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Oh boy, here we go. Very curious to see how stringent they are going to be in enforcing this. This is going to disrupt a lot of multi-generational families who

Oh boy, here we go. Very curious to see how stringent they are going to be in enforcing this. This is going to disrupt a lot of multi-generational families who share an account but don't all live under the same roof.

tptacek 4y ago
What does "multi-generational" have to do with anything? My mom doesn't live under my roof, and also I have no business sharing my Netflix account with her.
- malfist 4y ago
  My parents don't live with me and yet they are part of my phone plan. Like netflix I pay a little extra so they can be on it as well as I can. Why is it unreasonable to share an account?
  - tptacek 4y ago
    For the same reason you can't "share" your cable with your neighbors. Nobody cares that you're related. If you live in different households, you were obviously meant to get different accounts.
    - chimeracoder 4y ago
      > If you live in different households, you were obviously meant to get different accounts. I don't see why that's "obvious". Not only is that the way many other plans work (see: cell phone plans), it's literally how Netflix itself marketed the service for years.
    - malfist 4y ago
      > you were obviously meant to get different accounts Here's a tweet from netflix itself about how great it is to share accounts: https://twitter.com/netflix/status/840276073040371712 https://twitter.com/netflix/status/840276073040371712
      - tptacek 4y ago
        Give me a break. Netflix has been saying they were going to shut this stuff down for at least 2 years now.
  - mc32 4y ago
    It's kind of up to the service provider to establish their terms and it's up to you to decide if you are willing to enter into those terms. Some services are per account per device, some are more permissive and some provide discounts when you add more users to a main account. But, it's not a birthright of any kind.
- LamaOfRuin 4y ago
  Except for how they actively encouraged it for years.
  - mc32 4y ago
    That does not follow. Now, that is separate from the argument that because they didn't strictly enforce their ToS, that people now feel entitled to something and may drive some people away from the service.
    - ncallaway 4y ago
      There's a real difference between "didn't strictly enforce their terms of service" and "actively encouraged a behavior". They definitely did the latter.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        Not for the last several years, they haven't.
        ncallaway 4y ago
        Okay, but I have a memory longer than the last several years. I signed up for Netflix more than several years ago. It reminds me of the West Wing series where President Bartlett is mad that his wife expects him to hold to the promise of talking to her before he makes the decision to run again. He says: "Damn it Abbey! That was 4 years ago!", as if a promise expires because it's old. Now, Netflix didn't make a promise, but they did set consumer expectations about their service. And that expectation doesn't expire just because it's old. I mean, they obviously have every right to change their behavior, but it's totally reasonable to point out that this is a change in their behavior, and a change in the agreement between them and the consumer (maybe not a literal change in the TOS, but a change in the practical agreement that we had).
      - mc32 4y ago
        I don't recall their marketing, but I'll take your word for it. If that was so, then they will reap what they sowed and that's on the Marketing head to step up and come correct --they should have known this was coming (both the need and the blowback). However, they can change their ToS after the current agreement is over with each customer.
- mouse_ 4y ago
  You wouldn't even share your netflix account with your own mother? That's ice cold.
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    I may not want her to know what I watch. I certainly don’t want her to accidentally use my profile and mess up my recommendations.
    - tssva 4y ago
      You can set a passcode for your profile.
      - andsoitis 4y ago
        That would be very tedious if I have to enter a passcode to watch in my own home on my TV.
        Dylan16807 4y ago
        Two extra seconds of input when starting Netflix wouldn't bother me. Shouldn't take longer than that to enter a PIN.
- dandellion 4y ago
  My mom doesn't know how sign up for Neflix, so she's been using my account on her phone for a long time. I only keep the subscription because she uses it, I would have cancelled long ago if it was up to me. I doubt I'm the only one that will just cancel if Netflix stops account sharing, and my mom won't sign up if she has to pay a subscription.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    That's perfectly fine. If your household isn't using Netflix, you should cancel it.
    - dandellion 4y ago
      I use it a couple of times a year, the reason I keep it is that my mom likes it, so I'd prefer to keep the status quo going, but if Netflix changes it I probably should cancel it, yes.
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    You can just do the sign up for her, no?
    - dandellion 4y ago
      Like I said, I'm sure she will not want to pay for Netflix herself, and while I wouldn't mind paying it for her if she'll use it, she probably won't like that either. Part of the reason she's OK with me paying is that she thinks I'd be paying for it anyway and she's just tagging along, but I'm not getting nearly enough value out of it to pay for it, even less to pay for two accounts. I could sign her up without telling her, but I'd rather not. Maybe I'll stop using the account altogether so only my mom is using it and hopefully that doesn't trigger the monthly check-ins for her, but if it does I'll probably just unsubscribe and look for something more convenient.
  - smugma 4y ago
    Millions will cancel. Their hope is more will join. If it doesn’t work, they will roll back (and apologize), as they did with Flixter/Quikster/DVDs a decade+ ago.
- _Algernon_ 4y ago
  You literally pay for a number of parallel streams, i.e. screens. It shouldn't matter whether those screens are where I am or on Mars if you paid for a subscription that includes them. E2A: From their own marketing of their subscriptions: >Watch on 4 different devices at the same time with Premium, 2 with Standard and 1 with Basic.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    Clearly you do not.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- neogodless 4y ago
  What does a "roof" have to do with internet content you pay for? Answer: nothing! Their 4k plan wording: "Watch on 4 supported devices at a time" OK - I pay them, we use up to 4 supported devices at a time. End of story! What's next, you can't get a 4-line cell phone plan unless all 4 lines are "under the same roof"? Makes just about the same amount of sense! The "live together" limitation is being added for "business" reasons to charge more for the same service. There's no way to get 4K without paying for 4 simultaneous screens, but they're making a new limitation so you have to pay for 8 simultaneous screens to still get 4k if there's a second roof involved. Give me a 1 stream, 4K plan for $10/month and I'll be happy to pay for a second plan for my in-laws (who watch 1 or 2 episode a week)!
  - tptacek 4y ago
    As Netflix is making clear, you're not paying for 4 households to use their service, but rather 4 devices within the household. There's a lot of gaslighting going on here: in the main, people who were sharing their Netflix accounts with their parents, siblings across town (cough), LDRs, and kids at college knew they were stretching the limits of what these services intended. If they weren't, there wouldn't be a name ("password sharing") for the phenomenon.
    - neogodless 4y ago
      Correct. Netflix is making it clear that while they created a 4K, 4-stream plan, and millions subscribed to it, they've changed the terms to add physical geography limitations to an internet content plan. They've changed the terms, and people on the wrong end of that change are unhappy with the change, with good reason. It's not gaslighting to have situations where you pay for something under terms of a contract, and the contract changes. Why are you all for Netflix's term change? It seems like it's worse for consumers, and I fall into the "consumer" bucket, so I dislike it. Are you suggesting consumers suck it up, keep their mouths shut, and submit to corporate overlords? Or are we allowed to complain that the terms of the agreement have been altered, and we'd like them to please not alter them further. And I'm not saying they can't make the change. Just that it is clearly worse for me. If it's enforced, the change in value proposition will be significant enough that I will opt out of it. We're a family without kids, but with in-laws. Why should kids living at home with lots of screens be favored by Netflix over a family like mine? Either way, I pay for the number of simultaneous screens, as per the previous version of the agreement. Ah yes - they want to squeeze more money out of my particular family arrangement. I feel entitled to complain about it, and take this change in contract as an opportunity to end it.
das_keyboard 4y ago
this. I would have no problem with paying a little fee to allow a second primary location. But I don't suspect my parents will go through the hassle to create and pay for a separate Netflix account. Secondly, I don't know if I could justify paying for a Netflix account just for myself.
HDThoreaun 4y ago
netflix was already pretty expensive for the 4k service. Really don't see how it's worth $20 a month when I can't split it with my family anymore.

tptacek 4y ago

What does "multi-generational" have to do with anything? My mom doesn't live under my roof, and also I have no business sharing my Netflix account with her.

malfist 4y ago
My parents don't live with me and yet they are part of my phone plan. Like netflix I pay a little extra so they can be on it as well as I can. Why is it unreasonable to share an account?
- tptacek 4y ago
  For the same reason you can't "share" your cable with your neighbors. Nobody cares that you're related. If you live in different households, you were obviously meant to get different accounts.
  - chimeracoder 4y ago
    > If you live in different households, you were obviously meant to get different accounts. I don't see why that's "obvious". Not only is that the way many other plans work (see: cell phone plans), it's literally how Netflix itself marketed the service for years.
  - malfist 4y ago
    > you were obviously meant to get different accounts Here's a tweet from netflix itself about how great it is to share accounts: https://twitter.com/netflix/status/840276073040371712 https://twitter.com/netflix/status/840276073040371712
    - tptacek 4y ago
      Give me a break. Netflix has been saying they were going to shut this stuff down for at least 2 years now.
- mc32 4y ago
  It's kind of up to the service provider to establish their terms and it's up to you to decide if you are willing to enter into those terms. Some services are per account per device, some are more permissive and some provide discounts when you add more users to a main account. But, it's not a birthright of any kind.
LamaOfRuin 4y ago
Except for how they actively encouraged it for years.
- mc32 4y ago
  That does not follow. Now, that is separate from the argument that because they didn't strictly enforce their ToS, that people now feel entitled to something and may drive some people away from the service.
  - ncallaway 4y ago
    There's a real difference between "didn't strictly enforce their terms of service" and "actively encouraged a behavior". They definitely did the latter.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      Not for the last several years, they haven't.
      - ncallaway 4y ago
        Okay, but I have a memory longer than the last several years. I signed up for Netflix more than several years ago. It reminds me of the West Wing series where President Bartlett is mad that his wife expects him to hold to the promise of talking to her before he makes the decision to run again. He says: "Damn it Abbey! That was 4 years ago!", as if a promise expires because it's old. Now, Netflix didn't make a promise, but they did set consumer expectations about their service. And that expectation doesn't expire just because it's old. I mean, they obviously have every right to change their behavior, but it's totally reasonable to point out that this is a change in their behavior, and a change in the agreement between them and the consumer (maybe not a literal change in the TOS, but a change in the practical agreement that we had).
    - mc32 4y ago
      I don't recall their marketing, but I'll take your word for it. If that was so, then they will reap what they sowed and that's on the Marketing head to step up and come correct --they should have known this was coming (both the need and the blowback). However, they can change their ToS after the current agreement is over with each customer.
mouse_ 4y ago
You wouldn't even share your netflix account with your own mother? That's ice cold.
- andsoitis 4y ago
  I may not want her to know what I watch. I certainly don’t want her to accidentally use my profile and mess up my recommendations.
  - tssva 4y ago
    You can set a passcode for your profile.
    - andsoitis 4y ago
      That would be very tedious if I have to enter a passcode to watch in my own home on my TV.
      - Dylan16807 4y ago
        Two extra seconds of input when starting Netflix wouldn't bother me. Shouldn't take longer than that to enter a PIN.
dandellion 4y ago
My mom doesn't know how sign up for Neflix, so she's been using my account on her phone for a long time. I only keep the subscription because she uses it, I would have cancelled long ago if it was up to me. I doubt I'm the only one that will just cancel if Netflix stops account sharing, and my mom won't sign up if she has to pay a subscription.
- tptacek 4y ago
  That's perfectly fine. If your household isn't using Netflix, you should cancel it.
  - dandellion 4y ago
    I use it a couple of times a year, the reason I keep it is that my mom likes it, so I'd prefer to keep the status quo going, but if Netflix changes it I probably should cancel it, yes.
- andsoitis 4y ago
  You can just do the sign up for her, no?
  - dandellion 4y ago
    Like I said, I'm sure she will not want to pay for Netflix herself, and while I wouldn't mind paying it for her if she'll use it, she probably won't like that either. Part of the reason she's OK with me paying is that she thinks I'd be paying for it anyway and she's just tagging along, but I'm not getting nearly enough value out of it to pay for it, even less to pay for two accounts. I could sign her up without telling her, but I'd rather not. Maybe I'll stop using the account altogether so only my mom is using it and hopefully that doesn't trigger the monthly check-ins for her, but if it does I'll probably just unsubscribe and look for something more convenient.
- smugma 4y ago
  Millions will cancel. Their hope is more will join. If it doesn’t work, they will roll back (and apologize), as they did with Flixter/Quikster/DVDs a decade+ ago.
_Algernon_ 4y ago
You literally pay for a number of parallel streams, i.e. screens. It shouldn't matter whether those screens are where I am or on Mars if you paid for a subscription that includes them. E2A: From their own marketing of their subscriptions: >Watch on 4 different devices at the same time with Premium, 2 with Standard and 1 with Basic.
- tptacek 4y ago
  Clearly you do not.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
neogodless 4y ago
What does a "roof" have to do with internet content you pay for? Answer: nothing! Their 4k plan wording: "Watch on 4 supported devices at a time" OK - I pay them, we use up to 4 supported devices at a time. End of story! What's next, you can't get a 4-line cell phone plan unless all 4 lines are "under the same roof"? Makes just about the same amount of sense! The "live together" limitation is being added for "business" reasons to charge more for the same service. There's no way to get 4K without paying for 4 simultaneous screens, but they're making a new limitation so you have to pay for 8 simultaneous screens to still get 4k if there's a second roof involved. Give me a 1 stream, 4K plan for $10/month and I'll be happy to pay for a second plan for my in-laws (who watch 1 or 2 episode a week)!
- tptacek 4y ago
  As Netflix is making clear, you're not paying for 4 households to use their service, but rather 4 devices within the household. There's a lot of gaslighting going on here: in the main, people who were sharing their Netflix accounts with their parents, siblings across town (cough), LDRs, and kids at college knew they were stretching the limits of what these services intended. If they weren't, there wouldn't be a name ("password sharing") for the phenomenon.
  - neogodless 4y ago
    Correct. Netflix is making it clear that while they created a 4K, 4-stream plan, and millions subscribed to it, they've changed the terms to add physical geography limitations to an internet content plan. They've changed the terms, and people on the wrong end of that change are unhappy with the change, with good reason. It's not gaslighting to have situations where you pay for something under terms of a contract, and the contract changes. Why are you all for Netflix's term change? It seems like it's worse for consumers, and I fall into the "consumer" bucket, so I dislike it. Are you suggesting consumers suck it up, keep their mouths shut, and submit to corporate overlords? Or are we allowed to complain that the terms of the agreement have been altered, and we'd like them to please not alter them further. And I'm not saying they can't make the change. Just that it is clearly worse for me. If it's enforced, the change in value proposition will be significant enough that I will opt out of it. We're a family without kids, but with in-laws. Why should kids living at home with lots of screens be favored by Netflix over a family like mine? Either way, I pay for the number of simultaneous screens, as per the previous version of the agreement. Ah yes - they want to squeeze more money out of my particular family arrangement. I feel entitled to complain about it, and take this change in contract as an opportunity to end it.

das_keyboard 4y ago

this. I would have no problem with paying a little fee to allow a second primary location. But I don't suspect my parents will go through the hassle to create and pay for a separate Netflix account. Secondly, I don't know if I could justify paying for a Netflix account just for myself.

HDThoreaun 4y ago

netflix was already pretty expensive for the 4k service. Really don't see how it's worth $20 a month when I can't split it with my family anymore.