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I think you don’t understand the what constitutes flawed logic. If gave a counterexample to the statement: Everyone can learn college algebra. Therefore this s

I think you don’t understand the what constitutes flawed logic. If gave a counterexample to the statement: Everyone can learn college algebra. Therefore this statement is not true. We are then left we needing to modify the statement. What is true is the following: Some people, but not everyone, can learn college algebra. This is an uncomfortable statement for a lot of people because the inevitable follow up is: Who can and who can’t learn college algebra?. Relatedly, one must confront the idea that not everyone is college material. Maybe too many people are going to college and this is why so many in college are struggling in basic courses. I could go on. Your post appears naive in that you don’t seem to have thought through the implications of the idea that not everyone can learn college algebra.

lern_too_spel 4y ago
I would say that anybody without an intellectual disability can learn college algebra. There is a lack of motivation and a lack of training that prevents people from succeeding.
- naasking 4y ago
  > I would say that anybody without an intellectual disability can learn college algebra. I think that's a stretch, unless you expand the meaning of "intellectual disability". I would agree that considerably more people can succeed than currently do because effort can make up for a lot, but that's a different claim. People have different working memory capacity, different abilities to reason deductively and considerably more differences on various other metrics of cognitive performance. There are as many dimensions to cognitive performance as there are ways to measure athletic performance, and people fall on very different parts of this spectrum. With significant effort over time, I can make up for athletic deficiencies and become a pretty good basketball player, but being 5'9" I almost certainly would never be able to make a college basketball team let alone the NBA. I'm not sure why this same logic applied to cognitive abilities is so controversial.
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    > I think that's a stretch Not at all. In my experience, many people of mediocre intelligence but a background that has sufficient education think they're geniuses. The variability in intelligence achievable by tutoring vastly exceeds the difference in their intelligence vs. that of the average inner-city high school dropout without a disability. > People have different working memory capacity Multiple studies have shown how this is easy to train. > different abilities to reason deductively This is also very easy to train by example. > I almost certainly would never be able to make a college basketball team let alone the NBA Being able to do college algebra isn't equivalent to making the NBA, which means being in the top fraction of a percent in basketball ability. Being able to do college algebra is equivalent to being able to dribble.
    - naasking 4y ago
      > Multiple studies have shown how this is easy to train. Running ability is also easy to train, that doesn't mean everyone can run a marathon. Some people have flat feet or poorly proportioned limbs unsuited to long-term running. These aren't disabilities preventing them partaking in such activities, but nevertheless limits their potential. > Being able to do college algebra is equivalent to being able to dribble. No, it's being able to at least dunk. Again, a common skill but not one everyone can achieve.
      - lern_too_spel 4y ago
        > Running ability is also easy to train, that doesn't mean everyone can run a marathon. Everybody without a disability can run a 5k. High schools used to require students to do a mile run to pass physical education. > Some people have flat feet or poorly proportioned limbs unsuited to long-term running. And some people have microencephaly. We're not talking about outliers. We're talking about the vast majority of people. > No, it's being able to at least dunk. Look, you're not special for being able to learn college algebra. 95% of Koreans and Singaporeans can do it today, but this wasn't the case 60 years ago. It just requires a basic level of education.
siva7 4y ago
You have defined a too narrow definition of "flawed logic" in order to make a counterargument which still doesn't defy the argument the original comment has made. Then you make a baseless assumption in your last sentence that the commenter has not thought through the implications of the idea that not everyone can learn college algebra. Your writing is also honestly a bit difficult to understand so i assume you're learning English.
- syzarian 4y ago
  I think you don’t understand what assumption means. I made no assumption in my last sentence. I wrote how your post appears. This is an opinion of mine. This ought to have been clear because I used appears and don’t seem. The reason I phrased things the way I did is precisely because I was not making an assumption. You might be an expert on this topic. I don’t know your background. I was telling you how your post came across to me. What is funny and ironic is that you falsely accuse me of making a baseless assumption and then in the next sentence explicitly say you are assuming I’m learning English. I think it’s clear that I’m not learning English.
- naasking 4y ago
  > Your writing is also honestly a bit difficult to understand so i assume you're learning English. His argument seemed like a pretty straightforward logical deduction to me. If his argument doesn't refute the claim that everyone can learn college algebra, then you must have some unusual definition for one or more of "everyone", "learn" and "college algebra".
imtringued 4y ago
>Your post appears naive in that you don’t seem to have thought through the implications of the idea that not everyone can learn college algebra. It is naive in the sense in that it actively tries to discourage people from trying and learning including the ones who can because they will have this brain virus implanted into their minds that they can't do something because of some unchangeable factor and then turn the mind virus into reality where they are unable to perform which then further tells them that they can't perform because they aren't smart enough. It is basically the equivalent of pulling up the ladder under the pretense of avoiding injury in case someone falls. You can tell anyone that they aren't smart enough and tell them to not do something but only people who try and succeed can disprove them. So you have this constant cheap troll attack about people talking how you can't do things and then you must put in the expensive effort to disprove them which they can only do in a few disciplines.
- naasking 4y ago
  > It is naive in the sense in that it actively tries to discourage people from trying and learning including the ones who can because they will have this brain virus implanted into their minds that they can't do something because of some unchangeable factor No one's discouraging anything. Differences in cognitive abilities should be no more surprising than differences in ability to jump and run, thus resulting in differences in one's ability to be a professional basketball player. It is simply a fact that most people cannot play in the college level basketball, let alone the NBA. This should not be surprising, nor does this fact discourage people from playing basketball causally for fun or fitness. I'm not sure why this exact same argument would suddenly be discouraging when applied to cognitive activities.

lern_too_spel 4y ago

I would say that anybody without an intellectual disability can learn college algebra. There is a lack of motivation and a lack of training that prevents people from succeeding.

naasking 4y ago
> I would say that anybody without an intellectual disability can learn college algebra. I think that's a stretch, unless you expand the meaning of "intellectual disability". I would agree that considerably more people can succeed than currently do because effort can make up for a lot, but that's a different claim. People have different working memory capacity, different abilities to reason deductively and considerably more differences on various other metrics of cognitive performance. There are as many dimensions to cognitive performance as there are ways to measure athletic performance, and people fall on very different parts of this spectrum. With significant effort over time, I can make up for athletic deficiencies and become a pretty good basketball player, but being 5'9" I almost certainly would never be able to make a college basketball team let alone the NBA. I'm not sure why this same logic applied to cognitive abilities is so controversial.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  > I think that's a stretch Not at all. In my experience, many people of mediocre intelligence but a background that has sufficient education think they're geniuses. The variability in intelligence achievable by tutoring vastly exceeds the difference in their intelligence vs. that of the average inner-city high school dropout without a disability. > People have different working memory capacity Multiple studies have shown how this is easy to train. > different abilities to reason deductively This is also very easy to train by example. > I almost certainly would never be able to make a college basketball team let alone the NBA Being able to do college algebra isn't equivalent to making the NBA, which means being in the top fraction of a percent in basketball ability. Being able to do college algebra is equivalent to being able to dribble.
  - naasking 4y ago
    > Multiple studies have shown how this is easy to train. Running ability is also easy to train, that doesn't mean everyone can run a marathon. Some people have flat feet or poorly proportioned limbs unsuited to long-term running. These aren't disabilities preventing them partaking in such activities, but nevertheless limits their potential. > Being able to do college algebra is equivalent to being able to dribble. No, it's being able to at least dunk. Again, a common skill but not one everyone can achieve.
    - lern_too_spel 4y ago
      > Running ability is also easy to train, that doesn't mean everyone can run a marathon. Everybody without a disability can run a 5k. High schools used to require students to do a mile run to pass physical education. > Some people have flat feet or poorly proportioned limbs unsuited to long-term running. And some people have microencephaly. We're not talking about outliers. We're talking about the vast majority of people. > No, it's being able to at least dunk. Look, you're not special for being able to learn college algebra. 95% of Koreans and Singaporeans can do it today, but this wasn't the case 60 years ago. It just requires a basic level of education.

siva7 4y ago

You have defined a too narrow definition of "flawed logic" in order to make a counterargument which still doesn't defy the argument the original comment has made. Then you make a baseless assumption in your last sentence that the commenter has not thought through the implications of the idea that not everyone can learn college algebra. Your writing is also honestly a bit difficult to understand so i assume you're learning English.

syzarian 4y ago
I think you don’t understand what assumption means. I made no assumption in my last sentence. I wrote how your post appears. This is an opinion of mine. This ought to have been clear because I used appears and don’t seem. The reason I phrased things the way I did is precisely because I was not making an assumption. You might be an expert on this topic. I don’t know your background. I was telling you how your post came across to me. What is funny and ironic is that you falsely accuse me of making a baseless assumption and then in the next sentence explicitly say you are assuming I’m learning English. I think it’s clear that I’m not learning English.
naasking 4y ago
> Your writing is also honestly a bit difficult to understand so i assume you're learning English. His argument seemed like a pretty straightforward logical deduction to me. If his argument doesn't refute the claim that everyone can learn college algebra, then you must have some unusual definition for one or more of "everyone", "learn" and "college algebra".

imtringued 4y ago

>Your post appears naive in that you don’t seem to have thought through the implications of the idea that not everyone can learn college algebra. It is naive in the sense in that it actively tries to discourage people from trying and learning including the ones who can because they will have this brain virus implanted into their minds that they can't do something because of some unchangeable factor and then turn the mind virus into reality where they are unable to perform which then further tells them that they can't perform because they aren't smart enough. It is basically the equivalent of pulling up the ladder under the pretense of avoiding injury in case someone falls. You can tell anyone that they aren't smart enough and tell them to not do something but only people who try and succeed can disprove them. So you have this constant cheap troll attack about people talking how you can't do things and then you must put in the expensive effort to disprove them which they can only do in a few disciplines.

naasking 4y ago
> It is naive in the sense in that it actively tries to discourage people from trying and learning including the ones who can because they will have this brain virus implanted into their minds that they can't do something because of some unchangeable factor No one's discouraging anything. Differences in cognitive abilities should be no more surprising than differences in ability to jump and run, thus resulting in differences in one's ability to be a professional basketball player. It is simply a fact that most people cannot play in the college level basketball, let alone the NBA. This should not be surprising, nor does this fact discourage people from playing basketball causally for fun or fitness. I'm not sure why this exact same argument would suddenly be discouraging when applied to cognitive activities.