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Massive pressure and incentives from the U.S. Just like everyone else who want to be in good standing with NATO. The “selection process” in Denmark was a total
by mikl 4y ago
Massive pressure and incentives from the U.S. Just like everyone else who want to be in good standing with NATO.
The “selection process” in Denmark was a total sham, most of the competitors didn’t even bother submitting a bid, because it was obvious from the start that the F-35 would win.
- Idiot_in_Vain 4y agoComplete nonsense. There are no alternatives to F35.
- gggggg5 4y agoWhich competitors? The J-20 or SU-57? Yeah, I wonder why those wouldn't be selected.
- DSingularity 4y agoEuro fighter? Typhoon? Rafale? Are none of these competitions?
- izacus 4y agoThey're generation older (with everything that means for their sensor suite, pilot workload and situational awarness) and won't have all the benefits of sharing the same platform with the rest of the Europe.
- gggggg5 4y agoThey're also more expensive.
- Octoth0rpe 4y ago> won't have all the benefits of sharing the same platform with the rest of the Europe. Buying the _eurofighter_ wouldn't let them share the same platform as the _rest of Europe_? I realize that the F-35 has racked up a number of sales recently, but there's quite a few eurofighters around still, and more on the way IIRC
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- izacus 4y agoYes, unsurprisingly more countries are procuring F-35 than the Typhoon. Eurofighter also costs about the same while being technologically less advanced, its A/G capability was bolted on after the fact.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mikl 4y agoSaab JAS 39 Gripen, Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale and Boeings Super Hornet were all possible options.
- daemoens 4y agoOnly the Rafale was any real competitor. The rest all have glaring issues that disqualify them immediately.
- speed_spread 4y agoWhat issues? The Crippen is a great plane.
- gggggg5 4y agoSo great that only Brazil was willing to buy them. And not at all because they were the best planes they could get, but because Brazil strongly prefers to not buy from the US and SAAB offered a great technology transfer deal.
- Gunnerhead 4y agoWhy does Brazil prefer to not buy from the US?
- gggggg5 4y agoPolitical reasons that may or may not make sense. Brazil would perhaps benefit in many ways by aligning themselves with the US, but for a variety of reasons they simply don't want to do that. In the fickle Brazilian political environment, not aligning with the US might end up being a rather pragmatic move. As a politician, who knows how badly your successor will fuck up those ties?
- mlindner 4y agoThere was no pressure from the U.S. to buy it and there are no incentives from the U.S. to buy it. And no there are plenty of NATO countries that care very much about indigenous hardware development and do not buy US hardware. The real reason is because the F-35 is in fact very cheap for what it does. Please don't jump on bandwagons. Here's a good video covering this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z_gTGJc7nQ&t=2219s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z_gTGJc7nQ&t=2219s
- mikl 4y ago> There was no pressure from the U.S. to buy it How would you know? Are you privy to all conversations between the Finnish and the U.S. government? > there are no incentives from the U.S. to buy it Right from the article itself: >> However, in what is a major win for the team behind HX, Lockheed Martin provided a unique tailored solution to Finland – one described in their BAFO-press statement to “includes many opportunities for the Finnish defense industry related to the direct manufacture and maintenance of the F-35 that have not been offered before.” Pretty much all buyers of the F-35 have been offered different sorts of kick-back deals, where they get to produce parts of the plane or handle maintenance, so the deal props up the national arms industry in some way or another. A nice boon for the politicians who can then brag about how they’re securing Finnish/Danish/Italian/whatever jobs.
- daemoens 4y ago> How would you know? Are you privy to all conversations between the Finnish and the U.S. government? Are you? How do you know they've happened?
- mikl 4y agoAt least in Denmark, it’s a bit of an open secret that the Danish government is unusually efficient and unanimous whenever decisions are made that help U.S. interests in some way or another. Like how Denmark have joined pretty much every U.S. war of aggression in recent history, despite having no interests at all in Afghanistan or the middle east.
- izacus 4y agoAlso the fact that it keeps proving to be an actually good plane by all standards with a price tag that's not all that higher than its competitors stuck with a full generation older design and all the downsides that brings. And augmented by the fact that a large chunk of Europe is going to be operating the same plane, driving down maintenance costs, sharing maintenance knowledge, reducing interoperability issues and ensuring that spare parts will be available.
- dachryn 4y agosame happened in Belgium, the US won over the French Jet. In hindsight nobody cares anymore, but it was a lot of public debate and very clear the decision was political and not merit based Hey, that has value, there is definitely a good case to be made for that. But just be open and honest about it instead of doing weird procurement steps
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mensetmanusman 4y agoEconomies of scale are a real thing.