4 ms·

Sweden has yet to prove it has any value as an ally either.

by throwawaysleep 4y ago

wahern 4y ago
Nearly $1 billion USD in assistance to Ukraine, more than half of which is military material, isn't nothing.
- ralusek 4y ago
  materiel*
bee_rider 4y ago
The two countries are moving into NATO together, they are practically married.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > The two countries are moving into NATO together, they are practically married. I think this is what you meant, but it could be misread: the former is a sign, not the cause, of the latter. They’ve had aligned security policy for a long time, which is reflected in their joint decision to choose to apply to NATO.
  - enra 4y ago
    This time it was Finland that pushing them both to NATO. Finland had friendly pack with Sweden that if either of them decide to pursue NATO membership they would let the other one know. Last year by the time Finnish leadership and people were pretty much decided on NATO, Sweden was just starting their discourse so they had to catch up not be left behind. Now somewhat ironically because of Sweden, Turkey has been delaying and objecting the membership. Finland has also kept with updating equipment and keeping the conscription military service these past 100 years, Sweden ended their conscription and mostly been downsizing their military.
    - progre 4y ago
      Conscription is starting up again.
    - georgeecollins 4y ago
      That is probably true, but it is worth noting that when people war gamed out a swift capture of any Baltic state (kind of like what happened in Crimea) one of the frequent moves of the Russian player was to capture Gotland, which made NATO reinforcement very difficult. Also, it showed that while Sweden has a capable air force and good naval assets in the baltic, it still might have trouble defending Gotland in the future. I don't think anyone thinks an attack on Gotland was ever likely, and it certainly isn't now, but if Russia's goal was to bring back all the former states of the Soviet Union, the Baltic states are on that list. And that gets pretty difficult for those two countries to stay neutral. Finland was once part of Russia too and they have a contentious history.
- trashtester 4y ago
  At the moment, Turkey is blocking Sweden from joining, but not Finland.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    I’m pretty sure Finland and Sweden are sticking together though, at least that’s what I read last. Finland seems like a good get for NATO, so it is nice that they are willing to stick with their neighbor.
    - trashtester 4y ago
      A few days ago, Finland was considering going alone, now it appears they will wait for Sweden to be accepted. At least for a while. Anyway, both Sweden and Finland have much to offer NATO.
bell-cot 4y ago
Geography suggests that Sweden would be an extremely reliable ally for Finland in any conflict with Russia. Assuming that Sweden didn't want to be the next domino to fall.

Sweden has yet to prove it has any value as an ally either.

wahern 4y ago

Nearly $1 billion USD in assistance to Ukraine, more than half of which is military material, isn't nothing.

ralusek 4y ago
materiel*

bee_rider 4y ago

The two countries are moving into NATO together, they are practically married.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> The two countries are moving into NATO together, they are practically married. I think this is what you meant, but it could be misread: the former is a sign, not the cause, of the latter. They’ve had aligned security policy for a long time, which is reflected in their joint decision to choose to apply to NATO.
- enra 4y ago
  This time it was Finland that pushing them both to NATO. Finland had friendly pack with Sweden that if either of them decide to pursue NATO membership they would let the other one know. Last year by the time Finnish leadership and people were pretty much decided on NATO, Sweden was just starting their discourse so they had to catch up not be left behind. Now somewhat ironically because of Sweden, Turkey has been delaying and objecting the membership. Finland has also kept with updating equipment and keeping the conscription military service these past 100 years, Sweden ended their conscription and mostly been downsizing their military.
  - progre 4y ago
    Conscription is starting up again.
  - georgeecollins 4y ago
    That is probably true, but it is worth noting that when people war gamed out a swift capture of any Baltic state (kind of like what happened in Crimea) one of the frequent moves of the Russian player was to capture Gotland, which made NATO reinforcement very difficult. Also, it showed that while Sweden has a capable air force and good naval assets in the baltic, it still might have trouble defending Gotland in the future. I don't think anyone thinks an attack on Gotland was ever likely, and it certainly isn't now, but if Russia's goal was to bring back all the former states of the Soviet Union, the Baltic states are on that list. And that gets pretty difficult for those two countries to stay neutral. Finland was once part of Russia too and they have a contentious history.
trashtester 4y ago
At the moment, Turkey is blocking Sweden from joining, but not Finland.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  I’m pretty sure Finland and Sweden are sticking together though, at least that’s what I read last. Finland seems like a good get for NATO, so it is nice that they are willing to stick with their neighbor.
  - trashtester 4y ago
    A few days ago, Finland was considering going alone, now it appears they will wait for Sweden to be accepted. At least for a while. Anyway, both Sweden and Finland have much to offer NATO.

bell-cot 4y ago

Geography suggests that Sweden would be an extremely reliable ally for Finland in any conflict with Russia. Assuming that Sweden didn't want to be the next domino to fall.