8 ms·

I think majority of jobs are low wage with no future prospects, and quite a lot of jobs have bosses or—worse—shareholders taking away the profits for their own

I think majority of jobs are low wage with no future prospects, and quite a lot of jobs have bosses or—worse—shareholders taking away the profits for their own private climate devastating opulence. Why would you work hard for these people? Why would you do anything more than the absolute minimum? I think this supposed American dream was only ever a ruse, a Hollywood propaganda. If it ever existed it only applied to a certain demographic and was never actually a possibility for majority of Americans. In the past decades (since the late 70s at least) Hollywood has slowed down it’s propaganda machine in favor of more independent film making (or the propaganda has shifted elsewhere; mainly the military during this century), so the illusion of the American dream is slowly but surely wearing off. In the meantime our jobs suck just as much as before, possibly even more, and are paying even less.

Aeolun 4y ago
> Why would you do anything more than the absolute minimum? For personal satisfaction? You are going to be there anyway, you might as well do a good job. I’m not saying to put in more hours than contracted, but those hours should be high quality (or as high as you can make them, under the circumstances).
- TurkTurkleton 4y ago
  Personal satisfaction, like exposure, is not legal tender.
  - gorgoiler 4y ago
    While this is obviously true, the long term effects of a positive, growth mindset are more likely to have an effect on your net worth than if you cannot or will not take pride in working hard and doing the best job you possibly can.
    - runarberg 4y ago
      This reads like its from a questionable research paper funded by an HR group with the sole aim of gaslighting workers into working harder for less money. I’m not buying it.
      - gorgoiler 4y ago
        It is certainly questionable research, but from the lived experience of a superannuated engineer (me!) not an HR group. As for gaslighting? Well, my aim is indeed to make you work harder. Not only that, but for you to have more money not less. At all levels — our society, the sector in which we work, our businesses as a whole and each team in those businesses — your success has a positive effect on everyone else as well as on you and part of that success will come as “legal tender”. The flip side is that if we all drag our heels, everyone is worse off. I have sadly met many people in my life who seem to want everyone else to be as miserable as they are. (Your comment way up this thread talks about jobs with low wages with no future prospects. You make a good point and those jobs really are different — one is unlikely to innovate oneself to greater wealth as a coal miner. Lots of us here on HN don’t fall into this category of work though, and yet, alas, I see the mindset of the low pay / low prospects worker more and more in the tech sector.)
        runarberg 4y ago
        If your boss or—worse—your shareholders are making significant money from your work, and spending it on furthering the climate disaster (like most bosses of large companies do) then I would argue that, no, your work is actually making the world a worse place. This wealth gap that keeps increasing is not good for anyone (except for bosses) and it is literally destroying our climate, even if it makes your personal net worth increase, that isn’t good enough if it increases your boss’ net worth 100x that.
        girvo 4y ago
        Working smarter and for better companies/people is what got me more money, not working harder
        4y ago
    - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
      This is not correct for a lot of jobs. For people with white-collar 'careers', maybe. But not for many other people.
    - mcv 4y ago
      Keep in mind that this "positive, growth mindset" means quitting your job for a better one if you're not going to get promoted in the job that you have. That, or starting your own business. Many companies have made it abundantly clear that there's no positive growth inside their company for ordinary workers. Only for the wallets of the managers and shareholders.
- behringer 4y ago
  I earn my paycheck and no more. When I work on my personal pet projects, that's where the passion and personal satisfaction is. You want excellence? Treat me excellently and you'll get it.
- mordae 4y ago
  If the tasks or people suck, giving shit is tiresome. Way better to do half assed job and spare some mental energy to use on your terms in the evening.
- MomoXenosaga 4y ago
  No that's not how it works unfortunately. You are supposed to do overtime and answer emails on your weekends. Fuck that.
EGreg 4y ago
American Dream made sense when one person in the family worked for corporations. When everyone flooded the labor market, and automation made workers much more productive, wages got depressed. Now the American dream is propaganda for getting 30 year mortgages from banks and working to pay off the money you rented.

Aeolun 4y ago

> Why would you do anything more than the absolute minimum? For personal satisfaction? You are going to be there anyway, you might as well do a good job. I’m not saying to put in more hours than contracted, but those hours should be high quality (or as high as you can make them, under the circumstances).

TurkTurkleton 4y ago
Personal satisfaction, like exposure, is not legal tender.
- gorgoiler 4y ago
  While this is obviously true, the long term effects of a positive, growth mindset are more likely to have an effect on your net worth than if you cannot or will not take pride in working hard and doing the best job you possibly can.
  - runarberg 4y ago
    This reads like its from a questionable research paper funded by an HR group with the sole aim of gaslighting workers into working harder for less money. I’m not buying it.
    - gorgoiler 4y ago
      It is certainly questionable research, but from the lived experience of a superannuated engineer (me!) not an HR group. As for gaslighting? Well, my aim is indeed to make you work harder. Not only that, but for you to have more money not less. At all levels — our society, the sector in which we work, our businesses as a whole and each team in those businesses — your success has a positive effect on everyone else as well as on you and part of that success will come as “legal tender”. The flip side is that if we all drag our heels, everyone is worse off. I have sadly met many people in my life who seem to want everyone else to be as miserable as they are. (Your comment way up this thread talks about jobs with low wages with no future prospects. You make a good point and those jobs really are different — one is unlikely to innovate oneself to greater wealth as a coal miner. Lots of us here on HN don’t fall into this category of work though, and yet, alas, I see the mindset of the low pay / low prospects worker more and more in the tech sector.)
      - runarberg 4y ago
        If your boss or—worse—your shareholders are making significant money from your work, and spending it on furthering the climate disaster (like most bosses of large companies do) then I would argue that, no, your work is actually making the world a worse place. This wealth gap that keeps increasing is not good for anyone (except for bosses) and it is literally destroying our climate, even if it makes your personal net worth increase, that isn’t good enough if it increases your boss’ net worth 100x that.
      - girvo 4y ago
        Working smarter and for better companies/people is what got me more money, not working harder
        4y ago
  - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
    This is not correct for a lot of jobs. For people with white-collar 'careers', maybe. But not for many other people.
  - mcv 4y ago
    Keep in mind that this "positive, growth mindset" means quitting your job for a better one if you're not going to get promoted in the job that you have. That, or starting your own business. Many companies have made it abundantly clear that there's no positive growth inside their company for ordinary workers. Only for the wallets of the managers and shareholders.
behringer 4y ago
I earn my paycheck and no more. When I work on my personal pet projects, that's where the passion and personal satisfaction is. You want excellence? Treat me excellently and you'll get it.
mordae 4y ago
If the tasks or people suck, giving shit is tiresome. Way better to do half assed job and spare some mental energy to use on your terms in the evening.
MomoXenosaga 4y ago
No that's not how it works unfortunately. You are supposed to do overtime and answer emails on your weekends. Fuck that.

EGreg 4y ago

American Dream made sense when one person in the family worked for corporations. When everyone flooded the labor market, and automation made workers much more productive, wages got depressed. Now the American dream is propaganda for getting 30 year mortgages from banks and working to pay off the money you rented.