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That was before we knew that real people suffer after pulling similar stunts. We all know of someone who did something stupid and has faced a lifetime of consi

That was before we knew that real people suffer after pulling similar stunts. We all know of someone who did something stupid and has faced a lifetime of consiquence. Nobody dares put a fake bomb in a school locker (Woz did that) or give false documents to police for fun. Such things are no longer jokes. They screw up entire lives. I used to ride fast motorcycles. I know people who ran from the police for fun. Better camera tech in recent years means nobody gets away with that anymore. And when caught, your life grinds to a hault.

ztrww 4y ago
I’m really unsure whether doing the same thing now would have a high risk of “screwing up” your life. It’s not like he showed anyone a counterfeit ID. What he did is the same as showing a random company ID. Not exactly grounds for arrest especially if he can provide a driver’s license if asked to.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- sandworm101 4y ago
  It was a counterfeit ID. If the cop reading it walks away with the reasonable, but false, belief that the person works for the dod, he has presented a counterfeit ID. If he did it to trick the cop, he has knowingly presented false information/lied to police.
  - sbarre 4y ago
    And people jaywalk all the time. Can we stop being so obtuse and only look at the letter of the law and think about the actual practical real-life consequence as a measure of severity? This was a joke, and no harm was done. Are you really advocating for a felony offence here? This is the same line of thinking, just reversed, that people use to say "well it's not illegal" when someone does something super shitty that actually has awful consequences.
    - fzeroracer 4y ago
      The letter of the law is that he presented a counterfeit ID to a federal officer where lying to a federal officer is a very serious offense. You can argue that 'well it was a joke!!' but if you were to joke around to your nearest FBI officer about how you have a bomb in your home and you're going to use it I imagine they wouldn't find it very funny.
      - sbarre 4y ago
        > if you were to joke around to your nearest FBI officer about how you have a bomb in your home and you're going to use it I imagine they wouldn't find it very funny. Agreed! Joking about a bomb is a much more serious and very different situation than showing a joke ID in a relaxed situation - and when you probably have your real ID in your pocket.
    - sandworm101 4y ago
      Jokes are dangerous. There is a fine line between jokes, wasting an officer's time, and outright obstruction. I wouldnt want to risk my joke landing flat and an angry officer deciding to make me an example.
      - sbarre 4y ago
        Sure, that's a personal choice, but I was talking about everyone in this thread saying Woz should have been charged with a felony for his joke. Which is ridiculous. In your scenario, would you actually be ok or understanding if the "angry officer" made an example of you for this harmless joke? Or would you maybe protest that it was a bit disproportionate or unnecessary? And finally, hearing people say "jokes are dangerous" in a serious manner makes me very sad for our society. The level of unconscious mass conformism seems to be growing fast, and historically that never leads to good outcomes.
- jameshart 4y ago
  What happened to ‘don’t talk to the cops without a lawyer ever?’ Is there an ‘unless you’re Woz and it might be funny’ exception to that rule? The fact is there is, and always has been, a ‘wealthy white guy’ exception to that rule and these kinds of shenanigans just draw attention to it.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pjc50 4y ago
I don't know why this is downvoted, it's correct. Social media means that pranks are no longer ephemeral, and we can also be more aware of how badly wrong it could go.
thinkyfish 4y ago
"Such things are no longer jokes. They screw up entire lives." But should they screw up lives? Why should we put up with authorities that can't take a joke. This is the foundation of the culture of defiance that hacking was all about expressing.
- abledon 4y ago
  > But should they screw up lives? Why should we put up with authorities that can't take a joke. They key concept here is 'trickery', and how 'tricked' someone is on a spectrum. Society trusts our authorities to give their best efforts to keep our daily actions within the realm of 'the law'. There is a spectrum of what one considers a 'joke'. If you tell an authority a dad joke, when they ask you a serious question, that is a fine place on the spectrum to joke with authorities. If you are giving them fake IDs to _trick_ them (and thus, trick society at large, who have delegated power to the authorities by vote etc...), that is not a good thing, to trick others you are living with, at the far end of the 'joke/trickery' spectrum.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  They shouldn't, but they do. Just because a law or policy is wrong doesn't mean it isn't a solid reality that other people cannot afford to joke about. I'm not s fan of US drug policy, but I wouldn't dare carry a bag of false drugs just to make fun of police officers who cannot tell the difference.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  > Why should we put up with authorities that can't take a joke. Probably because the number of instances of people with real bombs has gone up. It’s not a joke any more because the real bomb isn’t the exception.
  - jasonladuke0311 4y ago
    Have they?
cloutchaser 4y ago
You are right (sometimes), but so is the prankster for challenging authority sometimes. A healthy society both has rule following and rule challenging. Sometimes there’s too much rule following, sometimes there’s too much chaos, and then things balance themselves out ideally. If anyone says only one side is the right one, they are ideologically captured. It’s like saying only left or right is the right way to govern a country. It’s both and neither. We need this conflict within society to arrive at healthy decisions. Get rid of one side at your peril.
ipaddr 4y ago
"Better camera tech in recent years means nobody gets away with that anymore." Because police rely on technology committing a crime without your cellphone means you most likely will not get caught. We live in an age where wearing masks is acceptable. Where people let you steal from stores and where crime is ignored unless it's on twitter. You can get away with so much more today.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  > You can get away with so much more today. Depends if you have something to lose. I suspect a lot of readers here are in the middle ground, where their net present value (including career/family/political/etc opportunities) is not high enough where they can afford to shield themselves without big sacrifices. But it is also not low enough to worth risking losing it all. For example, they might be able to afford a house in a nice school district, daycare, saving for retirement, paying for healthcare, and taking care of elderly parents, but a job loss from one spouse could easily derail this train, and certainly legal expenses would.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
  I don't know about how ubiquitous cameras are in NYC, but in China you will absolutely get caught by cameras, and no, a mask will not help you.
  - sandworm101 4y ago
    Better dash camera on police cars, and police body cams, mean they always have your plate number. You cannot run for fun if they already know where you live/work.
  - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
    There are US cities with drones in the air taking pictures of the city. Say somebody robs a bank. Review the picture history from when they arrived at the bank, go backward watching their car until you find out where they live. Drive over and arrest them. This 'time machine' feature of ubiquitous surveillance is going to be a brave new world.

ztrww 4y ago

I’m really unsure whether doing the same thing now would have a high risk of “screwing up” your life. It’s not like he showed anyone a counterfeit ID. What he did is the same as showing a random company ID. Not exactly grounds for arrest especially if he can provide a driver’s license if asked to.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sandworm101 4y ago
It was a counterfeit ID. If the cop reading it walks away with the reasonable, but false, belief that the person works for the dod, he has presented a counterfeit ID. If he did it to trick the cop, he has knowingly presented false information/lied to police.
- sbarre 4y ago
  And people jaywalk all the time. Can we stop being so obtuse and only look at the letter of the law and think about the actual practical real-life consequence as a measure of severity? This was a joke, and no harm was done. Are you really advocating for a felony offence here? This is the same line of thinking, just reversed, that people use to say "well it's not illegal" when someone does something super shitty that actually has awful consequences.
  - fzeroracer 4y ago
    The letter of the law is that he presented a counterfeit ID to a federal officer where lying to a federal officer is a very serious offense. You can argue that 'well it was a joke!!' but if you were to joke around to your nearest FBI officer about how you have a bomb in your home and you're going to use it I imagine they wouldn't find it very funny.
    - sbarre 4y ago
      > if you were to joke around to your nearest FBI officer about how you have a bomb in your home and you're going to use it I imagine they wouldn't find it very funny. Agreed! Joking about a bomb is a much more serious and very different situation than showing a joke ID in a relaxed situation - and when you probably have your real ID in your pocket.
  - sandworm101 4y ago
    Jokes are dangerous. There is a fine line between jokes, wasting an officer's time, and outright obstruction. I wouldnt want to risk my joke landing flat and an angry officer deciding to make me an example.
    - sbarre 4y ago
      Sure, that's a personal choice, but I was talking about everyone in this thread saying Woz should have been charged with a felony for his joke. Which is ridiculous. In your scenario, would you actually be ok or understanding if the "angry officer" made an example of you for this harmless joke? Or would you maybe protest that it was a bit disproportionate or unnecessary? And finally, hearing people say "jokes are dangerous" in a serious manner makes me very sad for our society. The level of unconscious mass conformism seems to be growing fast, and historically that never leads to good outcomes.
jameshart 4y ago
What happened to ‘don’t talk to the cops without a lawyer ever?’ Is there an ‘unless you’re Woz and it might be funny’ exception to that rule? The fact is there is, and always has been, a ‘wealthy white guy’ exception to that rule and these kinds of shenanigans just draw attention to it.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

pjc50 4y ago

I don't know why this is downvoted, it's correct. Social media means that pranks are no longer ephemeral, and we can also be more aware of how badly wrong it could go.

thinkyfish 4y ago

"Such things are no longer jokes. They screw up entire lives." But should they screw up lives? Why should we put up with authorities that can't take a joke. This is the foundation of the culture of defiance that hacking was all about expressing.

abledon 4y ago
> But should they screw up lives? Why should we put up with authorities that can't take a joke. They key concept here is 'trickery', and how 'tricked' someone is on a spectrum. Society trusts our authorities to give their best efforts to keep our daily actions within the realm of 'the law'. There is a spectrum of what one considers a 'joke'. If you tell an authority a dad joke, when they ask you a serious question, that is a fine place on the spectrum to joke with authorities. If you are giving them fake IDs to _trick_ them (and thus, trick society at large, who have delegated power to the authorities by vote etc...), that is not a good thing, to trick others you are living with, at the far end of the 'joke/trickery' spectrum.
sandworm101 4y ago
They shouldn't, but they do. Just because a law or policy is wrong doesn't mean it isn't a solid reality that other people cannot afford to joke about. I'm not s fan of US drug policy, but I wouldn't dare carry a bag of false drugs just to make fun of police officers who cannot tell the difference.
Aeolun 4y ago
> Why should we put up with authorities that can't take a joke. Probably because the number of instances of people with real bombs has gone up. It’s not a joke any more because the real bomb isn’t the exception.
- jasonladuke0311 4y ago
  Have they?

cloutchaser 4y ago

You are right (sometimes), but so is the prankster for challenging authority sometimes. A healthy society both has rule following and rule challenging. Sometimes there’s too much rule following, sometimes there’s too much chaos, and then things balance themselves out ideally. If anyone says only one side is the right one, they are ideologically captured. It’s like saying only left or right is the right way to govern a country. It’s both and neither. We need this conflict within society to arrive at healthy decisions. Get rid of one side at your peril.

ipaddr 4y ago

"Better camera tech in recent years means nobody gets away with that anymore." Because police rely on technology committing a crime without your cellphone means you most likely will not get caught. We live in an age where wearing masks is acceptable. Where people let you steal from stores and where crime is ignored unless it's on twitter. You can get away with so much more today.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
> You can get away with so much more today. Depends if you have something to lose. I suspect a lot of readers here are in the middle ground, where their net present value (including career/family/political/etc opportunities) is not high enough where they can afford to shield themselves without big sacrifices. But it is also not low enough to worth risking losing it all. For example, they might be able to afford a house in a nice school district, daycare, saving for retirement, paying for healthcare, and taking care of elderly parents, but a job loss from one spouse could easily derail this train, and certainly legal expenses would.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
I don't know about how ubiquitous cameras are in NYC, but in China you will absolutely get caught by cameras, and no, a mask will not help you.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  Better dash camera on police cars, and police body cams, mean they always have your plate number. You cannot run for fun if they already know where you live/work.
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  There are US cities with drones in the air taking pictures of the city. Say somebody robs a bank. Review the picture history from when they arrived at the bank, go backward watching their car until you find out where they live. Drive over and arrest them. This 'time machine' feature of ubiquitous surveillance is going to be a brave new world.