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> And when I see Thunberg being dragged away by the cops as she tries to save the world, I think to myself: that’s the person I aspire to be, not some asshole i

> And when I see Thunberg being dragged away by the cops as she tries to save the world, I think to myself: that’s the person I aspire to be, not some asshole influencer who has nothing to offer the world except pictures of his fancy cars. Why? Greta Thunberg doesn't actually do anything. She's just another "influencer". She is all blah, blah, blah. She is a mascot, a show pony, a cartoon. If you actually want to save the world then you need to do the science and engineering to make it happen. The world needs better battery chemistries, better solar power, better wind power, better tidal power, better gravity batteries, better thermal storage and distribution, better hydrogen generation. The world needs fusion reactors. The world needs PFAS taken out of the water cycle. And so on. Media stunts, protests, people gluing themselves to roads and paintings will not deliver practical results. Only science and engineering will deliver.

b5n 4y ago
Awareness helps create consumer demand. Without a market or significant cost savings (which is incredibly difficult given existing investment and infrastructure) there are no incentives for corporations to do better, the bottom line is all that matters. 'Influencers' will always exist in some form, and I prefer Gretas to the likes of Tates, Trumps, etc. I find it interesting that her name inspired such a passionate response from you.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  It isn't a passionate response, it's a practical response. I want practical outcomes, not platitudes from influencers like Trump or Tate or Thunberg. They contribute nothing, they do nothing. They're not admirable or respectable. It is misguided to aspire to be like them.
  - Hercuros 4y ago
    Why is it all about doing more and not about doing less? I sincerely doubt that a technological solution is possible that would not require any reduction/change in our current lifestyles. Where is the evidence that we only need a sufficient amount of science and engineering to prevent disastrous climate change? Moreover, merely developing the technology is not necessarily enough to get it actually adopted. Lobbyists will fight to protect established interests from industries like oil and gas. There will be narratives about how such new technologies destroy jobs, in an attempt to sway voters. Ultimately, not enough change is going to happen without political will. That is because fighting climate change is not going to make everyone happy. There will be losers, and there is never going to be some magical piece of technology that will let us have our cake and eat it too. Creating political will requires more than just clever engineering, and people like Greta Thunberg can help motivate and inspire large groups of people to create that political will.
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      > Moreover, merely developing the technology is not necessarily enough to get it actually adopted. The city I live in runs on 100% renewable power. It's wind and solar, generated both locally and remotely. One of the solar farms is not far from where I live. Year by year more people are putting solar on their homes. People like generating their own power. Look what's happening around the world. Pick some countries. Kenya's power generation is 80% renewable: https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/Statistical_Profiles/Africa/Kenya_Africa_RE_SP.pdf https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/... https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210303-geothermal-the-immense-volcanic-power-beneath-our-feet https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210303-geothermal-the-i... The UK is putting in renewables everywhere they can. The renewable share of electricity generation is now 44%: https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/cx1m7zg0gpet https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/cx1m7zg0gpet https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/Statistical_Profiles/Europe/United-Kingdom_Europe_RE_SP.pdf?rev=43ec3aaa082d46b09f99a782f0576eb7 https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/... Australia's electricity generation is 22% renewable: https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/Statistical_Profiles/Oceania/Australia_Oceania_RE_SP.pdf?rev=16d88d229b31476489f0173ea5d4884a https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/... The US is 19% renewable electricity generation. Renewables are trending up, fossil fuels are trending down: https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/Statistical_Profiles/North-America/United-States-of-America_North-America_RE_SP.pdf https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/... Read reports on more countries: https://www.irena.org/Data/Energy-Profiles https://www.irena.org/Data/Energy-Profiles Global renewable electricity generation grew by 7.4% from 2019 to 2020. Solar grew by 22% and wind by 12%: https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Publication/2022/Jul/IRENA_Renewable_energy_highlights_July_2022.pdf https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Publication... Nihilism, cynicism, and pessimism are all useless. Optimism is naive. The perspective you want to cultivate is meliorism. Everything else is wank.
1attice 4y ago
> only science and engineering will deliver. Odd that we've been embracing them for a while now, and things seem.... still bad?
- clouddrover 4y ago
  Yes, it's a big problem to solve and there's lots to do. That's why "influencers" who do nothing are so objectionable. They're not doers and they're not contributors.
  - yunwal 4y ago
    Perhaps the reason things are still bad is because engineering alone can not solve climate change and a shift in cultural beliefs and priorities is needed?
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      Engineering alone can solve climate change. Sustainable energy and industry is perfectly possible but the transition will take time and will be impacted by practical necessity. This isn't a utopian fantasy. It's a practical direction.
      - defrost 4y ago
        Engineering alone isn't sufficient- whatever it is tha you envisage as being engineered as a solution would also have to adopted and deployed, this is the great barrier that presented itelf in the 1970s when climate problems were first recognised on the global stage, resistance to change. We also need widespread political and social attitude changes. Additionally it would be amiss in a thread about sociopathy not to acknowledge that a few virilent plagues that targeted the most affluent consumers could also put a damn good dent in the climate problem.
        clouddrover 4y ago
        > whatever it is tha you envisage as being engineered as a solution would also have to adopted and deployed Yes, and it is. For example, there's more solar power generation in the world than ever before and more is deployed every year. > We also need widespread political and social attitude changes. What social change? There need be none. The ramblings of a few "influencers" on social media is not representative of broader society. You may have trapped yourself in an echo chamber.
defrost 4y ago
Fewer people in the world (sustained lower birth rates across the board) and decreased levels of consumption by the top consumers per capita will also contribute a great deal here.
tenpies 4y ago
> If you actually want to save the world then you need to do the science and engineering to make it happen. And that's where I think Thunberg does the most damage. She encourages hysteria and students to skip class for "the environment". We're literally losing a generation of problem-solvers thanks to her direct efforts, not to mention sowing the entire generation with anxiety and fatalism instead of a desire to approach this like a solvable problem. Then there's the fact that she's an influencer. In most Western countries that is now the most desired profession, so who knows how many brilliant people we are wasting in the pursuit of getting people to hit Like and Subscribe (oh and the alarm bell!) because people like Thunberg glamorize the lifestyle? Finally, I think if the author wants to see true sociopathy, a quick visit to their nearest UN SDG, WEF, or the myriad of spawn off environmentalist NGOs would help them clarify what sociopathy is.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

b5n 4y ago

Awareness helps create consumer demand. Without a market or significant cost savings (which is incredibly difficult given existing investment and infrastructure) there are no incentives for corporations to do better, the bottom line is all that matters. 'Influencers' will always exist in some form, and I prefer Gretas to the likes of Tates, Trumps, etc. I find it interesting that her name inspired such a passionate response from you.

clouddrover 4y ago
It isn't a passionate response, it's a practical response. I want practical outcomes, not platitudes from influencers like Trump or Tate or Thunberg. They contribute nothing, they do nothing. They're not admirable or respectable. It is misguided to aspire to be like them.
- Hercuros 4y ago
  Why is it all about doing more and not about doing less? I sincerely doubt that a technological solution is possible that would not require any reduction/change in our current lifestyles. Where is the evidence that we only need a sufficient amount of science and engineering to prevent disastrous climate change? Moreover, merely developing the technology is not necessarily enough to get it actually adopted. Lobbyists will fight to protect established interests from industries like oil and gas. There will be narratives about how such new technologies destroy jobs, in an attempt to sway voters. Ultimately, not enough change is going to happen without political will. That is because fighting climate change is not going to make everyone happy. There will be losers, and there is never going to be some magical piece of technology that will let us have our cake and eat it too. Creating political will requires more than just clever engineering, and people like Greta Thunberg can help motivate and inspire large groups of people to create that political will.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    > Moreover, merely developing the technology is not necessarily enough to get it actually adopted. The city I live in runs on 100% renewable power. It's wind and solar, generated both locally and remotely. One of the solar farms is not far from where I live. Year by year more people are putting solar on their homes. People like generating their own power. Look what's happening around the world. Pick some countries. Kenya's power generation is 80% renewable: https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/Statistical_Profiles/Africa/Kenya_Africa_RE_SP.pdf https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/... https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210303-geothermal-the-immense-volcanic-power-beneath-our-feet https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210303-geothermal-the-i... The UK is putting in renewables everywhere they can. The renewable share of electricity generation is now 44%: https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/cx1m7zg0gpet https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/cx1m7zg0gpet https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/Statistical_Profiles/Europe/United-Kingdom_Europe_RE_SP.pdf?rev=43ec3aaa082d46b09f99a782f0576eb7 https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/... Australia's electricity generation is 22% renewable: https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/Statistical_Profiles/Oceania/Australia_Oceania_RE_SP.pdf?rev=16d88d229b31476489f0173ea5d4884a https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/... The US is 19% renewable electricity generation. Renewables are trending up, fossil fuels are trending down: https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/Statistical_Profiles/North-America/United-States-of-America_North-America_RE_SP.pdf https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Statistics/... Read reports on more countries: https://www.irena.org/Data/Energy-Profiles https://www.irena.org/Data/Energy-Profiles Global renewable electricity generation grew by 7.4% from 2019 to 2020. Solar grew by 22% and wind by 12%: https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Publication/2022/Jul/IRENA_Renewable_energy_highlights_July_2022.pdf https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Publication... Nihilism, cynicism, and pessimism are all useless. Optimism is naive. The perspective you want to cultivate is meliorism. Everything else is wank.

1attice 4y ago

> only science and engineering will deliver. Odd that we've been embracing them for a while now, and things seem.... still bad?

clouddrover 4y ago
Yes, it's a big problem to solve and there's lots to do. That's why "influencers" who do nothing are so objectionable. They're not doers and they're not contributors.
- yunwal 4y ago
  Perhaps the reason things are still bad is because engineering alone can not solve climate change and a shift in cultural beliefs and priorities is needed?
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    Engineering alone can solve climate change. Sustainable energy and industry is perfectly possible but the transition will take time and will be impacted by practical necessity. This isn't a utopian fantasy. It's a practical direction.
    - defrost 4y ago
      Engineering alone isn't sufficient- whatever it is tha you envisage as being engineered as a solution would also have to adopted and deployed, this is the great barrier that presented itelf in the 1970s when climate problems were first recognised on the global stage, resistance to change. We also need widespread political and social attitude changes. Additionally it would be amiss in a thread about sociopathy not to acknowledge that a few virilent plagues that targeted the most affluent consumers could also put a damn good dent in the climate problem.
      - clouddrover 4y ago
        > whatever it is tha you envisage as being engineered as a solution would also have to adopted and deployed Yes, and it is. For example, there's more solar power generation in the world than ever before and more is deployed every year. > We also need widespread political and social attitude changes. What social change? There need be none. The ramblings of a few "influencers" on social media is not representative of broader society. You may have trapped yourself in an echo chamber.

defrost 4y ago

Fewer people in the world (sustained lower birth rates across the board) and decreased levels of consumption by the top consumers per capita will also contribute a great deal here.

tenpies 4y ago

> If you actually want to save the world then you need to do the science and engineering to make it happen. And that's where I think Thunberg does the most damage. She encourages hysteria and students to skip class for "the environment". We're literally losing a generation of problem-solvers thanks to her direct efforts, not to mention sowing the entire generation with anxiety and fatalism instead of a desire to approach this like a solvable problem. Then there's the fact that she's an influencer. In most Western countries that is now the most desired profession, so who knows how many brilliant people we are wasting in the pursuit of getting people to hit Like and Subscribe (oh and the alarm bell!) because people like Thunberg glamorize the lifestyle? Finally, I think if the author wants to see true sociopathy, a quick visit to their nearest UN SDG, WEF, or the myriad of spawn off environmentalist NGOs would help them clarify what sociopathy is.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]