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No. I'm a salaried employee. Marginal time/effort savings do not directly translate into more money for me. But the $20 charge hits my bank account today. Perha

by extr 4y ago

No. I'm a salaried employee. Marginal time/effort savings do not directly translate into more money for me. But the $20 charge hits my bank account today. Perhaps if I use it consistently enough and in smart enough ways I will be perceived to be a more valuable/productive employee, which might translate to a raise. But that's a lot of maybes. I'm sure it will get to that point eventually, but by then the value will be undeniable and my employer will pay for the subscription. Until then, I will continue to use the free version, or pay-per-use with the API, or just use google.

cutenewt 4y ago
Can you ask your boss to expense it?
- extr 4y ago
  Maybe! They already expense Copilot, so I don't think it would be too out of bounds. I haven't asked yet, considering this just came out today. I'm guessing they will allow it, the marginal ROI calculation actually makes sense from an employer perspective.
300bps 4y ago
No. I'm a salaried employee. Marginal time/effort savings do not directly translate into more money for me. I am also a salaried employee and if I can save a minute of work time that’s one less minute I have to work. I have a body of work I need to complete and sometimes that takes me 40 hours and sometimes much more. The only way I can think of that $20 per month for increased productivity doesn’t help is if your company’s metric of success is being present/working 8 hours per day.
- RussianCow 4y ago
  > The only way I can think of that $20 per month for increased productivity doesn’t help is if your company’s metric of success is being present/working 8 hours per day. You've just described most office jobs.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    The older I get the more I feel it doesn’t really matter. Somehow we’re all getting paid healthy salaries for playing office all day..
- fleddr 4y ago
  Most jobs require you to be available for 8 hours. So you can't work hyper productively and then quit for the day at 2PM. You need to show up for the 4PM meeting as well as the continuous storm of incoming chats. This is why productivity improvements feel so meh. For people that are hyper competitive and ambitious, it's a way to tackle more and bigger challenges. Fine. For others though, the benefits do not really materialize in meaningful ways. Maybe you can win some slack/recovery time, but it's not really truly free time. You're still working and on call. In fact, in quite a lot of teams being productive is actively punished. Say that in agile you do a great sprint, and execute 10 story points instead of the normal 5. Nice. Oh...so you can do 10? 10 it is then for all the future sprints. Without a pay increase, obviously.
  - 300bps 4y ago
    For people that are hyper competitive and ambitious, it's a way to tackle more and bigger challenges. Fine. I agree that hyper competitive and ambitious people might do this. I would add though that curious and passionate people will also do this. I'll be honest... if I weren't getting paid to be a software engineer I'd do it for free. Like I did when I was 13 years old with my 300 bps modem creating a BBS program. This leads me to do all kinds of crazy things like work 6 hours on a Saturday because I am quite simply fascinated about the level of engineering I can do to turn an 18 hour batch process into 4. It's been extremely lucrative for my career. I'm fortunate to work somewhere that is truly pay for performance. But not in a million years is that why I do it.
- pferde 4y ago
  You don't need to complete the work. Your employer needs you to complete the work. If your employer gives you tools that make you work less optimally, they get less optimal work in return.
  - kkfdkerpoe 4y ago
    Exactly. It's entirely employer's responsibility to provide tools and equipment for the work, except perhaps stuff that you can keep, like tables, chairs and screens for home office. Only freelancers/entrepreneurs should pay for something like ChatGPT with their own money.
therealdrag0 4y ago
If you outperform your peers and get a raise just 6 months sooner that pays for itself.
- thedorkknight 4y ago
  The odds that this will be the difference all other variables held the same strike me as unlikely. I've used it a lot for programming in my personal time and get where he's coming from. It's fun and cool but didn't spike my effectiveness at programming enough vs. just googling things that I'd expect it to be noticable when reviews come around
- dogma1138 4y ago
  Or as you used a non sanctioned tool in a corporate environment with murkiness around IP and copyright and quite likely exposed confidential information to a 3rd party you get disciplined or fired. And not for nothing you probably will have better luck scoring a promotion by spending $20 a month on doughnuts for the team than on ChatGPT.
  - therealdrag0 4y ago
    Yep sorry I wasn’t thinking of chatgpt specifically when I wrote that so much as AI assistants in general. Def everything you said need to be considered.
  - bb88 4y ago
    There's a lot of people who have cheated in life an not been punished for it. Many people just get promoted. If you're contracting agency, it could be in your explicitly laid out in the contract that you might use information from 3rd party sources such as Google, Stack Overflow, and yes ChatGPT.
  - peaslock 4y ago
    Not if you ask first.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
carlosjobim 4y ago
A cool trick is to go to system preferences and reduce cursor speed to the lowest possible. This way you make sure you're not working faster than what you're paid for.

by extr 4y ago

cutenewt 4y ago

Can you ask your boss to expense it?

extr 4y ago
Maybe! They already expense Copilot, so I don't think it would be too out of bounds. I haven't asked yet, considering this just came out today. I'm guessing they will allow it, the marginal ROI calculation actually makes sense from an employer perspective.

300bps 4y ago

No. I'm a salaried employee. Marginal time/effort savings do not directly translate into more money for me. I am also a salaried employee and if I can save a minute of work time that’s one less minute I have to work. I have a body of work I need to complete and sometimes that takes me 40 hours and sometimes much more. The only way I can think of that $20 per month for increased productivity doesn’t help is if your company’s metric of success is being present/working 8 hours per day.

RussianCow 4y ago
> The only way I can think of that $20 per month for increased productivity doesn’t help is if your company’s metric of success is being present/working 8 hours per day. You've just described most office jobs.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  The older I get the more I feel it doesn’t really matter. Somehow we’re all getting paid healthy salaries for playing office all day..
fleddr 4y ago
Most jobs require you to be available for 8 hours. So you can't work hyper productively and then quit for the day at 2PM. You need to show up for the 4PM meeting as well as the continuous storm of incoming chats. This is why productivity improvements feel so meh. For people that are hyper competitive and ambitious, it's a way to tackle more and bigger challenges. Fine. For others though, the benefits do not really materialize in meaningful ways. Maybe you can win some slack/recovery time, but it's not really truly free time. You're still working and on call. In fact, in quite a lot of teams being productive is actively punished. Say that in agile you do a great sprint, and execute 10 story points instead of the normal 5. Nice. Oh...so you can do 10? 10 it is then for all the future sprints. Without a pay increase, obviously.
- 300bps 4y ago
  For people that are hyper competitive and ambitious, it's a way to tackle more and bigger challenges. Fine. I agree that hyper competitive and ambitious people might do this. I would add though that curious and passionate people will also do this. I'll be honest... if I weren't getting paid to be a software engineer I'd do it for free. Like I did when I was 13 years old with my 300 bps modem creating a BBS program. This leads me to do all kinds of crazy things like work 6 hours on a Saturday because I am quite simply fascinated about the level of engineering I can do to turn an 18 hour batch process into 4. It's been extremely lucrative for my career. I'm fortunate to work somewhere that is truly pay for performance. But not in a million years is that why I do it.
pferde 4y ago
You don't need to complete the work. Your employer needs you to complete the work. If your employer gives you tools that make you work less optimally, they get less optimal work in return.
- kkfdkerpoe 4y ago
  Exactly. It's entirely employer's responsibility to provide tools and equipment for the work, except perhaps stuff that you can keep, like tables, chairs and screens for home office. Only freelancers/entrepreneurs should pay for something like ChatGPT with their own money.

therealdrag0 4y ago

If you outperform your peers and get a raise just 6 months sooner that pays for itself.

thedorkknight 4y ago
The odds that this will be the difference all other variables held the same strike me as unlikely. I've used it a lot for programming in my personal time and get where he's coming from. It's fun and cool but didn't spike my effectiveness at programming enough vs. just googling things that I'd expect it to be noticable when reviews come around
dogma1138 4y ago
Or as you used a non sanctioned tool in a corporate environment with murkiness around IP and copyright and quite likely exposed confidential information to a 3rd party you get disciplined or fired. And not for nothing you probably will have better luck scoring a promotion by spending $20 a month on doughnuts for the team than on ChatGPT.
- therealdrag0 4y ago
  Yep sorry I wasn’t thinking of chatgpt specifically when I wrote that so much as AI assistants in general. Def everything you said need to be considered.
- bb88 4y ago
  There's a lot of people who have cheated in life an not been punished for it. Many people just get promoted. If you're contracting agency, it could be in your explicitly laid out in the contract that you might use information from 3rd party sources such as Google, Stack Overflow, and yes ChatGPT.
- peaslock 4y ago
  Not if you ask first.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

carlosjobim 4y ago

A cool trick is to go to system preferences and reduce cursor speed to the lowest possible. This way you make sure you're not working faster than what you're paid for.