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Kids play outside on the sidewalk/street in urban Chicago? I've never been to Chicago, but my wife went to school at University of Chicago, and she says she ne

Kids play outside on the sidewalk/street in urban Chicago? I've never been to Chicago, but my wife went to school at University of Chicago, and she says she never saw any such thing. The area around the university is pretty rough, but still. And I'm in downtown Portland all the time, and no, there are no kids playing on the sidewalk/street. Not even in the little urban parks, or at least very, very few.

deleted 4y ago
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tptacek 4y ago
What's "urban Chicago"? The loop? Kids do not play on the street in the loop. This is what the loop looks like: https://www.google.com/maps/place/jackson+and+lasalle+chicago/@41.8781484,-87.6318146,3a,75y,268.91h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sClednYDB0r5i6-h6rNNxzw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x880e2cbc4c686ba5:0xe43db217f2542b3f?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj30ubXx_P8AhUSg4kEHTHkAL4QxB16BAgPEAM https://www.google.com/maps/place/jackson+and+lasalle+chicag... Most of Chicago doesn't look like the loop. It's a big city. The University of Chicago is in Hyde Park, 10 minutes south of the loop. It's one of the safest neighborhoods in the city. This is what Hyde Park looks like: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7995114,-87.5981733,3a,75y,193.87h,95.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sxlzo0m5sP6AKyxo3-pGbCA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dxlzo0m5sP6AKyxo3-pGbCA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D108.0558%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7995114,-87.5981733,3a,75y,1... Kids play on the sidewalks and in the streets in Chicago all the time. I mean: of course they do? It's a city of 2.7 million people. Did you think all the kids were just kept inside all the time?
- hcurtiss 4y ago
  That second link sure looks to me like the R-1 developments the activists seem upset about. Yes, I would expect kids play there.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    That second link is what most of Chicago looks like. See for yourself: this site will generate totally random addresses in Chicago, and you can just copy them to Google Maps to see the street view. https://il.postcodebase.com/random_address_city/CHICAGO https://il.postcodebase.com/random_address_city/CHICAGO
    - hcurtiss 4y ago
      The point, I think, is that the elimination of zoning is meant to upset the R-1 style of development you say is prevalent in Chicago and that I agree is conducive to kids playing outside, on and off the street. Where you have high density mixed-use urban development, outside play of that nature is much, much less common, as evidenced by my examples in Portland.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        No, the alternative to R-1 development isn't "high density mixed use", it's 2-, 3-, and 4- flats. Pull up any random address from that site that's in Lakeview --- entirely RT-4 and above --- and you'll see kids playing on the street the same way. This is the problem with the zoning debate: people exclude the middle, and say that zoning is either good single-family regions where kids can play on the streets, or terrible industrial zones that look like Giede Prime. We don't have to carefully reason through the alternatives --- good, functioning cities are full of them.
      - kasey_junk 4y ago
        What about this: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7994972,-87.5942747,3a,75y,95.05h,95.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWTMPNixZHz_jeJ84Bss-TQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7994972,-87.5942747,3a,75y,9... Thats 3 blocks from the original link. Thats a park on the right that I saw kids playing outside in today when it was 2 degrees (F) out. https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8009554,-87.5937668,3a,75y,279.79h,95.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxQPiTa93FOe5UL4dvdUYEw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8009554,-87.5937668,3a,75y,2... Is the street I saw the pickleball kids playing on last summer. It's one block away from my first link.
kasey_junk 4y ago
Lol. I’ve lived in Hyde Park or Woodlawn (the neighborhoods around UofC) for over 20 years. It’s not rough and kids play in the streets and sidewalks all the time. Soccer, baseball and hockey are very common, along with skateboarding and variations of tag. I’ve recently seen kids playing pickle ball which seems like they should be made fun of for. Basketball is less common than where I grew up in Indiana but that’s because there are a ton of courts in the parks.
- hcurtiss 4y ago
  Cole said while he doesn't believe he was targeted Tuesday afternoon, he has been shot at in the past, in 2018 and in June of this year as well. Kilwins, a popular Hyde Park ice cream shop, was damaged in the shooting. The shop's owner and employees spoke Wednesday about their safety concerns in returning to work, and Cole returned to where he was shot at. "We need the partner in federal government to step up. Somebody has to have a sense of urgency," he said. "You can't nonprofit your way out of this. We can't program our way out of these shootings," he said. According to the city's Violence Reduction Dashboard, as of Nov. 8 shootings in the neighborhood have more than tripled compared to 2020, with 16 this year compared to five last year. The same data shows that for violent crimes of all time, Hyde Park has had 196 so far this year, up from 155 in the same period in 2020. Kilwins owner Jackie Jackson said the most recent violent crime, along with increasing rent and fewer customers, may force her to close the business she opened nearly 10 years ago. https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-hyde-park-u-of-c-jahmal-cole/11218774/ https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-hyde-park-u-of-c-ja...
  - kasey_junk 4y ago
    You're referencing an article about one of the most shocking violent incidents in Hyde Park memory. In 2021, Jahmal Cole was a congressional candidate who was shot at (though not injured) while visiting Hyde Park in a crime they never determined the motif for. If you go look at the actual Violence Reduction Dashboard referenced in the article you'll see that Hyde Park has less shootings per capita than the loop and the near north side. Its tiered in the safest neighborhoods in Chicago. Its used as an example of what the Dashboard calls "The Safety Gap" to distinguish how much safer some neighborhoods are than others. Chicago has a violent crime problem, in some neighborhoods its an absolute multiple generation failure and an outrage. But if you aren't comfortable with Hyde Park's crime rate, you aren't comfortable anywhere in Chicago or you have some other bias at play. Thats fine! Feel free to make your own choices about where you go but Hyde Park isn't rough by any American statistical observation. And it certainly isn't germane to whether kids play outside! You'll find that in the absolute roughest neighborhoods in Chicago as well as the poshest.
ChainOfFools 4y ago
kids living in the pearl district or anywhere on the west side south of there, up to and including lake Oswego, are going to be living in million dollar-plus homes and condos, and have parents with plenty of resources to keep them busy in safe environments outsude school.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

tptacek 4y ago

What's "urban Chicago"? The loop? Kids do not play on the street in the loop. This is what the loop looks like: https://www.google.com/maps/place/jackson+and+lasalle+chicago/@41.8781484,-87.6318146,3a,75y,268.91h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sClednYDB0r5i6-h6rNNxzw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x880e2cbc4c686ba5:0xe43db217f2542b3f?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj30ubXx_P8AhUSg4kEHTHkAL4QxB16BAgPEAM https://www.google.com/maps/place/jackson+and+lasalle+chicag... Most of Chicago doesn't look like the loop. It's a big city. The University of Chicago is in Hyde Park, 10 minutes south of the loop. It's one of the safest neighborhoods in the city. This is what Hyde Park looks like: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7995114,-87.5981733,3a,75y,193.87h,95.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sxlzo0m5sP6AKyxo3-pGbCA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dxlzo0m5sP6AKyxo3-pGbCA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D108.0558%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7995114,-87.5981733,3a,75y,1... Kids play on the sidewalks and in the streets in Chicago all the time. I mean: of course they do? It's a city of 2.7 million people. Did you think all the kids were just kept inside all the time?

hcurtiss 4y ago
That second link sure looks to me like the R-1 developments the activists seem upset about. Yes, I would expect kids play there.
- tptacek 4y ago
  That second link is what most of Chicago looks like. See for yourself: this site will generate totally random addresses in Chicago, and you can just copy them to Google Maps to see the street view. https://il.postcodebase.com/random_address_city/CHICAGO https://il.postcodebase.com/random_address_city/CHICAGO
  - hcurtiss 4y ago
    The point, I think, is that the elimination of zoning is meant to upset the R-1 style of development you say is prevalent in Chicago and that I agree is conducive to kids playing outside, on and off the street. Where you have high density mixed-use urban development, outside play of that nature is much, much less common, as evidenced by my examples in Portland.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      No, the alternative to R-1 development isn't "high density mixed use", it's 2-, 3-, and 4- flats. Pull up any random address from that site that's in Lakeview --- entirely RT-4 and above --- and you'll see kids playing on the street the same way. This is the problem with the zoning debate: people exclude the middle, and say that zoning is either good single-family regions where kids can play on the streets, or terrible industrial zones that look like Giede Prime. We don't have to carefully reason through the alternatives --- good, functioning cities are full of them.
    - kasey_junk 4y ago
      What about this: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7994972,-87.5942747,3a,75y,95.05h,95.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWTMPNixZHz_jeJ84Bss-TQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7994972,-87.5942747,3a,75y,9... Thats 3 blocks from the original link. Thats a park on the right that I saw kids playing outside in today when it was 2 degrees (F) out. https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8009554,-87.5937668,3a,75y,279.79h,95.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxQPiTa93FOe5UL4dvdUYEw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8009554,-87.5937668,3a,75y,2... Is the street I saw the pickleball kids playing on last summer. It's one block away from my first link.

kasey_junk 4y ago

Lol. I’ve lived in Hyde Park or Woodlawn (the neighborhoods around UofC) for over 20 years. It’s not rough and kids play in the streets and sidewalks all the time. Soccer, baseball and hockey are very common, along with skateboarding and variations of tag. I’ve recently seen kids playing pickle ball which seems like they should be made fun of for. Basketball is less common than where I grew up in Indiana but that’s because there are a ton of courts in the parks.

hcurtiss 4y ago
Cole said while he doesn't believe he was targeted Tuesday afternoon, he has been shot at in the past, in 2018 and in June of this year as well. Kilwins, a popular Hyde Park ice cream shop, was damaged in the shooting. The shop's owner and employees spoke Wednesday about their safety concerns in returning to work, and Cole returned to where he was shot at. "We need the partner in federal government to step up. Somebody has to have a sense of urgency," he said. "You can't nonprofit your way out of this. We can't program our way out of these shootings," he said. According to the city's Violence Reduction Dashboard, as of Nov. 8 shootings in the neighborhood have more than tripled compared to 2020, with 16 this year compared to five last year. The same data shows that for violent crimes of all time, Hyde Park has had 196 so far this year, up from 155 in the same period in 2020. Kilwins owner Jackie Jackson said the most recent violent crime, along with increasing rent and fewer customers, may force her to close the business she opened nearly 10 years ago. https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-hyde-park-u-of-c-jahmal-cole/11218774/ https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-hyde-park-u-of-c-ja...
- kasey_junk 4y ago
  You're referencing an article about one of the most shocking violent incidents in Hyde Park memory. In 2021, Jahmal Cole was a congressional candidate who was shot at (though not injured) while visiting Hyde Park in a crime they never determined the motif for. If you go look at the actual Violence Reduction Dashboard referenced in the article you'll see that Hyde Park has less shootings per capita than the loop and the near north side. Its tiered in the safest neighborhoods in Chicago. Its used as an example of what the Dashboard calls "The Safety Gap" to distinguish how much safer some neighborhoods are than others. Chicago has a violent crime problem, in some neighborhoods its an absolute multiple generation failure and an outrage. But if you aren't comfortable with Hyde Park's crime rate, you aren't comfortable anywhere in Chicago or you have some other bias at play. Thats fine! Feel free to make your own choices about where you go but Hyde Park isn't rough by any American statistical observation. And it certainly isn't germane to whether kids play outside! You'll find that in the absolute roughest neighborhoods in Chicago as well as the poshest.

ChainOfFools 4y ago

kids living in the pearl district or anywhere on the west side south of there, up to and including lake Oswego, are going to be living in million dollar-plus homes and condos, and have parents with plenty of resources to keep them busy in safe environments outsude school.