4 ms·

Perhaps the reason things are still bad is because engineering alone can not solve climate change and a shift in cultural beliefs and priorities is needed?

by yunwal 4y ago

clouddrover 4y ago
Engineering alone can solve climate change. Sustainable energy and industry is perfectly possible but the transition will take time and will be impacted by practical necessity. This isn't a utopian fantasy. It's a practical direction.
- defrost 4y ago
  Engineering alone isn't sufficient- whatever it is tha you envisage as being engineered as a solution would also have to adopted and deployed, this is the great barrier that presented itelf in the 1970s when climate problems were first recognised on the global stage, resistance to change. We also need widespread political and social attitude changes. Additionally it would be amiss in a thread about sociopathy not to acknowledge that a few virilent plagues that targeted the most affluent consumers could also put a damn good dent in the climate problem.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    > whatever it is tha you envisage as being engineered as a solution would also have to adopted and deployed Yes, and it is. For example, there's more solar power generation in the world than ever before and more is deployed every year. > We also need widespread political and social attitude changes. What social change? There need be none. The ramblings of a few "influencers" on social media is not representative of broader society. You may have trapped yourself in an echo chamber.
    - defrost 4y ago
      > What social change? The actual widespread adoption of engineered changes in the current ways of doing things of course. > You may have trapped yourself in an echo chamber. Please don't be that person.
      - clouddrover 4y ago
        > The actual widespread adoption of engineered changes in the current ways of doing things of course. And that's what's happening. But that's not "social change", that's pragmatism. > Please don't be that person. You lack perspective. That's the problem with being captured by ideological positions, being influenced by influencers, and fantasising about your personal vision of utopian social and political change. You lose sight of practicality. Let's be practical. Tell me: is more solar power is being deployed every year? The answer is "yes", and this practical outcome runs counter to the ideological position you want to take.
        staticman2 4y ago
        "Tell me: is more solar power is being deployed every year?" If you weren't trying to "win" an internet conversation I would think you'd recognise the issue is "sufficient" adoption, not "more" adoption.
        clouddrover 4y ago
        If you were interested in being practical you'd recognise that the transition takes time. Infrastructure always takes time to build out. Solar is building out faster than originally expected and that's a good thing. There's no value in the nihilistic position that change isn't happening when that is plainly contrary to the reality. Ideology makes a person dumb. You want practicality, not ideology. Science and engineering get you to practicality.
        yunwal 4y ago
        > Ideology makes a person dumb Quite an ideological position. One that entirely lacks nuance or evidence. As if serfs could have engineered their way out of fiefdoms.
        clouddrover 4y ago
        > Quite an ideological position. Nope, just practical one. > As if serfs could have engineered their way out of fiefdoms. Hmm, that sounds like there's a practical problem that needs solving. How are you going to solve that one? By sitting around pontificating about your social media messaging? By gluing yourself to your plowshare? By joining a nihilistic, apocalyptic cult? By being all blah, blah, blah? Or are you going to do something about it?

Perhaps the reason things are still bad is because engineering alone can not solve climate change and a shift in cultural beliefs and priorities is needed?

by yunwal 4y ago

Perhaps the reason things are still bad is because engineering alone can not solve climate change and a shift in cultural beliefs and priorities is needed?

clouddrover 4y ago

Engineering alone can solve climate change. Sustainable energy and industry is perfectly possible but the transition will take time and will be impacted by practical necessity. This isn't a utopian fantasy. It's a practical direction.

defrost 4y ago
Engineering alone isn't sufficient- whatever it is tha you envisage as being engineered as a solution would also have to adopted and deployed, this is the great barrier that presented itelf in the 1970s when climate problems were first recognised on the global stage, resistance to change. We also need widespread political and social attitude changes. Additionally it would be amiss in a thread about sociopathy not to acknowledge that a few virilent plagues that targeted the most affluent consumers could also put a damn good dent in the climate problem.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  > whatever it is tha you envisage as being engineered as a solution would also have to adopted and deployed Yes, and it is. For example, there's more solar power generation in the world than ever before and more is deployed every year. > We also need widespread political and social attitude changes. What social change? There need be none. The ramblings of a few "influencers" on social media is not representative of broader society. You may have trapped yourself in an echo chamber.
  - defrost 4y ago
    > What social change? The actual widespread adoption of engineered changes in the current ways of doing things of course. > You may have trapped yourself in an echo chamber. Please don't be that person.
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      > The actual widespread adoption of engineered changes in the current ways of doing things of course. And that's what's happening. But that's not "social change", that's pragmatism. > Please don't be that person. You lack perspective. That's the problem with being captured by ideological positions, being influenced by influencers, and fantasising about your personal vision of utopian social and political change. You lose sight of practicality. Let's be practical. Tell me: is more solar power is being deployed every year? The answer is "yes", and this practical outcome runs counter to the ideological position you want to take.
      - staticman2 4y ago
        "Tell me: is more solar power is being deployed every year?" If you weren't trying to "win" an internet conversation I would think you'd recognise the issue is "sufficient" adoption, not "more" adoption.
        clouddrover 4y ago
        If you were interested in being practical you'd recognise that the transition takes time. Infrastructure always takes time to build out. Solar is building out faster than originally expected and that's a good thing. There's no value in the nihilistic position that change isn't happening when that is plainly contrary to the reality. Ideology makes a person dumb. You want practicality, not ideology. Science and engineering get you to practicality.
        yunwal 4y ago
        > Ideology makes a person dumb Quite an ideological position. One that entirely lacks nuance or evidence. As if serfs could have engineered their way out of fiefdoms.
        clouddrover 4y ago
        > Quite an ideological position. Nope, just practical one. > As if serfs could have engineered their way out of fiefdoms. Hmm, that sounds like there's a practical problem that needs solving. How are you going to solve that one? By sitting around pontificating about your social media messaging? By gluing yourself to your plowshare? By joining a nihilistic, apocalyptic cult? By being all blah, blah, blah? Or are you going to do something about it?