4 ms·

Note that if this project succeeds, then dinosaurs are not far behind. For example, we have dinosaur bones, but very little actual dodo fossils (apparently onl

Note that if this project succeeds, then dinosaurs are not far behind. For example, we have dinosaur bones, but very little actual dodo fossils (apparently only one foot and one piece of jaw [1]). The way this project is described, they will not need DNA of the dodo itself, only of its closest living relative (Nicobar pigeon) and closest extinct relative where we have DNA (Rodrigues solitaire). The genome of the dodo will be recreated by interpolation. Could that work for dinosaurs? Why not? There are lots of living relatives (all the birds, including the famous Cassowary, which some call a "living dinosaur"). We can do lots of genome interpolation, and we can identify the genes related to various morphological features. Not different at all from what they plan to do with the dodo. Would we ever get actual dinosaur DNA? Never say never. But even if we don't, it's quite likely we'll be able to deextinct the dinosaurs, if we can deextinct the Dodo. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo#Physical_remains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo#Physical_remains

idontwantthis 4y ago
Isn’t that like an AI “restoring” an image? A guess based reasonable assumptions but in no way the original image.
Keyframe 4y ago
one minor snag in that narrative is half-life of DNA which is 521 years. Last dinosaurs (of ye olde) were when?
- credit_guy 4y ago
  Just one year after that paper claiming the DNA half life of 521 years[1], the DNA of horse from 700k years ago was sequenced [2]. That would be about 1344 half-lives. Then, in 2021 the DNA of a mammoth that lived 1.2 million years ago was sequenced. To answer your question, dinosaurs last lived 65 million years ago. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2012.11555 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2012.11555 [2] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/130626-ancient-dna-oldest-sequenced-horse-paleontology-science https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/130626-an... [3] https://www.science.org/content/article/mammoth-molars-yield-oldest-dna-ever-sequenced https://www.science.org/content/article/mammoth-molars-yield...
  - nemo 4y ago
    Dinosaurs (non-avian) lived 66 million years ago+. The conditions that can preserve DNA longer is cold which is why Mammoth DNA in permafrost was able to be recovered. There's no permafrost from 66 million years ago. There's no means by which pre-avian dinosaur DNA might be preserved.
    - erulabs 4y ago
      What about the Michael Crichton "mosquito stuck in amber" idea? I've been curious about that for ages - assuming the amber is room temperature, would that even help preserve DNA for an extra day? I've been leaning towards "no", but I am extremely far from an organic chemist!
      - titaniumtown 4y ago
        Just because it's encased in something it doesn't prevent the decay of the actual DNA afaik.
      - kadoban 4y ago
        Encasing in amber really only shields you from outside things. Those include chemicals (especially oxygen, oxygen is _very_ reactive), life (bacteria) and possibly some shielding against radiation (eg light). Those do encompass a _lot_ of the reason that anything decays, but unfortunately it's not _all_ of the reasons things decay. And over millions of years, the remaining decay mechanisms are enough that you're really not going to have much/any intact DNA. It makes for a good story though.
        erulabs 4y ago
        Cool, this was my uneducated assumption, thanks!
    - credit_guy 4y ago
      How about this mummified dinosaur from 110 million years ago? https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/world/nodosaur-fossil-stomach-contents-scn-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/world/nodosaur-fossil-stomach...
- _yb2s 4y ago
  GP wasn't saying they will find dinosaur DNA, they were saying it may be possible to statistically infer a dinosaur sequence from the sequences of many remaining descendant species, that are still alive today.
  - Keyframe 4y ago
    Sounds like Crichton device as well.
omnicognate 4y ago
Strictly speaking, if they de-extinct the dodo they will already have resurrected an extinct dinosaur. [1][2] [1] https://xkcd.com/1211/ https://xkcd.com/1211/ [2] https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/why-are-birds-the-only-surviving-dinosaurs.html https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/why-are-birds-the-only-surviv...
dooglius 4y ago
Even more bold, it could bring back early hominids
- luckystarr 4y ago
  That would probably be more difficult due to ethical considerations.
  - hirundo 4y ago
    The ethics could flow in the other direction. If we wiped out homo neanderthalensis, de-extincting a breeding community of them could be restorative justice.
    - shkkmo 4y ago
      > de-extincting a breeding community of them could be restorative justice A non-voluntary breeding program of sapient beings has serious ethical issues, especially when it exists to assuage a weird sense of historical guilt.
  - culi 4y ago
    The Soviets were extremely close to making human-chimp hybrids. In 2019 human-monkey chimera embryos were successfully produced though they were only allowed to develop for a few weeks. Development was stopped prior to the development of a nervous system
ruph123 4y ago
Wouldn't be the lower oxygen levels in the atmosphere be a problem here?
rjmunro 4y ago
> very little actual dodo fossils There's this: https://oumnh.ox.ac.uk/learn-the-oxford-dodo https://oumnh.ox.ac.uk/learn-the-oxford-dodo which is far more than any dinosaur fossil.

idontwantthis 4y ago

Isn’t that like an AI “restoring” an image? A guess based reasonable assumptions but in no way the original image.

Keyframe 4y ago

one minor snag in that narrative is half-life of DNA which is 521 years. Last dinosaurs (of ye olde) were when?

credit_guy 4y ago
Just one year after that paper claiming the DNA half life of 521 years[1], the DNA of horse from 700k years ago was sequenced [2]. That would be about 1344 half-lives. Then, in 2021 the DNA of a mammoth that lived 1.2 million years ago was sequenced. To answer your question, dinosaurs last lived 65 million years ago. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2012.11555 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2012.11555 [2] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/130626-ancient-dna-oldest-sequenced-horse-paleontology-science https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/130626-an... [3] https://www.science.org/content/article/mammoth-molars-yield-oldest-dna-ever-sequenced https://www.science.org/content/article/mammoth-molars-yield...
- nemo 4y ago
  Dinosaurs (non-avian) lived 66 million years ago+. The conditions that can preserve DNA longer is cold which is why Mammoth DNA in permafrost was able to be recovered. There's no permafrost from 66 million years ago. There's no means by which pre-avian dinosaur DNA might be preserved.
  - erulabs 4y ago
    What about the Michael Crichton "mosquito stuck in amber" idea? I've been curious about that for ages - assuming the amber is room temperature, would that even help preserve DNA for an extra day? I've been leaning towards "no", but I am extremely far from an organic chemist!
    - titaniumtown 4y ago
      Just because it's encased in something it doesn't prevent the decay of the actual DNA afaik.
    - kadoban 4y ago
      Encasing in amber really only shields you from outside things. Those include chemicals (especially oxygen, oxygen is _very_ reactive), life (bacteria) and possibly some shielding against radiation (eg light). Those do encompass a _lot_ of the reason that anything decays, but unfortunately it's not _all_ of the reasons things decay. And over millions of years, the remaining decay mechanisms are enough that you're really not going to have much/any intact DNA. It makes for a good story though.
      - erulabs 4y ago
        Cool, this was my uneducated assumption, thanks!
  - credit_guy 4y ago
    How about this mummified dinosaur from 110 million years ago? https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/world/nodosaur-fossil-stomach-contents-scn-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/world/nodosaur-fossil-stomach...
_yb2s 4y ago
GP wasn't saying they will find dinosaur DNA, they were saying it may be possible to statistically infer a dinosaur sequence from the sequences of many remaining descendant species, that are still alive today.
- Keyframe 4y ago
  Sounds like Crichton device as well.

omnicognate 4y ago

Strictly speaking, if they de-extinct the dodo they will already have resurrected an extinct dinosaur. [1][2] [1] https://xkcd.com/1211/ https://xkcd.com/1211/ [2] https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/why-are-birds-the-only-surviving-dinosaurs.html https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/why-are-birds-the-only-surviv...

dooglius 4y ago

Even more bold, it could bring back early hominids

luckystarr 4y ago
That would probably be more difficult due to ethical considerations.
- hirundo 4y ago
  The ethics could flow in the other direction. If we wiped out homo neanderthalensis, de-extincting a breeding community of them could be restorative justice.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    > de-extincting a breeding community of them could be restorative justice A non-voluntary breeding program of sapient beings has serious ethical issues, especially when it exists to assuage a weird sense of historical guilt.
- culi 4y ago
  The Soviets were extremely close to making human-chimp hybrids. In 2019 human-monkey chimera embryos were successfully produced though they were only allowed to develop for a few weeks. Development was stopped prior to the development of a nervous system

ruph123 4y ago

Wouldn't be the lower oxygen levels in the atmosphere be a problem here?

rjmunro 4y ago

> very little actual dodo fossils There's this: https://oumnh.ox.ac.uk/learn-the-oxford-dodo https://oumnh.ox.ac.uk/learn-the-oxford-dodo which is far more than any dinosaur fossil.