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These decline stories are universal, and probably no more true than 400 years ago: I am French and live in Hong Kong, do you think decline is not what everyone

by xwolfi 4y ago

These decline stories are universal, and probably no more true than 400 years ago: I am French and live in Hong Kong, do you think decline is not what everyone is talking about in BOTH places ? What is a place not in decline in the eyes of its inhabitants ? It says more about how we view the past than how the present is: we remember only the glorious good times, and forget nobody could read 200 years ago, or nobody could eat 400 years ago. They all said they were in decline, the values of their grandfathers diluted by a constant change. But while I sit on my toilets, on the 44th floor of my hyper tower, writing to americans in a language nobody in my ascending family can speak, before tucking my trilingual kid to bed, well, I think the decline isn't so bad, if you zoom out a few decades.

api 4y ago
I have felt like a contrarian for a while for not thinking the US (or the West generally) is in decline. Here’s a random example: https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/nj3z7ieVrCcgyQkq6myNZ.jpg https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/nj3z7ieVrCcgyQkq6myNZ.jpg Doesn’t look like decline to me. I could cite dozens more examples and not just around technology. Russia is a good example of a nation in decline: hemorrhaging young people, horrible corruption, cynicism, delusional leaders, and the use of imperial war and dramatic ideology to try to paper over it all. We do have a lot of dumb problems like a homelessness epidemic that are due more to lack of political will than inability to fix them. Some are also due to the high priority we place on individual freedom. We’d rather have freedom from detention and to move about than round up the homeless and force them into institutions. We’d rather have shootings than remove the individual right to bear arms. We’d rather have strong property rights than eminent domain people to build infrastructure. Etc.
- lmm 4y ago
  > Here’s a random example: Hardly "random". > hemorrhaging young people, horrible corruption, cynicism, delusional leaders, and the use of imperial war and dramatic ideology to try to paper over it all. So which of those is missing from the US? I see fewer and fewer young people, the corruption may not be at the level of handing over banknotes but the distrust is just as real, and everything else on your list is much th esame.
Mezzie 4y ago
I don't think it's bad in the long run either. I think sometimes we need to get rid of old things to make way for new things. It still kind of sucks for those of us who live through it, though. A lot of my frustration is with the current system's inertia as the current decaying institutions do their best to keep alternatives from taking root so all we can do is wait until they're finally weak enough to be ignored. In the meantime, what should we do? I can only speak to the American (and somewhat the Canadian) situation. I don't know what on the ground sentiment looks like in France or Hong Kong.

by xwolfi 4y ago

api 4y ago

I have felt like a contrarian for a while for not thinking the US (or the West generally) is in decline. Here’s a random example: https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/nj3z7ieVrCcgyQkq6myNZ.jpg https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/nj3z7ieVrCcgyQkq6myNZ.jpg Doesn’t look like decline to me. I could cite dozens more examples and not just around technology. Russia is a good example of a nation in decline: hemorrhaging young people, horrible corruption, cynicism, delusional leaders, and the use of imperial war and dramatic ideology to try to paper over it all. We do have a lot of dumb problems like a homelessness epidemic that are due more to lack of political will than inability to fix them. Some are also due to the high priority we place on individual freedom. We’d rather have freedom from detention and to move about than round up the homeless and force them into institutions. We’d rather have shootings than remove the individual right to bear arms. We’d rather have strong property rights than eminent domain people to build infrastructure. Etc.

lmm 4y ago
> Here’s a random example: Hardly "random". > hemorrhaging young people, horrible corruption, cynicism, delusional leaders, and the use of imperial war and dramatic ideology to try to paper over it all. So which of those is missing from the US? I see fewer and fewer young people, the corruption may not be at the level of handing over banknotes but the distrust is just as real, and everything else on your list is much th esame.

Mezzie 4y ago

I don't think it's bad in the long run either. I think sometimes we need to get rid of old things to make way for new things. It still kind of sucks for those of us who live through it, though. A lot of my frustration is with the current system's inertia as the current decaying institutions do their best to keep alternatives from taking root so all we can do is wait until they're finally weak enough to be ignored. In the meantime, what should we do? I can only speak to the American (and somewhat the Canadian) situation. I don't know what on the ground sentiment looks like in France or Hong Kong.