5 ms·

I don’t mean to be negative, but most people certainly don’t try their best. Many are only working for the paycheck and don’t attach their sense of success to t

I don’t mean to be negative, but most people certainly don’t try their best. Many are only working for the paycheck and don’t attach their sense of success to their professional output.

americanmotto 4y ago
Agree. I've said for ~10 years now, that it seems the American Dream has transitioned from "Anything is possible as long as you work hard enough." to "Do as little as work possible to get the same paycheck." Something has definitely changed in the culture.
- dbingham 4y ago
  What could have possibly changed in the last several decades that might have affected someone's willingness to give their job there all? https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ Sorry for the sarcasm, but it is very frustrating to see people standing around wondering at this change as if it's a moral failing when people have been pointing out for decades that those at the top broke the social contract and that there would eventually be consequences.
  - mcv 4y ago
    The moral failing is definitely in how corporations are lead and how work is rewarded. I don't blame anyone for not being passionate about a job that barely pays a living wage. In fact, I think it's incredibly harmful for a country when work is not properly rewarded.
  - eigilsagafos 4y ago
    I wonder if the tide will ever turn? That it would become a competitive advantage to build enterprises with values other than maximizing the returns to their shareholders.
- runarberg 4y ago
  I think majority of jobs are low wage with no future prospects, and quite a lot of jobs have bosses or—worse—shareholders taking away the profits for their own private climate devastating opulence. Why would you work hard for these people? Why would you do anything more than the absolute minimum? I think this supposed American dream was only ever a ruse, a Hollywood propaganda. If it ever existed it only applied to a certain demographic and was never actually a possibility for majority of Americans. In the past decades (since the late 70s at least) Hollywood has slowed down it’s propaganda machine in favor of more independent film making (or the propaganda has shifted elsewhere; mainly the military during this century), so the illusion of the American dream is slowly but surely wearing off. In the meantime our jobs suck just as much as before, possibly even more, and are paying even less.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    > Why would you do anything more than the absolute minimum? For personal satisfaction? You are going to be there anyway, you might as well do a good job. I’m not saying to put in more hours than contracted, but those hours should be high quality (or as high as you can make them, under the circumstances).
    - TurkTurkleton 4y ago
      Personal satisfaction, like exposure, is not legal tender.
      - gorgoiler 4y ago
        While this is obviously true, the long term effects of a positive, growth mindset are more likely to have an effect on your net worth than if you cannot or will not take pride in working hard and doing the best job you possibly can.
        runarberg 4y ago
        This reads like its from a questionable research paper funded by an HR group with the sole aim of gaslighting workers into working harder for less money. I’m not buying it.
- behringer 4y ago
  Sorry but this sort of drive is a two way street. If the company's not going to promote me and will drop me as soon as they've burned me out, I'm most definitely not going to "give my all" to the company. The company needs me, I don't need them for my self gratification. I just need a paycheck.
- girvo 4y ago
  Companies no longer reward loyalty or working hard on the whole, so I'm surprised that you are surprised. Those at the top reap entirely outsized rewards, the company does stock buy-backs, and the workers get table scraps. We're insulated somewhat from that in our industry, we're well compensated, but I don't blame others in other industries for responding to how companies focus their resources today.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  Executives from corporate America led by people like Welch treated workers like cogs, which eventually taught employees to treat employers transactionally.
- losteric 4y ago
  MBAs instead of promote-from-within. Bringing along egotistical bean-counter superiority with typically vastly inferior performance. Seeing this trend in big tech has me very bearish - the non-tech MBAs just can't execute on long-term big bets that require the deep understanding/cross-cutting coordination that comes with career insiders.
  - rocqua 4y ago
    Is the problem of outside MBAs their lack of deep understanding? Others here have argued that the promotion of outsiders erodes loyalty and passion of the workforce towards their jobs. I could imagine good outsiders who have the skills for long-term big bets are quite common. But then the erosion of the community inside the company could still foil such bets. As an aside, this alternative narrative seems more palatable to MBAs then your version. Hence it might be more easily accepted.
    - mordae 4y ago
      Actually, MBA schools actively teach people to be shitty to their employees and instill a sense of superiority. It's a scheme of sorts.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
whydoyoucare 4y ago
I don't think "working for a paycheck" necessarily implies one is not trying his/her best. Also the sense of success may not even depend on "success at work". Being successful and trying their best is far more nuanced than usually made out to be.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  This is one of the more excellent comments I’ve ever seen here. Thank you.
avgcorrection 4y ago
For sure. Whatever happened to hired guns putting their hearts and souls into maximizing profits for the shareholders? I mean, not to be negative or anything.
- MomoXenosaga 4y ago
  I know a Japanese expat who moved from America to Europe because he didn't want to work himself to death. There is more to life than career and money. Sure he earns less now but he actually has the opportunity to spend it!
dmatech 4y ago
It happens with a lot of people who get burned out and just want to put their kids through college. There's nothing inherently wrong with that outlook, and those people can do good work keeping the lights on. But if you're at all driven or ambitious, it can be seriously frustrating to work with (or especially for) someone like this.

I don’t mean to be negative, but most people certainly don’t try their best. Many are only working for the paycheck and don’t attach their sense of success to their professional output.

americanmotto 4y ago

Agree. I've said for ~10 years now, that it seems the American Dream has transitioned from "Anything is possible as long as you work hard enough." to "Do as little as work possible to get the same paycheck." Something has definitely changed in the culture.

dbingham 4y ago
What could have possibly changed in the last several decades that might have affected someone's willingness to give their job there all? https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ Sorry for the sarcasm, but it is very frustrating to see people standing around wondering at this change as if it's a moral failing when people have been pointing out for decades that those at the top broke the social contract and that there would eventually be consequences.
- mcv 4y ago
  The moral failing is definitely in how corporations are lead and how work is rewarded. I don't blame anyone for not being passionate about a job that barely pays a living wage. In fact, I think it's incredibly harmful for a country when work is not properly rewarded.
- eigilsagafos 4y ago
  I wonder if the tide will ever turn? That it would become a competitive advantage to build enterprises with values other than maximizing the returns to their shareholders.
runarberg 4y ago
I think majority of jobs are low wage with no future prospects, and quite a lot of jobs have bosses or—worse—shareholders taking away the profits for their own private climate devastating opulence. Why would you work hard for these people? Why would you do anything more than the absolute minimum? I think this supposed American dream was only ever a ruse, a Hollywood propaganda. If it ever existed it only applied to a certain demographic and was never actually a possibility for majority of Americans. In the past decades (since the late 70s at least) Hollywood has slowed down it’s propaganda machine in favor of more independent film making (or the propaganda has shifted elsewhere; mainly the military during this century), so the illusion of the American dream is slowly but surely wearing off. In the meantime our jobs suck just as much as before, possibly even more, and are paying even less.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  > Why would you do anything more than the absolute minimum? For personal satisfaction? You are going to be there anyway, you might as well do a good job. I’m not saying to put in more hours than contracted, but those hours should be high quality (or as high as you can make them, under the circumstances).
  - TurkTurkleton 4y ago
    Personal satisfaction, like exposure, is not legal tender.
    - gorgoiler 4y ago
      While this is obviously true, the long term effects of a positive, growth mindset are more likely to have an effect on your net worth than if you cannot or will not take pride in working hard and doing the best job you possibly can.
      - runarberg 4y ago
        This reads like its from a questionable research paper funded by an HR group with the sole aim of gaslighting workers into working harder for less money. I’m not buying it.
behringer 4y ago
Sorry but this sort of drive is a two way street. If the company's not going to promote me and will drop me as soon as they've burned me out, I'm most definitely not going to "give my all" to the company. The company needs me, I don't need them for my self gratification. I just need a paycheck.
girvo 4y ago
Companies no longer reward loyalty or working hard on the whole, so I'm surprised that you are surprised. Those at the top reap entirely outsized rewards, the company does stock buy-backs, and the workers get table scraps. We're insulated somewhat from that in our industry, we're well compensated, but I don't blame others in other industries for responding to how companies focus their resources today.
mensetmanusman 4y ago
Executives from corporate America led by people like Welch treated workers like cogs, which eventually taught employees to treat employers transactionally.
losteric 4y ago
MBAs instead of promote-from-within. Bringing along egotistical bean-counter superiority with typically vastly inferior performance. Seeing this trend in big tech has me very bearish - the non-tech MBAs just can't execute on long-term big bets that require the deep understanding/cross-cutting coordination that comes with career insiders.
- rocqua 4y ago
  Is the problem of outside MBAs their lack of deep understanding? Others here have argued that the promotion of outsiders erodes loyalty and passion of the workforce towards their jobs. I could imagine good outsiders who have the skills for long-term big bets are quite common. But then the erosion of the community inside the company could still foil such bets. As an aside, this alternative narrative seems more palatable to MBAs then your version. Hence it might be more easily accepted.
  - mordae 4y ago
    Actually, MBA schools actively teach people to be shitty to their employees and instill a sense of superiority. It's a scheme of sorts.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

whydoyoucare 4y ago

I don't think "working for a paycheck" necessarily implies one is not trying his/her best. Also the sense of success may not even depend on "success at work". Being successful and trying their best is far more nuanced than usually made out to be.

eyelidlessness 4y ago
This is one of the more excellent comments I’ve ever seen here. Thank you.

avgcorrection 4y ago

For sure. Whatever happened to hired guns putting their hearts and souls into maximizing profits for the shareholders? I mean, not to be negative or anything.

MomoXenosaga 4y ago
I know a Japanese expat who moved from America to Europe because he didn't want to work himself to death. There is more to life than career and money. Sure he earns less now but he actually has the opportunity to spend it!

dmatech 4y ago

It happens with a lot of people who get burned out and just want to put their kids through college. There's nothing inherently wrong with that outlook, and those people can do good work keeping the lights on. But if you're at all driven or ambitious, it can be seriously frustrating to work with (or especially for) someone like this.