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It's a Felony to lie to federal agent. Who doesn't know that? Under 18 U.S.C. § 1001, it's a felony crime to: make a “false statement” to an agent of the > f

It's a Felony to lie to federal agent. Who doesn't know that? Under 18 U.S.C. § 1001, it's a felony crime to: make a “false statement” to an agent of the > federal government related to a federal matter. ... A “false statement” can be: a material omission. a material misrepresentation, or. using a fraudulent document. Proffering a fake id when asked for a real id is clearly using a fraudulent document.

etothepii 4y ago
Is it a fake id in this sense if it had his real name on?
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
  It wasn't issued by the entity claimed so yes.
  - 0134340 4y ago
    It wasn't issued by the Dept of Defiance? I'd say it defiantly was.
    - brookst 4y ago
      So if I go to a bar with an ID from Missisippi, that’s not fake ID because I just made that state up? Please do not try this kind of thing in real life.
techdragon 4y ago
Yes but it wasn “fake”… it was “entirely made up”. There’s a legitimate difference here that I’m sure lawyers would have a field day with. And I’d imagine the agent would have requested additional Id if they actually cared since it’s a simple enough thing to ask again if they took one look at it and weren’t satisfied.
- brookst 4y ago
  “One simple trick” wasn’t a thing back in the timeframe of this story. No gold-fringed flags, no sovcits, no “technically I didn’t lie”.
  - techdragon 4y ago
    I l mean, even without invoking sovereign citizen craziness, it’s pretty easy to imagine a legitimate lawyer arguing the difference between “fake id ” as in an identity document fraudulently attempting to look like a legitimately issued document, and “made up” as in bearing no more than a superficial resemblance to other legitimate identity documents. Now obviously the self confessed train of thought of him deliberately taking the chance to see what the agent would do, definitely comes close to outright mens rea but it’s still arguably not an admission of intent to mislead, and it would all come down to the lawyer… if the agent even cared. Discretion used to be a big part of the “investigation cop” toolkit psychology wise, and fraudulent currency investigation by a secret service agent is much more serious than “this guy shows me his made up id card”
    - brookst 4y ago
      It’s easy to imagine that, but it is not realistic to think it would actually happen. In the event it got to court, any sane lawyer would advocate for a yes it was wrong, but there was no ill intent defense. Trying to split hairs about the difference between a “fake id” and merely a made-up ID would just be digging deeper into the hole. When you’re pulled over for 70 in a 60, you own it, acknowledge the mistake, and hope that recognizance is enougn to get you off. You don’t create elaborate sophistries to “prove” that 70 is actually the same thing as 60, or that the signs that say 60 really mean 70. Nobody buys that kind of thing.
Aeolun 4y ago
I’m wondering if you could argue that you were asked for ‘an ID’, not ‘your US passport or drivers license’.
- somebodythere 4y ago
  You could argue it, but I doubt the argument would withstand an encounter with a judge.

etothepii 4y ago

Is it a fake id in this sense if it had his real name on?

AlecSchueler 4y ago
It wasn't issued by the entity claimed so yes.
- 0134340 4y ago
  It wasn't issued by the Dept of Defiance? I'd say it defiantly was.
  - brookst 4y ago
    So if I go to a bar with an ID from Missisippi, that’s not fake ID because I just made that state up? Please do not try this kind of thing in real life.

techdragon 4y ago

Yes but it wasn “fake”… it was “entirely made up”. There’s a legitimate difference here that I’m sure lawyers would have a field day with. And I’d imagine the agent would have requested additional Id if they actually cared since it’s a simple enough thing to ask again if they took one look at it and weren’t satisfied.

brookst 4y ago
“One simple trick” wasn’t a thing back in the timeframe of this story. No gold-fringed flags, no sovcits, no “technically I didn’t lie”.
- techdragon 4y ago
  I l mean, even without invoking sovereign citizen craziness, it’s pretty easy to imagine a legitimate lawyer arguing the difference between “fake id ” as in an identity document fraudulently attempting to look like a legitimately issued document, and “made up” as in bearing no more than a superficial resemblance to other legitimate identity documents. Now obviously the self confessed train of thought of him deliberately taking the chance to see what the agent would do, definitely comes close to outright mens rea but it’s still arguably not an admission of intent to mislead, and it would all come down to the lawyer… if the agent even cared. Discretion used to be a big part of the “investigation cop” toolkit psychology wise, and fraudulent currency investigation by a secret service agent is much more serious than “this guy shows me his made up id card”
  - brookst 4y ago
    It’s easy to imagine that, but it is not realistic to think it would actually happen. In the event it got to court, any sane lawyer would advocate for a yes it was wrong, but there was no ill intent defense. Trying to split hairs about the difference between a “fake id” and merely a made-up ID would just be digging deeper into the hole. When you’re pulled over for 70 in a 60, you own it, acknowledge the mistake, and hope that recognizance is enougn to get you off. You don’t create elaborate sophistries to “prove” that 70 is actually the same thing as 60, or that the signs that say 60 really mean 70. Nobody buys that kind of thing.

Aeolun 4y ago

I’m wondering if you could argue that you were asked for ‘an ID’, not ‘your US passport or drivers license’.

somebodythere 4y ago
You could argue it, but I doubt the argument would withstand an encounter with a judge.