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Morning exposure to deep red light improves declining eyesight

417 points by elsewhen 4y ago

mhb 4y ago
For the layperson: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211124154118.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211124154118.h...
flippinburgers 4y ago
Unfortunately there isn't a way to get such a device.
- ioman 4y ago
  You can find devices like this online by googling "670 nm led"
  - notacoward 4y ago
    670nm is indeed not hard to find, but also it looks like 660nm is even more common. Plenty of products from flashlights to bulbs to full fixtures.
- lm28469 4y ago
  You could DIY 650nm+ glasses using photography IR high pass filters and use any kind of light sources
  - scotty79 4y ago
    To get ~650nm you can just put #FF0000 on phone screen. EDIT: Not sure what people object to? What do they think is the R in RGB?
    - voidee 4y ago
      Curious if anyone has instrumentation to measure wavelengths for something like this. For instance, I have a 60” TV. What output would a #FF0000 image produce at full brightness?
hgsgm 4y ago
Where can I get 650 to 900nm light? Is it in common light bulbs?
- kenniskrag 4y ago
  maybe exists but i found some flashlights on amazon. But as always verify that it is not a scam and I can't right now.
- lm28469 4y ago
  Look for photo darkroom bulbs but they're very dim, I use my philips hue in my darkroom as safelights and it works (doesn't fog my paper), although it's also very dim
- moomoo3000 4y ago
  There are many brands, here's one example: https://iredusa.com/product/max https://iredusa.com/product/max
- Maursault 4y ago
  Cheap deep red flashlights are common, but not reliably described nor, generally, durable.[1] Decent deep red flashlights are expensive.[2] One may also get an inexpensive yet half-decent flashlight that isn't red[3][4], and have an expert modder[5] swap the LED, which very often can be done with a single color hyper red or photo red, 660nm-670nm, LED[6][7]. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=670nm+flashlight https://www.google.com/search?q=670nm+flashlight [2] https://www.zebralight.com/H502pr-Photo-Red-AA-Flood-Headlamp_p_175.html https://www.zebralight.com/H502pr-Photo-Red-AA-Flood-Headlam... (technically a headlamp, but also a 90° flashlight) [3] https://www.amazon.com/LUMINTOP-Flashlight-Pocket-sized-Waterproof-Emergency/dp/B07X3BMZXS/ https://www.amazon.com/LUMINTOP-Flashlight-Pocket-sized-Wate... [4] https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Flashlight-LUMINTOP-Function-Waterproof/dp/B0915PWJRL/ https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Flashlight-LUMINTOP-Function-W... [5] https://skylumen.com/pages/modding-services https://skylumen.com/pages/modding-services [6] https://www.mouser.com/new/cree/cree-xlampXPG3-photo-red-led/ https://www.mouser.com/new/cree/cree-xlampXPG3-photo-red-led... [7] https://www.mouser.com/c/optoelectronics/led-lighting/led-emitters/high-power-leds-single-color/?wavelength%2Fcolor%20temperature=670%20nm https://www.mouser.com/c/optoelectronics/led-lighting/led-em...
illwrks 4y ago
I wear glasses. I did old school photography as a module throughout university. Multiple times a week I was in a dark room under red lights for a couple of hours at a time. I remember the first few weeks my eyes muscles were extremely fatigued because of it. However during those few years even though my time in front of a computer screen went way up my vision did not deteriorate as expected by my optometrist. When I switched to digital cameras and was no longer in the darkroom then my deterioration was back on track. I've alway wondered if the darkroom was a positive thing for my eyesight...
- plugin-baby 4y ago
  Maybe you were younger back then.
  - illwrks 4y ago
    Maybe :(
- yetihehe 4y ago
  Mybe, maybe not. I had bad eyesight since childhood, everyone believed to be "because of screen time". But since then I have even more screen time and I have the same prescription since 20yr.
  - lm28469 4y ago
    Wouldn't kids eye sights be more susceptible to damage because their eyes are still developing ?
    - actionfromafar 4y ago
      The latest finding is kids need UV light so their eyes don't grow deformed during formative years.
    - hnews_account_1 4y ago
      So they say but tons of adults get glasses only later in life. I’ve been using computers since I was maybe 12 years old (very early 2000s). I finally had to get glasses when I was 25. Even then it was just a -0.50 correction. It deteriorated further after that.
pcdoodle 4y ago
I saw this last time it was posted and took action. I already had a 250w raw heat lamp bulb sitting around and a base for a high watt bulb. I put the contraption on one of those remote control outlet switches and placed it at 10 o-clock from the head of the bed. I turn it on in the mornings if I wanna surf in bed. I don't have bad eyesight or night vision but so can't tell if it's an improvement. I can tell you it is very comfortable on my eyes and the heat is nice in the winter.
elzbardico 4y ago
Foolish layperson question: Is it possible to generate this particular wavelength in a computer display?
- lm28469 4y ago
  It depends on the screen, but probably not, they usually cut off before 700nm. Everything after 650nm is considered near infrared Like so: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Measured-spectral-output-of-the-laptop-computer-screen-used-for-calculations_fig4_285746914 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Measured-spectral-output... or so: https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-vyhij/images/stencil/1024x1024/products/173/1884/5_Spectrum_Chart_Combination_1_2WM_Updated-01__14395.1634708650.jpg?c=2 https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-vyhij/images/stencil/1024x10...
  - mpreda 4y ago
    A related question: how to get the deepest-red frequency on the monitor (while reducing the interference from other frequencies)? The first step would be to use red color (let's say, RGB=0xff0000). Is there anything to do to lower the frequency? Would reducing the brightness help? Or is it just simply: set it to full-red, full-brightness?
    - beakergordon 4y ago
      The core constraint is the ability of any particular monitor to product light at these wavelengths. In simple terms, LCD panels often shine a white backlight through a panel with separate red, green, and blue filters for every pixel. A fully-white image, then, should have the broadest spectrum possible for a specific screen. Apply a pure red image, e.g. 0xFF0000, will selectively filter the spectrum to mostly eliminate the green and blue wavelengths, but depending on the filtering material may also eliminate longer wavelengths too. Edited to add: This graphic [1] illustrates the spectrum produced by common light sources. Old LCD panels used fluorescent backlights like the bottom example. More recent LCD panels often use an array of LED backlights. The bottom line is that, if you're trying to maximize red light exposure, you're much better off with: sunlight >> incandescent bulb light > a very "warm" LED light. [1] https://www.waveformlighting.com/img/full-spectrum-graphic.png https://www.waveformlighting.com/img/full-spectrum-graphic.p...
opmac 4y ago
This research is nearly two years old and I haven't found any consumer devices specifically made for this purpose yet, unfortunately. I'm sort of wary of buying random LEDs advertised as 670nm on Amazon and then shining it directly into my eyes. Regardless, it's very exciting research.
- sscotthall 4y ago
  My wife asked for a red light for Christmas, specifically from Vital Red Light [1]. Turns out the red light is 660nm, with additional near IR LEDs around 850nm. I was skeptical of it's effect, but am a believer now. The best way to describe it is it feels like laying in the sun on a beach, but without getting sweaty or sunburnt. [1] https://vitalredlight.com/ https://vitalredlight.com/
  - eatsyourtacos 4y ago
    After going to that website.. are you sure being exposed to the rays of the Kryptonian sun won't take away my superpowers?
- flanbiscuit 4y ago
  User @mhb posted this article which discusses the study: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211124154118.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211124154118.h... From that article: > Home-based affordable eye therapies > With a paucity of affordable deep red-light eye-therapies available, Professor Jeffery has been working for no commercial gain with Planet Lighting UK, a small company in Wales and others, with the aim of producing 670nm infra-red eye ware at an affordable cost, in contrast to some other LED devices designed to improve vision available in the US for over $20,000." That company has already released a product: https://www.eye-power.co.uk/ https://www.eye-power.co.uk/ US$72 GB£45.00
  - opmac 4y ago
    Thanks.
- 4y ago
c-smile 4y ago
Why not just morning exposure to the Sun then? Just meet the sunrise and it will be at least twice healthier.
- pimlottc 4y ago
  You'd be extremely lucky to see the sun every morning during the winter in many places
  - fy20 4y ago
    I'm in Northern Europe and we haven't had a sunny morning since November. It's been cloudy every morning since then. Yesterday I saw the sun for the first time in weeks, for around 30 minutes...
- layer8 4y ago
  It isn’t usually very red.
  - Tcepsa 4y ago
    That's because it is a broad spectrum source; it includes a lot of red, but it looks yellow/white because of all the other frequencies that are also present. So if you need to be exposed to just red light it won't work well, but if the red light works regardless of the presence of other colors then the sun seems like it would be a fine source.
  - c-smile 4y ago
    It still contains that wavelength. > Most of the solar radiation that reaches Earth is made up of visible and infrared light. https://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/parameters/weather/photosynthetically-active-radiation/ https://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/paramet...
- xen2xen1 4y ago
  Sunlight during the morning commute is one of the few upsides to the morning commute.
scotty79 4y ago
The funny thing is that there are readily available 670nm flashlights sold with claims of protective effects on aging eyes.
alfor 4y ago
TLDR: it affect every cells of the body, not just the retina, mitochondria need infrared (just like we need UV for vid-D) I healed my eczema with red light (infrared heater) It turn out that infrared is needed by all our cells to get rid of inflammation. We are in an epidemic of autoimmune diseases partially caused by the lack of infrared. The spectrum of halogen lights is continuous and closer to what we would get outside. Tungsten bulbs are also continuous but more tilted toward infrared. I think we will have unintended consequence of everyone switching to led lights: the "wasted" infrared are actually useful for our body. It is wise to assume that almost everything from the natural environment is connected to our biology. As we move further away from it we stack up the health problems self inflicted: crooked teeth, wisdom teeth, miopia, acnee, vid-d deficiency, autoimmune diseases, depression, anxiety, etc. Search "Medcram infrared" it’s a doctor that explain the science behind it.
- sharatvir 4y ago
  > As we move further away from it we stack up the health problems self inflicted: crooked teeth, wisdom teeth, miopia, acnee, vid-d deficiency, autoimmune diseases, depression, anxiety, etc The rest of these seem intuitively correct but could you expand on the dental problems?
  - alfor 4y ago
    We eat softer food, the pressure from chewing is necessary for our jaw to develop properly. Without it our jaw is smaller leaving not enough space for all teeths. Smaller jaw also mean smaller airways in the sinus and throat making snoring and sleep apnea more common with huge repercussions.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - jjcc 4y ago
    Not the op but I read some article saying that it it is caused by the dietary product from corn fed cow as opposed to the traditional dietary product. Supplements with Vit K2 is an easy fix.
graeme 4y ago
Note that this study refers to colour vision, not myopia > and had normal colour vision (cone function). This was assessed using a 'Chroma Test': identifying coloured letters that had very low contrast and appeared increasingly blurred, a process called colour contrast. Using a provided LED device all 20 participants (13 female and 7 male) were exposed to three minutes of 670nm deep red light in the morning between 8am and 9am. Their colour vision was then tested again three hours post exposure and 10 of the participants were also tested one week post exposure. On average there was a 'significant' 17% improvement in colour vision, which lasted a week in tested participants; in some older participants there was a 20% improvement, also lasting a week.
- Buttons840 4y ago
  Was there a control group? I wonder whether the red light helped or people just got better at performing a test.
  - holmium 4y ago
    It looks like there was a control group: > However, an additional control was undertaken where colour contrast thresholds were measured in the morning and then re-measured 3 h later without exposure to 670 nm. This comprised of ten subjects (six Females and four males). To determine if there were significant shifts in colour contrast sensitivities across the day that were independent of 670 nm and might undermine outcome measures for their exposure, six subjects were repeatedly tested at 0, + 3, + 6 and + 9 h (four Females and two Males). Figure 2 shows the (lack of) effect in the no-light control group at T0 and T+3hrs. Interestingly, they don't compare to baseline like in figure 1 with the AM light group. However, Figure 4 does show a lack of training effect when repeating the same test 4 times throughout the day within the same subject. (Also, interesting that your first response to a paper in Nature is that they don't have a control group...) Edit: And presumably they took the design of their study into account when calculating their statistics (https://www.stat.cmu.edu/~hseltman/309/Book/chapter14.pdf https://www.stat.cmu.edu/~hseltman/309/Book/chapter14.pdf). Their methods seem to imply that, but I'm not familiar with it so I'll pray the reviewers checked for that lol.
  - deleted 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
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JustSomeNobody 4y ago
This is a bit too sciency for me, but my interpretation is that this would potentially help with seeing in low contrast conditions. But if you wear glasses (age related lens hardening, astigmatism, etc) , this isn't going to get you where you don't have to wear glasses.
- anthk 4y ago
  Astronomy software such as KStars has a red-on-black setting because of that.
pelasaco 4y ago
would that work https://www.amazon.de/JOBYNA-Infrarottherapie-Rotlichttherapie-Rotlichtlampe-Tiefentherapie/dp/B0B1QH38BZ/ https://www.amazon.de/JOBYNA-Infrarottherapie-Rotlichttherap... ?
- pelasaco 4y ago
  or that https://www.amazon.de/Multifunktionale-USB-Taschenlampe-LED-Taschenlampe-Verschlechterung-wasserabweisend/dp/B09NLNRVR8/ https://www.amazon.de/Multifunktionale-USB-Taschenlampe-LED-... ?
flanbiscuit 4y ago
I'm over 40 and have been wearing glasses most of my life. My prescription has mostly been stable since my late teens/early twenties but I'm definitely doing that thing now where I need to take my glasses off to read things up close (probably have Presbyopia). > A single 3 min 670 nm morning exposure to the eye at energy levels approximately a log unit greater than found in environmental light 2 questions here: - "exposure to the eye" - do I need to directly stare at it? or is ambient light enough? - "a log unit greater than found in environmental light" - how much brighter is "a log unit greater", how can I measure, or know, that I'm reaching this goal > ...significantly improved subject colour contrast thresholds for both tritan and protan axes when tested 3 h later. Can someone explain to me what this means? Will I actually notice a difference? or is this something that will just slow down the aging process but not reverse it? finally, found this interesting from the scienedaily article @mhb posted in this thread https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211124154118.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211124154118.h... > Home-based affordable eye therapies > With a paucity of affordable deep red-light eye-therapies available, Professor Jeffery has been working for no commercial gain with Planet Lighting UK, a small company in Wales and others, with the aim of producing 670nm infra-red eye ware at an affordable cost, in contrast to some other LED devices designed to improve vision available in the US for over $20,000." They've already released a product! https://www.eye-power.co.uk/ https://www.eye-power.co.uk/ It's US$72, GB£45.00 I've placed my order (can't hurt right?). Total with shipping to the US for me came out to $89 I guess all of my questions are irrelevant now that I've ordered this device
- obituary_latte 4y ago
  Same, here...hoping if nothing else, the placebo effect might help my mother's mood/esteem. But here's hoping it actually works for us both!
- throwanem 4y ago
  > I'm definitely doing that thing now where I need to take my glasses off to read things up close (probably have Presbyopia) Sounds like it. Assuming red light doesn't do the trick, I'll mention that I found progressive bifocals extremely unpleasant at first, but only at first. Stick with it a couple days, like I very nearly didn't, and they're fine - much more comfortable to use than I ever found the old discrete type.
hubraumhugo 4y ago
Are there any consumer devices for this (ideally available in Europe)?
anthk 4y ago
xgamma -rgamma 1.0 -ggamma 0.1 -bgamma 0.1 It's something.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mountainboy 4y ago
the sungazing community has been aware of this for decades, if not centuries, millenia.
MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
Ray Peat (RIP) has written about this. Some choice quotes: https://lifegivingstore.com/ray-peat-on-red-light/ https://lifegivingstore.com/ray-peat-on-red-light/
sjkelly 4y ago
It is great to see this getting more attention. One of the best routines I started was morning yoga. But it is cold here in Boston, and I have mild seasonal affect disorder. So I got some 250W IR heat lamps and a UV light therapy box to try to simulate sunlight on gloomy days while I do morning yoga. I usually also have some mild eye trouble and dryness in the winter (probably a mix of cycling in the cold, and being indoors). The eye and mood symptoms have pretty much disappeared since using the lights.
- voidee 4y ago
  What IR heaters did you purchase? TIA!
Amorymeltzer 4y ago
Of note, this manuscript is from November 2021, and in 2020 there were two thorough discussions here about the author's prior publication from that year: - June 2020 (270 points, 112 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23685915 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23685915 - August 2020 (211 points, 84 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24080553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24080553
bootcat 4y ago
We are asked to bow down to the sun and internalize the rays and glory every early morning and during twilight :)
- moffkalast 4y ago
  We have forgotten the glory of Ra and his rage shall be unending.
uptownfunk 4y ago
I like to approach the world from as rational of a lens as possible but there is something so calm and peaceful about the 90 or so minutes up to sunrise. Going out for a run just as the sun is rising has been such a great way to start my day. I’ve made a huge change to get to sleeping by 11p and it’s changed my life and energy levels for the better. Of course I wonder if the fact that I can perceive changes to me energy levels is a sign that I’m getting old now.
- hollerith 4y ago
  >the 90 or so minutes up to sunrise That greatly helps me get to sleep by 11p, too, but IIUC has nothing to do with this submission: we know why exposure to the light of the sun when the sun is very low in the sky affects the circadian rhythm (namely, via its effect on intrinsically-photosensitive retinal ganglion cells) and it has nothing to do with the red and infrared photons we are talking about here. (It has rather to do with a particular ratio of yellow photons to blue photons according to Andrew Huberman. Also, I suspect that there aren't sufficient fluxes of red and infrared photons outdoors before sunrise.) The point is that you need to go outside again later in the day -- or get your infrared or red photons some other way -- to "nourish" your mitochondria in the way we are talking about here. They're separate health effects of light (or EM radiation to be precise) just like the production of vitamin D is again a separate health effect.
  - bXVsbGVy 4y ago
    Image with the light sensitivity of the photoreceptor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsically_photosensitive_retinal_ganglion_cell#/media/File:Overview_of_the_retina_photoreceptors_(b).png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsically_photosensitive_r... Note: Melanopsin is the name of the ipRGC's photopigments. --- I've seems studies showing that genetically modified blind mices with ipRGC had circadian cycle. And that just a few photons of blue light is capable of suppress melatonin production in humans. But I haven't seem anything about supression of melatonin being regulated by the ratio of yellow light and blue light. Could you provide a source?
    - 4y ago
kumarvvr 4y ago
In India, upto like a few decades ago, getting up early in the morning and doing a surya namaskar was a daily morning routine. I guess, this is one of the health benefits of getting exposed to early morning sun.
medwards666 4y ago
So, Sting was wrong and Roxanne just had bad eyesight?
jamesgill 4y ago
I'd love to hear practical examples of how I can accomplish this long-wavelength exposure myself.
- calebm 4y ago
  Go look at the sun
- bXVsbGVy 4y ago
  "Deep red" leds. They are used to grow cannabis indoor, very easy to find.
chamwislothe2nd 4y ago
[dead]
guruz 4y ago
There is a huge compilation of PBM (photobiomodulation) research here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZKl5Me4XwPj4YgJCBes3VSCJjiVO4XI0tIR0rbMBj08/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZKl5Me4XwPj4YgJCBes3...
- sriacha 4y ago
  Wow, great resource. Do you know who put it together?
  - dwich 4y ago
    It's by Vladimir Heiskanen. His blog hasn't been updated in a long time, but has articles explaining some of the principles behind red light therapy: http://valtsus.blogspot.com/ http://valtsus.blogspot.com/
mr_sturd 4y ago
Any low frequency sounds that can do this for hearing? Asking for a friend...
mark_l_watson 4y ago
One thing I did not get from the article: I try to spend 5 or 10 minutes outside at sunrise. Is this sufficient or are they talking about artificial red light?
ggm 4y ago
The 670 nm light devices were supplied by CH electronics (UK) and based on commercial DC torches with nine 670 nm LEDs mounted behind a light diffuser so that energies at the cornea were approximately 8 mW/cm2. 670 nm light was delivered down a white internally reflecting tube that fitted over the eye with an internal diameter of 3.2 cm. Based on subject’s perception the region of the retina illuminated was centred on the macular and extended into the equator but did not include the far periphery. Estimates of the exact retinal region of illumination are hard to derive because the pupil will variably close in response to the light. However, 670 nm will penetrate the iris33 and this will most likely be associated with scatter. The energy delivered at this wavelength is less than a log unit greater than that found in environmental light17. So.. based on commercially available LED technology.

417 points by elsewhen 4y ago

mhb 4y ago

For the layperson: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211124154118.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211124154118.h...

flippinburgers 4y ago

Unfortunately there isn't a way to get such a device.

ioman 4y ago
You can find devices like this online by googling "670 nm led"
- notacoward 4y ago
  670nm is indeed not hard to find, but also it looks like 660nm is even more common. Plenty of products from flashlights to bulbs to full fixtures.
lm28469 4y ago
You could DIY 650nm+ glasses using photography IR high pass filters and use any kind of light sources
- scotty79 4y ago
  To get ~650nm you can just put #FF0000 on phone screen. EDIT: Not sure what people object to? What do they think is the R in RGB?
  - voidee 4y ago
    Curious if anyone has instrumentation to measure wavelengths for something like this. For instance, I have a 60” TV. What output would a #FF0000 image produce at full brightness?

hgsgm 4y ago

Where can I get 650 to 900nm light? Is it in common light bulbs?

kenniskrag 4y ago
maybe exists but i found some flashlights on amazon. But as always verify that it is not a scam and I can't right now.
lm28469 4y ago
Look for photo darkroom bulbs but they're very dim, I use my philips hue in my darkroom as safelights and it works (doesn't fog my paper), although it's also very dim
moomoo3000 4y ago
There are many brands, here's one example: https://iredusa.com/product/max https://iredusa.com/product/max
Maursault 4y ago
Cheap deep red flashlights are common, but not reliably described nor, generally, durable.[1] Decent deep red flashlights are expensive.[2] One may also get an inexpensive yet half-decent flashlight that isn't red[3][4], and have an expert modder[5] swap the LED, which very often can be done with a single color hyper red or photo red, 660nm-670nm, LED[6][7]. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=670nm+flashlight https://www.google.com/search?q=670nm+flashlight [2] https://www.zebralight.com/H502pr-Photo-Red-AA-Flood-Headlamp_p_175.html https://www.zebralight.com/H502pr-Photo-Red-AA-Flood-Headlam... (technically a headlamp, but also a 90° flashlight) [3] https://www.amazon.com/LUMINTOP-Flashlight-Pocket-sized-Waterproof-Emergency/dp/B07X3BMZXS/ https://www.amazon.com/LUMINTOP-Flashlight-Pocket-sized-Wate... [4] https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Flashlight-LUMINTOP-Function-Waterproof/dp/B0915PWJRL/ https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Flashlight-LUMINTOP-Function-W... [5] https://skylumen.com/pages/modding-services https://skylumen.com/pages/modding-services [6] https://www.mouser.com/new/cree/cree-xlampXPG3-photo-red-led/ https://www.mouser.com/new/cree/cree-xlampXPG3-photo-red-led... [7] https://www.mouser.com/c/optoelectronics/led-lighting/led-emitters/high-power-leds-single-color/?wavelength%2Fcolor%20temperature=670%20nm https://www.mouser.com/c/optoelectronics/led-lighting/led-em...

illwrks 4y ago

I wear glasses. I did old school photography as a module throughout university. Multiple times a week I was in a dark room under red lights for a couple of hours at a time. I remember the first few weeks my eyes muscles were extremely fatigued because of it. However during those few years even though my time in front of a computer screen went way up my vision did not deteriorate as expected by my optometrist. When I switched to digital cameras and was no longer in the darkroom then my deterioration was back on track. I've alway wondered if the darkroom was a positive thing for my eyesight...

plugin-baby 4y ago
Maybe you were younger back then.
- illwrks 4y ago
  Maybe :(
yetihehe 4y ago
Mybe, maybe not. I had bad eyesight since childhood, everyone believed to be "because of screen time". But since then I have even more screen time and I have the same prescription since 20yr.
- lm28469 4y ago
  Wouldn't kids eye sights be more susceptible to damage because their eyes are still developing ?
  - actionfromafar 4y ago
    The latest finding is kids need UV light so their eyes don't grow deformed during formative years.
  - hnews_account_1 4y ago
    So they say but tons of adults get glasses only later in life. I’ve been using computers since I was maybe 12 years old (very early 2000s). I finally had to get glasses when I was 25. Even then it was just a -0.50 correction. It deteriorated further after that.

pcdoodle 4y ago

I saw this last time it was posted and took action. I already had a 250w raw heat lamp bulb sitting around and a base for a high watt bulb. I put the contraption on one of those remote control outlet switches and placed it at 10 o-clock from the head of the bed. I turn it on in the mornings if I wanna surf in bed. I don't have bad eyesight or night vision but so can't tell if it's an improvement. I can tell you it is very comfortable on my eyes and the heat is nice in the winter.

elzbardico 4y ago

Foolish layperson question: Is it possible to generate this particular wavelength in a computer display?

lm28469 4y ago
It depends on the screen, but probably not, they usually cut off before 700nm. Everything after 650nm is considered near infrared Like so: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Measured-spectral-output-of-the-laptop-computer-screen-used-for-calculations_fig4_285746914 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Measured-spectral-output... or so: https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-vyhij/images/stencil/1024x1024/products/173/1884/5_Spectrum_Chart_Combination_1_2WM_Updated-01__14395.1634708650.jpg?c=2 https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-vyhij/images/stencil/1024x10...
- mpreda 4y ago
  A related question: how to get the deepest-red frequency on the monitor (while reducing the interference from other frequencies)? The first step would be to use red color (let's say, RGB=0xff0000). Is there anything to do to lower the frequency? Would reducing the brightness help? Or is it just simply: set it to full-red, full-brightness?
  - beakergordon 4y ago
    The core constraint is the ability of any particular monitor to product light at these wavelengths. In simple terms, LCD panels often shine a white backlight through a panel with separate red, green, and blue filters for every pixel. A fully-white image, then, should have the broadest spectrum possible for a specific screen. Apply a pure red image, e.g. 0xFF0000, will selectively filter the spectrum to mostly eliminate the green and blue wavelengths, but depending on the filtering material may also eliminate longer wavelengths too. Edited to add: This graphic [1] illustrates the spectrum produced by common light sources. Old LCD panels used fluorescent backlights like the bottom example. More recent LCD panels often use an array of LED backlights. The bottom line is that, if you're trying to maximize red light exposure, you're much better off with: sunlight >> incandescent bulb light > a very "warm" LED light. [1] https://www.waveformlighting.com/img/full-spectrum-graphic.png https://www.waveformlighting.com/img/full-spectrum-graphic.p...

opmac 4y ago

This research is nearly two years old and I haven't found any consumer devices specifically made for this purpose yet, unfortunately. I'm sort of wary of buying random LEDs advertised as 670nm on Amazon and then shining it directly into my eyes. Regardless, it's very exciting research.

sscotthall 4y ago
My wife asked for a red light for Christmas, specifically from Vital Red Light [1]. Turns out the red light is 660nm, with additional near IR LEDs around 850nm. I was skeptical of it's effect, but am a believer now. The best way to describe it is it feels like laying in the sun on a beach, but without getting sweaty or sunburnt. [1] https://vitalredlight.com/ https://vitalredlight.com/
- eatsyourtacos 4y ago
  After going to that website.. are you sure being exposed to the rays of the Kryptonian sun won't take away my superpowers?
flanbiscuit 4y ago
User @mhb posted this article which discusses the study: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211124154118.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211124154118.h... From that article: > Home-based affordable eye therapies > With a paucity of affordable deep red-light eye-therapies available, Professor Jeffery has been working for no commercial gain with Planet Lighting UK, a small company in Wales and others, with the aim of producing 670nm infra-red eye ware at an affordable cost, in contrast to some other LED devices designed to improve vision available in the US for over $20,000." That company has already released a product: https://www.eye-power.co.uk/ https://www.eye-power.co.uk/ US$72 GB£45.00
- opmac 4y ago
  Thanks.
4y ago

c-smile 4y ago

Why not just morning exposure to the Sun then? Just meet the sunrise and it will be at least twice healthier.

pimlottc 4y ago
You'd be extremely lucky to see the sun every morning during the winter in many places
- fy20 4y ago
  I'm in Northern Europe and we haven't had a sunny morning since November. It's been cloudy every morning since then. Yesterday I saw the sun for the first time in weeks, for around 30 minutes...
layer8 4y ago
It isn’t usually very red.
- Tcepsa 4y ago
  That's because it is a broad spectrum source; it includes a lot of red, but it looks yellow/white because of all the other frequencies that are also present. So if you need to be exposed to just red light it won't work well, but if the red light works regardless of the presence of other colors then the sun seems like it would be a fine source.
- c-smile 4y ago
  It still contains that wavelength. > Most of the solar radiation that reaches Earth is made up of visible and infrared light. https://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/parameters/weather/photosynthetically-active-radiation/ https://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/paramet...
xen2xen1 4y ago
Sunlight during the morning commute is one of the few upsides to the morning commute.

scotty79 4y ago

The funny thing is that there are readily available 670nm flashlights sold with claims of protective effects on aging eyes.

alfor 4y ago

TLDR: it affect every cells of the body, not just the retina, mitochondria need infrared (just like we need UV for vid-D) I healed my eczema with red light (infrared heater) It turn out that infrared is needed by all our cells to get rid of inflammation. We are in an epidemic of autoimmune diseases partially caused by the lack of infrared. The spectrum of halogen lights is continuous and closer to what we would get outside. Tungsten bulbs are also continuous but more tilted toward infrared. I think we will have unintended consequence of everyone switching to led lights: the "wasted" infrared are actually useful for our body. It is wise to assume that almost everything from the natural environment is connected to our biology. As we move further away from it we stack up the health problems self inflicted: crooked teeth, wisdom teeth, miopia, acnee, vid-d deficiency, autoimmune diseases, depression, anxiety, etc. Search "Medcram infrared" it’s a doctor that explain the science behind it.

sharatvir 4y ago
> As we move further away from it we stack up the health problems self inflicted: crooked teeth, wisdom teeth, miopia, acnee, vid-d deficiency, autoimmune diseases, depression, anxiety, etc The rest of these seem intuitively correct but could you expand on the dental problems?
- alfor 4y ago
  We eat softer food, the pressure from chewing is necessary for our jaw to develop properly. Without it our jaw is smaller leaving not enough space for all teeths. Smaller jaw also mean smaller airways in the sinus and throat making snoring and sleep apnea more common with huge repercussions.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- jjcc 4y ago
  Not the op but I read some article saying that it it is caused by the dietary product from corn fed cow as opposed to the traditional dietary product. Supplements with Vit K2 is an easy fix.

graeme 4y ago

Note that this study refers to colour vision, not myopia > and had normal colour vision (cone function). This was assessed using a 'Chroma Test': identifying coloured letters that had very low contrast and appeared increasingly blurred, a process called colour contrast. Using a provided LED device all 20 participants (13 female and 7 male) were exposed to three minutes of 670nm deep red light in the morning between 8am and 9am. Their colour vision was then tested again three hours post exposure and 10 of the participants were also tested one week post exposure. On average there was a 'significant' 17% improvement in colour vision, which lasted a week in tested participants; in some older participants there was a 20% improvement, also lasting a week.

Buttons840 4y ago
Was there a control group? I wonder whether the red light helped or people just got better at performing a test.
- holmium 4y ago
  It looks like there was a control group: > However, an additional control was undertaken where colour contrast thresholds were measured in the morning and then re-measured 3 h later without exposure to 670 nm. This comprised of ten subjects (six Females and four males). To determine if there were significant shifts in colour contrast sensitivities across the day that were independent of 670 nm and might undermine outcome measures for their exposure, six subjects were repeatedly tested at 0, + 3, + 6 and + 9 h (four Females and two Males). Figure 2 shows the (lack of) effect in the no-light control group at T0 and T+3hrs. Interestingly, they don't compare to baseline like in figure 1 with the AM light group. However, Figure 4 does show a lack of training effect when repeating the same test 4 times throughout the day within the same subject. (Also, interesting that your first response to a paper in Nature is that they don't have a control group...) Edit: And presumably they took the design of their study into account when calculating their statistics (https://www.stat.cmu.edu/~hseltman/309/Book/chapter14.pdf https://www.stat.cmu.edu/~hseltman/309/Book/chapter14.pdf). Their methods seem to imply that, but I'm not familiar with it so I'll pray the reviewers checked for that lol.
- deleted 4y ago

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JustSomeNobody 4y ago

This is a bit too sciency for me, but my interpretation is that this would potentially help with seeing in low contrast conditions. But if you wear glasses (age related lens hardening, astigmatism, etc) , this isn't going to get you where you don't have to wear glasses.

anthk 4y ago
Astronomy software such as KStars has a red-on-black setting because of that.

pelasaco 4y ago

would that work https://www.amazon.de/JOBYNA-Infrarottherapie-Rotlichttherapie-Rotlichtlampe-Tiefentherapie/dp/B0B1QH38BZ/ https://www.amazon.de/JOBYNA-Infrarottherapie-Rotlichttherap... ?

pelasaco 4y ago
or that https://www.amazon.de/Multifunktionale-USB-Taschenlampe-LED-Taschenlampe-Verschlechterung-wasserabweisend/dp/B09NLNRVR8/ https://www.amazon.de/Multifunktionale-USB-Taschenlampe-LED-... ?

flanbiscuit 4y ago

I'm over 40 and have been wearing glasses most of my life. My prescription has mostly been stable since my late teens/early twenties but I'm definitely doing that thing now where I need to take my glasses off to read things up close (probably have Presbyopia). > A single 3 min 670 nm morning exposure to the eye at energy levels approximately a log unit greater than found in environmental light 2 questions here: - "exposure to the eye" - do I need to directly stare at it? or is ambient light enough? - "a log unit greater than found in environmental light" - how much brighter is "a log unit greater", how can I measure, or know, that I'm reaching this goal > ...significantly improved subject colour contrast thresholds for both tritan and protan axes when tested 3 h later. Can someone explain to me what this means? Will I actually notice a difference? or is this something that will just slow down the aging process but not reverse it? finally, found this interesting from the scienedaily article @mhb posted in this thread https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211124154118.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211124154118.h... > Home-based affordable eye therapies > With a paucity of affordable deep red-light eye-therapies available, Professor Jeffery has been working for no commercial gain with Planet Lighting UK, a small company in Wales and others, with the aim of producing 670nm infra-red eye ware at an affordable cost, in contrast to some other LED devices designed to improve vision available in the US for over $20,000." They've already released a product! https://www.eye-power.co.uk/ https://www.eye-power.co.uk/ It's US$72, GB£45.00 I've placed my order (can't hurt right?). Total with shipping to the US for me came out to $89 I guess all of my questions are irrelevant now that I've ordered this device

obituary_latte 4y ago
Same, here...hoping if nothing else, the placebo effect might help my mother's mood/esteem. But here's hoping it actually works for us both!
throwanem 4y ago
> I'm definitely doing that thing now where I need to take my glasses off to read things up close (probably have Presbyopia) Sounds like it. Assuming red light doesn't do the trick, I'll mention that I found progressive bifocals extremely unpleasant at first, but only at first. Stick with it a couple days, like I very nearly didn't, and they're fine - much more comfortable to use than I ever found the old discrete type.

hubraumhugo 4y ago

Are there any consumer devices for this (ideally available in Europe)?

anthk 4y ago

xgamma -rgamma 1.0 -ggamma 0.1 -bgamma 0.1 It's something.

deleted 4y ago

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mountainboy 4y ago

the sungazing community has been aware of this for decades, if not centuries, millenia.

MrBuddyCasino 4y ago

Ray Peat (RIP) has written about this. Some choice quotes: https://lifegivingstore.com/ray-peat-on-red-light/ https://lifegivingstore.com/ray-peat-on-red-light/

sjkelly 4y ago

It is great to see this getting more attention. One of the best routines I started was morning yoga. But it is cold here in Boston, and I have mild seasonal affect disorder. So I got some 250W IR heat lamps and a UV light therapy box to try to simulate sunlight on gloomy days while I do morning yoga. I usually also have some mild eye trouble and dryness in the winter (probably a mix of cycling in the cold, and being indoors). The eye and mood symptoms have pretty much disappeared since using the lights.

voidee 4y ago
What IR heaters did you purchase? TIA!

Amorymeltzer 4y ago

Of note, this manuscript is from November 2021, and in 2020 there were two thorough discussions here about the author's prior publication from that year: - June 2020 (270 points, 112 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23685915 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23685915 - August 2020 (211 points, 84 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24080553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24080553

bootcat 4y ago

We are asked to bow down to the sun and internalize the rays and glory every early morning and during twilight :)

moffkalast 4y ago
We have forgotten the glory of Ra and his rage shall be unending.

uptownfunk 4y ago

I like to approach the world from as rational of a lens as possible but there is something so calm and peaceful about the 90 or so minutes up to sunrise. Going out for a run just as the sun is rising has been such a great way to start my day. I’ve made a huge change to get to sleeping by 11p and it’s changed my life and energy levels for the better. Of course I wonder if the fact that I can perceive changes to me energy levels is a sign that I’m getting old now.

hollerith 4y ago
>the 90 or so minutes up to sunrise That greatly helps me get to sleep by 11p, too, but IIUC has nothing to do with this submission: we know why exposure to the light of the sun when the sun is very low in the sky affects the circadian rhythm (namely, via its effect on intrinsically-photosensitive retinal ganglion cells) and it has nothing to do with the red and infrared photons we are talking about here. (It has rather to do with a particular ratio of yellow photons to blue photons according to Andrew Huberman. Also, I suspect that there aren't sufficient fluxes of red and infrared photons outdoors before sunrise.) The point is that you need to go outside again later in the day -- or get your infrared or red photons some other way -- to "nourish" your mitochondria in the way we are talking about here. They're separate health effects of light (or EM radiation to be precise) just like the production of vitamin D is again a separate health effect.
- bXVsbGVy 4y ago
  Image with the light sensitivity of the photoreceptor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsically_photosensitive_retinal_ganglion_cell#/media/File:Overview_of_the_retina_photoreceptors_(b).png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsically_photosensitive_r... Note: Melanopsin is the name of the ipRGC's photopigments. --- I've seems studies showing that genetically modified blind mices with ipRGC had circadian cycle. And that just a few photons of blue light is capable of suppress melatonin production in humans. But I haven't seem anything about supression of melatonin being regulated by the ratio of yellow light and blue light. Could you provide a source?
  - 4y ago

kumarvvr 4y ago

In India, upto like a few decades ago, getting up early in the morning and doing a surya namaskar was a daily morning routine. I guess, this is one of the health benefits of getting exposed to early morning sun.

medwards666 4y ago

So, Sting was wrong and Roxanne just had bad eyesight?

jamesgill 4y ago

I'd love to hear practical examples of how I can accomplish this long-wavelength exposure myself.

calebm 4y ago
Go look at the sun
bXVsbGVy 4y ago
"Deep red" leds. They are used to grow cannabis indoor, very easy to find.

chamwislothe2nd 4y ago

[dead]

guruz 4y ago

There is a huge compilation of PBM (photobiomodulation) research here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZKl5Me4XwPj4YgJCBes3VSCJjiVO4XI0tIR0rbMBj08/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZKl5Me4XwPj4YgJCBes3...

sriacha 4y ago
Wow, great resource. Do you know who put it together?
- dwich 4y ago
  It's by Vladimir Heiskanen. His blog hasn't been updated in a long time, but has articles explaining some of the principles behind red light therapy: http://valtsus.blogspot.com/ http://valtsus.blogspot.com/

mr_sturd 4y ago

Any low frequency sounds that can do this for hearing? Asking for a friend...

mark_l_watson 4y ago

One thing I did not get from the article: I try to spend 5 or 10 minutes outside at sunrise. Is this sufficient or are they talking about artificial red light?

ggm 4y ago

The 670 nm light devices were supplied by CH electronics (UK) and based on commercial DC torches with nine 670 nm LEDs mounted behind a light diffuser so that energies at the cornea were approximately 8 mW/cm2. 670 nm light was delivered down a white internally reflecting tube that fitted over the eye with an internal diameter of 3.2 cm. Based on subject’s perception the region of the retina illuminated was centred on the macular and extended into the equator but did not include the far periphery. Estimates of the exact retinal region of illumination are hard to derive because the pupil will variably close in response to the light. However, 670 nm will penetrate the iris33 and this will most likely be associated with scatter. The energy delivered at this wavelength is less than a log unit greater than that found in environmental light17. So.. based on commercially available LED technology.