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Either your batteries were old[1], or you're overlooking something else that might have caused increased self-discharge, such as high humidity. Some will say it

Either your batteries were old[1], or you're overlooking something else that might have caused increased self-discharge, such as high humidity. Some will say it was a myth, but it was true at one time. What is a myth is that storing cylindrical cells in your freezer will slow self-discharge, and while it is proven cold storage will reduce self-discharge, the problem with a consumer freezer or refrigerator is that they are humid, so any gains the cold would provide are more than defeated by the humidity, which not only will increase self-discharge, it can damage and short a cell. The humidity in a consumer-grade freezer drastically increases to 80%-95%RH twice a day and slowly drops over several hours. The best place to store cells is in a cool, dry location. And cells are cheap and readily available, and storing cells for years in a freezer, even if it worked, would be wasting a ton of energy just to save a tiny amount of energy, which, again, wouldn't happen anyway. [1] https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/general-science-you-asked/concrete-truth-about-batteries-stored-concrete https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/general-science-you-asked/...

amelius 4y ago
Sounds like you could store them in the freezer, but e.g. in a vacuum sealed bag.
- Maursault 4y ago
  As long as it is vacuum sealed from moisture, with all the air evacuated, and not just a ZipLoc bag out of which you "pressed all the air." Otherwise, the air inside the bag is the same air as where it was sealed, maybe the 50%RH of the air in a climate controlled home and kitchen, and temperature changes will cause the vapor in the air to precipitate out into moisture, and back to vapor, and this repeats every time the temperature fluctuates, which usually is twice a day as part of a freezer's frost cycle. But then you are still using far more energy, and money, to save a minuscule amount lost from self-discharge. Li-ion cells have low self-discharge and only lose about 15% capacity per year. LSD NiMH cells like Eneloop lose about 30% capacity after 5 years. Alkaline cells, surprisingly, lose only 2-3% per year in self-discharge. LiFeS2 cells, like Energizer Ultimate Lithium, have an extremely low self-discharge rate, well under 1% per year, and have more than a 10 year shelf life, though they'll probably hold charge for at least 20 years of dry storage. I wonder what it would amount to in mAh to lower the temperature of cells to below freezing and maintain that temperature for a year. You'd probably lose in a contest with someone panning gold out of a bottle of Goldschläger.
TecoAndJix 4y ago
The latest episode of HBO's "The Last of Us" shows a prepper with this freezer setup for a car battery https://static1.colliderimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/the-last-of-us-battery.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=1500&dpr=1.5 https://static1.colliderimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uplo...
- Maursault 4y ago
  Episode 3. Awesome, and I'm not even a fan of the game. I don't game, but I actually enjoy watching others play games. I tried to watch a play through on YouTube. Amazing, incredible graphics. But booooriiing. Reminded me a lot of Myst, but far less primitive. FWIW, there's no battery in that screen grab, for a car or otherwise. I'm not sure what is in that refrigerator (freezers rarely have grated shelves, at least, I've only seen them in floor freezers), but it isn't a car battery. Maybe it's components for a battery, though. I wondered at why they chose to show that shot.
  - markdown 4y ago
    > FWIW, there's no battery in that screen grab, for a car or otherwise All the components of a car battery. You can see the lead on the right.
    - Maursault 4y ago
      Where's the case?[0] I also don't see the point of lowering the temperature of a plastic battery lid. It's an insulator. I guess it would keep dust off it, though. [0] https://d3as1itr0z6zbr.cloudfront.net/assets/marketingContent/1663829981297.jpg https://d3as1itr0z6zbr.cloudfront.net/assets/marketingConten...
      - usea 4y ago
        The lid was so they can concisely communicate to the average viewer that we're looking at components for a battery.
      - tass 4y ago
robocat 4y ago
> The humidity in a consumer-grade freezer drastically increases to 80%-95%RH twice a day and slowly drops over several hours I guess you are talking about the frost-free function? https://home.howstuffworks.com/question144.htm https://home.howstuffworks.com/question144.htm Do you have any references - I can’t imagine why the RH would stay so high for hours (rather than a shorter period).

amelius 4y ago

Sounds like you could store them in the freezer, but e.g. in a vacuum sealed bag.

Maursault 4y ago
As long as it is vacuum sealed from moisture, with all the air evacuated, and not just a ZipLoc bag out of which you "pressed all the air." Otherwise, the air inside the bag is the same air as where it was sealed, maybe the 50%RH of the air in a climate controlled home and kitchen, and temperature changes will cause the vapor in the air to precipitate out into moisture, and back to vapor, and this repeats every time the temperature fluctuates, which usually is twice a day as part of a freezer's frost cycle. But then you are still using far more energy, and money, to save a minuscule amount lost from self-discharge. Li-ion cells have low self-discharge and only lose about 15% capacity per year. LSD NiMH cells like Eneloop lose about 30% capacity after 5 years. Alkaline cells, surprisingly, lose only 2-3% per year in self-discharge. LiFeS2 cells, like Energizer Ultimate Lithium, have an extremely low self-discharge rate, well under 1% per year, and have more than a 10 year shelf life, though they'll probably hold charge for at least 20 years of dry storage. I wonder what it would amount to in mAh to lower the temperature of cells to below freezing and maintain that temperature for a year. You'd probably lose in a contest with someone panning gold out of a bottle of Goldschläger.

TecoAndJix 4y ago

The latest episode of HBO's "The Last of Us" shows a prepper with this freezer setup for a car battery https://static1.colliderimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/the-last-of-us-battery.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=1500&dpr=1.5 https://static1.colliderimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uplo...

Maursault 4y ago
Episode 3. Awesome, and I'm not even a fan of the game. I don't game, but I actually enjoy watching others play games. I tried to watch a play through on YouTube. Amazing, incredible graphics. But booooriiing. Reminded me a lot of Myst, but far less primitive. FWIW, there's no battery in that screen grab, for a car or otherwise. I'm not sure what is in that refrigerator (freezers rarely have grated shelves, at least, I've only seen them in floor freezers), but it isn't a car battery. Maybe it's components for a battery, though. I wondered at why they chose to show that shot.
- markdown 4y ago
  > FWIW, there's no battery in that screen grab, for a car or otherwise All the components of a car battery. You can see the lead on the right.
  - Maursault 4y ago
    Where's the case?[0] I also don't see the point of lowering the temperature of a plastic battery lid. It's an insulator. I guess it would keep dust off it, though. [0] https://d3as1itr0z6zbr.cloudfront.net/assets/marketingContent/1663829981297.jpg https://d3as1itr0z6zbr.cloudfront.net/assets/marketingConten...
    - usea 4y ago
      The lid was so they can concisely communicate to the average viewer that we're looking at components for a battery.
    - tass 4y ago

robocat 4y ago

> The humidity in a consumer-grade freezer drastically increases to 80%-95%RH twice a day and slowly drops over several hours I guess you are talking about the frost-free function? https://home.howstuffworks.com/question144.htm https://home.howstuffworks.com/question144.htm Do you have any references - I can’t imagine why the RH would stay so high for hours (rather than a shorter period).