8 ms·

I’m in Europe and hardly ever receive unsolicited SMS or phone calls. Somehow, at least to me, this seems like a US problem. Why is that? What does EU do that i

I’m in Europe and hardly ever receive unsolicited SMS or phone calls. Somehow, at least to me, this seems like a US problem. Why is that? What does EU do that it is not a problem here? Or does it just mean that we have a ‘business opportunity’ here?

watwut 4y ago
Afaik, some aspect of it is just not legal. And when someone calls you, you have right to ask to be removed from database and they have to remove you.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dottedmag 4y ago
Looks like it depends on the local regulatory agency. I have never had a spam SMS or call in Norway, while on Malta it's a regular occurrence, thought not as bad as described by US folks.
- codetrotter 4y ago
  I live in Norway. I’ve received both SMS spam and scam phone calls. However, it is still a rare occurrence. Only a few times per year.
scooke 4y ago
I was a micro-entrepeneur, or auto-entrepeneur, in France, and unsolicited calls and messages started the very next day I registered. Don't ask me the about the email spam.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
reaperducer 4y ago
I’m in Europe and hardly ever receive unsolicited SMS or phone calls. Somehow, at least to me, this seems like a US problem. Every single time the subject of robocalls or spam texts is brought up on HN, someone claiming to be from Europe shows up to ask why it's a U.S.-only problem. Then people from Germany and France and Greece and the U.K., and elsewhere in Europe show up and say how they have to deal with it, too, and it's not just an American thing. In my RSS feed are several European news sources, and they all talk about robocalls occasionally. Who are these apparently very few people in Europe who allegedly have never dealt with telephonic spam, and why do they always feel the need to talk about their personal situation when it has no bearing on the discussion at hand? You state that you "hardly ever receive unsolicited SMS or phone calls." I'm in America, and I too get unsolicited messages "hardly ever": about one unsolicited SMS per month, and spam phone calls about six times a year on my work phone, and maybe once each year on my personal phone. Don't delude yourself into believing that every phone in the nation is flooded with spam all the time.
- foobiekr 4y ago
  Another aspect is language. A lot of the calls are from india and Pakistan where English fluency is high and non-English European fluency is very low.
  - grammers 4y ago
    I agree, that's the most likely reason. You can't to robocalls in German or Italian because cost it too high...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kostarelo 4y ago
  Greek here and I can tell you for sure that it's a big issue here, especially robocalls the past few years.
- tifik 4y ago
  I spend roughly 50% of time in Canada and the other 50% in Europe, mostly Czech Republic. I have two phones, and usually just put the one for the country Im not currently in on a charger and hide it away in a drawer, and take it out only when Im packing to go to the other continent again. The Canadian phone usually gets 50-100 spam messages and missed calls during the 2-3 months Im not using it. The Czech phone has never had a spam message or missed call on it ever. I dont see why strories like this would have no bearing on this discussion. Its relevant, anecdotal evidence.
Karellen 4y ago
I think it might be because in Europe the sender pays for SMS messages, but in the US, apparently the recipient pays for SMS messages (!) AIUI, this is because in the US they don't set aside different prefixes/area codes for mobile/cell numbers, so when they were first introduced and mobile calls cost more, it was unfair to bill callers extra because they had no way of knowing they would be calling a mobile number. Therefore, they put the extra cost onto the receiver of mobile calls. With this billing expectation in place, they put the cost of SMSs onto the receiver also. It does mean that in the US, businesses sending SMSs to individuals are supposed to go through a "double opt-in" process and have really easy opt-out procedures, on pain of the FCC having some kind of punitive actions available. But I guess they must not be working, or something. Or my info may be out of date?
- lxgr 4y ago
  This was definitely true at some point, but I don‘t know any plan (including prepaid) that charges for incoming SMS anymore these days. That said, unlike in Europe, there are also effectively no truly free (i.e. no monthly fee) prepaid plans in the US. So in a way, you could also say that users are still sharing the cost of inbound texts, although at an implied flat rate (blended into the monthly minimum that exists even for pay-as-you-go plans), rather than per message.
- to11mtm 4y ago
  > It does mean that in the US, businesses sending SMSs to individuals are supposed to go through a "double opt-in" process and have really easy opt-out procedures, on pain of the FCC having some kind of punitive actions available. But I guess they must not be working, or something. Technically, the FCC cares about as much about unsolicited robocalls as they do for unsolicited SMS messages for the TCPA. And the penalties can add up quickly; $500-$1,500 USD -per violation-, not per person you violated the TCPA (IOW, if your automated system sends 10 texts to 10 people that it shouldn't have, it's potentially $50,000-$150,000 and not $5,000-15,000). The upshot for -consumers-, is that there are lots of hungry TCPA lawyers that will happily take your case. Some people even try to file claims themselves, even if it may not be fully legitimate[0]. The issue with robocalls, versus SMS messages: I've found that even if you follow the TCPA 'Script', you'll at best wind up in a weird state in the robocaller's system where they will still call you, but the system immediately disconnects. On top of that, the numbers are often spoofed anyway[1] so it's difficult to get the right number. AFAIK SMS messages, it's harder to spoof the number.[2] [0] - 'Illegitimate claim' can range from "Somebody didn't pay attention to a box they checked on an online form" to "Welp this guy's going to jail for stalking... I guess stupid criminals do exist." [1] - IDK if SHAKEN/STIR will help much, but here's hoping [2] - OTOH There is a real problem with numbers getting 'poached', even if they are already registered with a VOIP carrier that follows all the proper processes around porting. One bad actor makes it easy to mess up the system.
lfodofod 4y ago
You’re just lucky, plenty of spam calls in the EU.
oytis 4y ago
Wait, you have never received a call from "Europol"?
nibbleshifter 4y ago
In Europe and I get a shitload of them.
throwaway393239 4y ago
A summary -- during the Trump administration, the chairman of the body that regulates SMSes and phones decided to (summary) make it easy to spam with few consequences. It takes longer to make an effective solution than to destroy one. The FCC is starting on an effective solution and this is the start, but it will take a while. https://slate.com/technology/2022/04/spam-calls-why-ajit-pai-fcc.html https://slate.com/technology/2022/04/spam-calls-why-ajit-pai...

watwut 4y ago

Afaik, some aspect of it is just not legal. And when someone calls you, you have right to ask to be removed from database and they have to remove you.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dottedmag 4y ago

Looks like it depends on the local regulatory agency. I have never had a spam SMS or call in Norway, while on Malta it's a regular occurrence, thought not as bad as described by US folks.

codetrotter 4y ago
I live in Norway. I’ve received both SMS spam and scam phone calls. However, it is still a rare occurrence. Only a few times per year.

scooke 4y ago

I was a micro-entrepeneur, or auto-entrepeneur, in France, and unsolicited calls and messages started the very next day I registered. Don't ask me the about the email spam.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

reaperducer 4y ago

I’m in Europe and hardly ever receive unsolicited SMS or phone calls. Somehow, at least to me, this seems like a US problem. Every single time the subject of robocalls or spam texts is brought up on HN, someone claiming to be from Europe shows up to ask why it's a U.S.-only problem. Then people from Germany and France and Greece and the U.K., and elsewhere in Europe show up and say how they have to deal with it, too, and it's not just an American thing. In my RSS feed are several European news sources, and they all talk about robocalls occasionally. Who are these apparently very few people in Europe who allegedly have never dealt with telephonic spam, and why do they always feel the need to talk about their personal situation when it has no bearing on the discussion at hand? You state that you "hardly ever receive unsolicited SMS or phone calls." I'm in America, and I too get unsolicited messages "hardly ever": about one unsolicited SMS per month, and spam phone calls about six times a year on my work phone, and maybe once each year on my personal phone. Don't delude yourself into believing that every phone in the nation is flooded with spam all the time.

foobiekr 4y ago
Another aspect is language. A lot of the calls are from india and Pakistan where English fluency is high and non-English European fluency is very low.
- grammers 4y ago
  I agree, that's the most likely reason. You can't to robocalls in German or Italian because cost it too high...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kostarelo 4y ago
Greek here and I can tell you for sure that it's a big issue here, especially robocalls the past few years.
tifik 4y ago
I spend roughly 50% of time in Canada and the other 50% in Europe, mostly Czech Republic. I have two phones, and usually just put the one for the country Im not currently in on a charger and hide it away in a drawer, and take it out only when Im packing to go to the other continent again. The Canadian phone usually gets 50-100 spam messages and missed calls during the 2-3 months Im not using it. The Czech phone has never had a spam message or missed call on it ever. I dont see why strories like this would have no bearing on this discussion. Its relevant, anecdotal evidence.

Karellen 4y ago

I think it might be because in Europe the sender pays for SMS messages, but in the US, apparently the recipient pays for SMS messages (!) AIUI, this is because in the US they don't set aside different prefixes/area codes for mobile/cell numbers, so when they were first introduced and mobile calls cost more, it was unfair to bill callers extra because they had no way of knowing they would be calling a mobile number. Therefore, they put the extra cost onto the receiver of mobile calls. With this billing expectation in place, they put the cost of SMSs onto the receiver also. It does mean that in the US, businesses sending SMSs to individuals are supposed to go through a "double opt-in" process and have really easy opt-out procedures, on pain of the FCC having some kind of punitive actions available. But I guess they must not be working, or something. Or my info may be out of date?

lxgr 4y ago
This was definitely true at some point, but I don‘t know any plan (including prepaid) that charges for incoming SMS anymore these days. That said, unlike in Europe, there are also effectively no truly free (i.e. no monthly fee) prepaid plans in the US. So in a way, you could also say that users are still sharing the cost of inbound texts, although at an implied flat rate (blended into the monthly minimum that exists even for pay-as-you-go plans), rather than per message.
to11mtm 4y ago
> It does mean that in the US, businesses sending SMSs to individuals are supposed to go through a "double opt-in" process and have really easy opt-out procedures, on pain of the FCC having some kind of punitive actions available. But I guess they must not be working, or something. Technically, the FCC cares about as much about unsolicited robocalls as they do for unsolicited SMS messages for the TCPA. And the penalties can add up quickly; $500-$1,500 USD -per violation-, not per person you violated the TCPA (IOW, if your automated system sends 10 texts to 10 people that it shouldn't have, it's potentially $50,000-$150,000 and not $5,000-15,000). The upshot for -consumers-, is that there are lots of hungry TCPA lawyers that will happily take your case. Some people even try to file claims themselves, even if it may not be fully legitimate[0]. The issue with robocalls, versus SMS messages: I've found that even if you follow the TCPA 'Script', you'll at best wind up in a weird state in the robocaller's system where they will still call you, but the system immediately disconnects. On top of that, the numbers are often spoofed anyway[1] so it's difficult to get the right number. AFAIK SMS messages, it's harder to spoof the number.[2] [0] - 'Illegitimate claim' can range from "Somebody didn't pay attention to a box they checked on an online form" to "Welp this guy's going to jail for stalking... I guess stupid criminals do exist." [1] - IDK if SHAKEN/STIR will help much, but here's hoping [2] - OTOH There is a real problem with numbers getting 'poached', even if they are already registered with a VOIP carrier that follows all the proper processes around porting. One bad actor makes it easy to mess up the system.

lfodofod 4y ago

You’re just lucky, plenty of spam calls in the EU.

oytis 4y ago

Wait, you have never received a call from "Europol"?

nibbleshifter 4y ago

In Europe and I get a shitload of them.

throwaway393239 4y ago

A summary -- during the Trump administration, the chairman of the body that regulates SMSes and phones decided to (summary) make it easy to spam with few consequences. It takes longer to make an effective solution than to destroy one. The FCC is starting on an effective solution and this is the start, but it will take a while. https://slate.com/technology/2022/04/spam-calls-why-ajit-pai-fcc.html https://slate.com/technology/2022/04/spam-calls-why-ajit-pai...