10 ms·

Making Our Hearts Sing

62 points by chazeon 4y ago

benced 4y ago
Be interested in folks thoughts on the footnote. I’m assuming he’s wrong about the motive/conspiracy but right that DF links underperform on HN. Why would that be? > It sounds a bit conspirational, but for many years now it’s seemed clear to me that Hacker News has Daring Fireball in some sort of graylist. It’s not blacklisted, obviously, given the aforementioned two threads about yesterday’s piece, but nothing I write here ever gains any significant traction there. Ever. And the reason there are two threads for yesterday’s piece is that the first one disappeared from the home page soon after it was posted. I think? In this list of recent Hacker News threads for articles from DF, going back four months, only three have more than 10 comments — and two of those are the threads from yesterday. I don’t know who I pissed off there or why, but I’ve never seen an explanation for this.
- chazeon 4y ago
  Probably it is the title that makes these DF articles hard to stand out on HN. DF works better if you read each one of the articles and it is on an RSS reader grouped among Apple/Mac Bloggers.
- MBCook 4y ago
  To some degree I wonder if it’s because the titles don’t always make it clear what it’s about (which is a valid choice). So if you are just scanning the new list you might not realize it’s something interesting or well written. Sort of an SEO type thing. It’s not clear from the title here if this is even about something tech related at all. I think the other issue (total guess on my part) is a lot of people hate Apple and enough know Daring Fireball is a “pro-Apple fanboy” site and just reflexively flag it or something. Edit: I just realized one of the two threads he linked was flagged, so that fits. And while some titles are more abstract (without reading the article first) like this one others are perfectly clearly in the HN wheelhouse.
- amanzi 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - pohl 4y ago
    “Not in that headspace” sounds a lot like the asymmetry of empathy he mentioned in this article, which was an observation that resonated with me. (“…because they don’t perceive it…”)
  - spiralganglion 4y ago
    And yet posts from marco.org or other Apple pundits often do numbers.
    - amanzi 4y ago
      I don't have anything against Apple pundits - I enjoy Marco's posts and will often go to his Twitter to see his views on an Apple announcement. But Gruber is beyond just a pundit.
      - reshlo 4y ago
        There are very few similarly well known people who offer more frequent or more constructive criticism of Apple than Gruber does.
  - scvbrent 4y ago
    So you flag an article based on your presumption of bias without actually reading and considering if that is true or not? Seems suspicious... and would confirm his theory.
    - drewbeck 4y ago
      Also a ton of successful HN posts are articles that are largely opinion, so this as a general rubric doesn't really hold.
    - amanzi 4y ago
      Sorry, no - I do read the articles (I always read articles before voting). But I only upvote articles that I consider to be high quality, and I tend to flag articles that I believe are low quality.
- neallindsay 4y ago
  I just looked and the post from yesterday now says [flagged]. I don't really know what that means in a HN context.
- mdemare 4y ago
  Currently this submission, after 10 hours, is on position 160, with 37 upvotes and 12 comments. On position 161, there's an article submitted 13 hours ago with 4 upvotes and 2 comments. On position 69, there's another article submitted 10 hours ago, with just 11 upvotes and 3 comments. My hypothesis is that daring fireball articles get flagged, regardless of their content.
  - jgruber 4y ago
    Exactly the sort of thing I’ve noticed. Thanks much for quantifying it, though.
  - ubermonkey 4y ago
    That’s weird and freakish. Can someone official confirm or deny?
h4vot 4y ago
I do like John, and his podcasts - but every now and then after an extra sappy dose of one eyed Apple BS I need to take a break for a little while. HN audience may have a similar reaction.
- criddell 4y ago
  This place would be a lot duller if we asked passionate users of technology to stick to the facts.
burlesona 4y ago
I’ve noticed that DF articles rarely appear on HN as well. In addition to the title issue mentioned by others, I wonder if this is because the linked-list posts with his comments (ie most posts) aren’t favored on HN (recommendation is to link to the original article right?).
boardwaalk 4y ago
A lot of people see software as a list of features, hardware as a list of specs. But when you think about how much time we spend with these things, maybe they just aren’t that utilitarian. We think of buildings not just as volumes of conditioned air — but also as something architected, as something that can have a profound effect on how you feel, something that can have value in itself (historical buildings and such).
- criddell 4y ago
  I’ve thought about this a little too. I’m a Windows developer and it’s depressing to think about how many Windows users there are and, aside from games, how few great new user applications come out. The Mac may not be thriving, but that seems to be where interesting new stuff comes out. I’ve come to believe that raw market size doesn’t matter. For many, computers are about as interesting as dishwashers. What a platform needs are passionate users.
  - keytarsolo 4y ago
    I think money is the big driver. Tapbots is a company that wants to make nice looking software which they sell for money. On iOS and macOS, this is possible. On Android it’s a lot harder to make money at all, and on Windows the big money is in corporate software where feature spreadsheets trump UX every time. Obviously there are some nice apps with nice UX on Windows and Android, but devs self sort in a way because it’s no secret that the best place to profit from good UX is iOS.
m3kw9 4y ago
A life long iOS user using an android would find the experience infuriating at least
projektfu 4y ago
My experience as someone who used Android, then iPhone for a few years, and am now back to Android, is that the quality of many apps is identical or better on Android, at least for apps that I use every day. There is also F-Droid, where many apps are low quality but I'll have the opportunity to look at the source code, which is usually not the case on the iPhone. The iPhone apps are all geared toward monetization now. If you want a decent podcast player, you're expected to pay for it, either with dollars or ad eyeballs. Nobody really wants to collaborate on an iOS app. Android has a few options for community-supported players that are quite good. A lot of iPhone apps want a monthly subscription even if they don't really improve. The ones that ask for one-time payments tend to hide their features in multiple one-time payments. Many smaller apps don't have the residuals that keep their developer interested. They never end in an open source state where someone who cares could take them over, so eventually your investment goes to zero. In this, it's a lot like Windows, except on Windows you can usually rely on backwards compatibility. Sometimes, using something that has been pushed out the door by a developer who needed to scratch an itch and doesn't care about the aesthetics is preferable to a gorgeous app that lost compatibility at iOS 7, forcing you to buy a different app after an upgrade. I think, also, the reason why you see this explicit example of the mastodon app being superior, is because the people who care include designers who are willing to donate their time. They themselves use iPhones and don't care about making the Android version because it's not their itch to scratch. That's fine, but it is a contrived example. Finally, show me the syncthing client that works well on iOS.
- keytarsolo 4y ago
  Of course it depends on your use case, but in my experience Android apps are much worse than what I can get on iOS. Here are a couple of examples of iOS which have (as far as I can find) nothing on Android that even comes close: Infuse (https://firecore.com/infuse https://firecore.com/infuse) - A really nice video play that handles loads of different backends. NetNewsWire - It's literally one of the examples from the article, but I like RSS and can't find anything as good as NetNewsWire on Android. Servercat (https://servercat.app https://servercat.app) - Just a nice way to monitor servers and run commands. Great for managing my Raspberry pi and other homebrew stuff Prologue (https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/prologue/id1459223267 https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/prologue/id1459223267) - An audiobook app that uses Plex as its backend. Elastic Drums (https://apps.apple.com/app/id817419955 https://apps.apple.com/app/id817419955) - A great iPad / iPhone drum machine that I use all the time for sketching out ideas. Smart Comic (https://smartcomicreader.com https://smartcomicreader.com) - An app for reading my DRM free comics that uses ML to zoom to individual panels in a way that is as good as the official Comixology app. These are just the apps that I use daily and have no Android peers. Not that no Android apps exist to watch Plex, or read comics. On Android the options are just worse. Usually free, but I'd rather pay for a good app than get a crappy one for free. I've got loads of complaints about Apple software, but 3rd party software on Apple platforms is really good.

62 points by chazeon 4y ago

Be interested in folks thoughts on the footnote. I’m assuming he’s wrong about the motive/conspiracy but right that DF links underperform on HN. Why would that be? > It sounds a bit conspirational, but for many years now it’s seemed clear to me that Hacker News has Daring Fireball in some sort of graylist. It’s not blacklisted, obviously, given the aforementioned two threads about yesterday’s piece, but nothing I write here ever gains any significant traction there. Ever. And the reason there are two threads for yesterday’s piece is that the first one disappeared from the home page soon after it was posted. I think? In this list of recent Hacker News threads for articles from DF, going back four months, only three have more than 10 comments — and two of those are the threads from yesterday. I don’t know who I pissed off there or why, but I’ve never seen an explanation for this.

chazeon 4y ago
Probably it is the title that makes these DF articles hard to stand out on HN. DF works better if you read each one of the articles and it is on an RSS reader grouped among Apple/Mac Bloggers.
MBCook 4y ago
To some degree I wonder if it’s because the titles don’t always make it clear what it’s about (which is a valid choice). So if you are just scanning the new list you might not realize it’s something interesting or well written. Sort of an SEO type thing. It’s not clear from the title here if this is even about something tech related at all. I think the other issue (total guess on my part) is a lot of people hate Apple and enough know Daring Fireball is a “pro-Apple fanboy” site and just reflexively flag it or something. Edit: I just realized one of the two threads he linked was flagged, so that fits. And while some titles are more abstract (without reading the article first) like this one others are perfectly clearly in the HN wheelhouse.
amanzi 4y ago
[flagged]
- pohl 4y ago
  “Not in that headspace” sounds a lot like the asymmetry of empathy he mentioned in this article, which was an observation that resonated with me. (“…because they don’t perceive it…”)
- spiralganglion 4y ago
  And yet posts from marco.org or other Apple pundits often do numbers.
  - amanzi 4y ago
    I don't have anything against Apple pundits - I enjoy Marco's posts and will often go to his Twitter to see his views on an Apple announcement. But Gruber is beyond just a pundit.
    - reshlo 4y ago
      There are very few similarly well known people who offer more frequent or more constructive criticism of Apple than Gruber does.
- scvbrent 4y ago
  So you flag an article based on your presumption of bias without actually reading and considering if that is true or not? Seems suspicious... and would confirm his theory.
  - drewbeck 4y ago
    Also a ton of successful HN posts are articles that are largely opinion, so this as a general rubric doesn't really hold.
  - amanzi 4y ago
    Sorry, no - I do read the articles (I always read articles before voting). But I only upvote articles that I consider to be high quality, and I tend to flag articles that I believe are low quality.
neallindsay 4y ago
I just looked and the post from yesterday now says [flagged]. I don't really know what that means in a HN context.
mdemare 4y ago
Currently this submission, after 10 hours, is on position 160, with 37 upvotes and 12 comments. On position 161, there's an article submitted 13 hours ago with 4 upvotes and 2 comments. On position 69, there's another article submitted 10 hours ago, with just 11 upvotes and 3 comments. My hypothesis is that daring fireball articles get flagged, regardless of their content.
- jgruber 4y ago
  Exactly the sort of thing I’ve noticed. Thanks much for quantifying it, though.
- ubermonkey 4y ago
  That’s weird and freakish. Can someone official confirm or deny?

h4vot 4y ago

I do like John, and his podcasts - but every now and then after an extra sappy dose of one eyed Apple BS I need to take a break for a little while. HN audience may have a similar reaction.

criddell 4y ago
This place would be a lot duller if we asked passionate users of technology to stick to the facts.

burlesona 4y ago

I’ve noticed that DF articles rarely appear on HN as well. In addition to the title issue mentioned by others, I wonder if this is because the linked-list posts with his comments (ie most posts) aren’t favored on HN (recommendation is to link to the original article right?).

boardwaalk 4y ago

A lot of people see software as a list of features, hardware as a list of specs. But when you think about how much time we spend with these things, maybe they just aren’t that utilitarian. We think of buildings not just as volumes of conditioned air — but also as something architected, as something that can have a profound effect on how you feel, something that can have value in itself (historical buildings and such).

criddell 4y ago
I’ve thought about this a little too. I’m a Windows developer and it’s depressing to think about how many Windows users there are and, aside from games, how few great new user applications come out. The Mac may not be thriving, but that seems to be where interesting new stuff comes out. I’ve come to believe that raw market size doesn’t matter. For many, computers are about as interesting as dishwashers. What a platform needs are passionate users.
- keytarsolo 4y ago
  I think money is the big driver. Tapbots is a company that wants to make nice looking software which they sell for money. On iOS and macOS, this is possible. On Android it’s a lot harder to make money at all, and on Windows the big money is in corporate software where feature spreadsheets trump UX every time. Obviously there are some nice apps with nice UX on Windows and Android, but devs self sort in a way because it’s no secret that the best place to profit from good UX is iOS.

m3kw9 4y ago

A life long iOS user using an android would find the experience infuriating at least

projektfu 4y ago

My experience as someone who used Android, then iPhone for a few years, and am now back to Android, is that the quality of many apps is identical or better on Android, at least for apps that I use every day. There is also F-Droid, where many apps are low quality but I'll have the opportunity to look at the source code, which is usually not the case on the iPhone. The iPhone apps are all geared toward monetization now. If you want a decent podcast player, you're expected to pay for it, either with dollars or ad eyeballs. Nobody really wants to collaborate on an iOS app. Android has a few options for community-supported players that are quite good. A lot of iPhone apps want a monthly subscription even if they don't really improve. The ones that ask for one-time payments tend to hide their features in multiple one-time payments. Many smaller apps don't have the residuals that keep their developer interested. They never end in an open source state where someone who cares could take them over, so eventually your investment goes to zero. In this, it's a lot like Windows, except on Windows you can usually rely on backwards compatibility. Sometimes, using something that has been pushed out the door by a developer who needed to scratch an itch and doesn't care about the aesthetics is preferable to a gorgeous app that lost compatibility at iOS 7, forcing you to buy a different app after an upgrade. I think, also, the reason why you see this explicit example of the mastodon app being superior, is because the people who care include designers who are willing to donate their time. They themselves use iPhones and don't care about making the Android version because it's not their itch to scratch. That's fine, but it is a contrived example. Finally, show me the syncthing client that works well on iOS.

keytarsolo 4y ago
Of course it depends on your use case, but in my experience Android apps are much worse than what I can get on iOS. Here are a couple of examples of iOS which have (as far as I can find) nothing on Android that even comes close: Infuse (https://firecore.com/infuse https://firecore.com/infuse) - A really nice video play that handles loads of different backends. NetNewsWire - It's literally one of the examples from the article, but I like RSS and can't find anything as good as NetNewsWire on Android. Servercat (https://servercat.app https://servercat.app) - Just a nice way to monitor servers and run commands. Great for managing my Raspberry pi and other homebrew stuff Prologue (https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/prologue/id1459223267 https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/prologue/id1459223267) - An audiobook app that uses Plex as its backend. Elastic Drums (https://apps.apple.com/app/id817419955 https://apps.apple.com/app/id817419955) - A great iPad / iPhone drum machine that I use all the time for sketching out ideas. Smart Comic (https://smartcomicreader.com https://smartcomicreader.com) - An app for reading my DRM free comics that uses ML to zoom to individual panels in a way that is as good as the official Comixology app. These are just the apps that I use daily and have no Android peers. Not that no Android apps exist to watch Plex, or read comics. On Android the options are just worse. Usually free, but I'd rather pay for a good app than get a crappy one for free. I've got loads of complaints about Apple software, but 3rd party software on Apple platforms is really good.