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I pay for Kagi. I'd also pay for Orion if it were on Linux. It doesn't even need to be good, I'd still pay for it.

by COGlory 4y ago

selfawareMammal 4y ago
I'm not good, would you like to pay me? I won't stop you
- rufusroflpunch 4y ago
  I will hop on that gravy train as well.
- COGlory 4y ago
  Are you a web browser?
  - vdfs 4y ago
    Aren't we all just browsing the web?
    - steve_adams_86 4y ago
      I consider myself more of a web browser pilot or captain
      - xwolfi 4y ago
        Do you call yourself a car driver pilot too ? You're a web browser using a software to browse. The software has no agency: YOU are the browser of last order, IT is only an intermediary. Like, who's driving the screw driver: you. You're the screw driver... Humm doesnt work as well as I thought when I started. Fine, you're a screwdriver captain or whatever.
- saagarjha 4y ago
  If you’re going to sell yourself you should at least get a better advertising campaign (or madam).
karmakaze 4y ago
For something as important as a web browser or operating system, I'd want it to be open source. In the FAQ it does say that they're opensourcing components and plan to opensource the browser eventually. This is all good. Long term though, I'd want it also to run on opensource operating systems. It doesn't exactly make sense to have an opensource browser on a closed source operating system. I use Firefox on macOS (+ Linux) and wouldn't be so inclined if it only ran on Mac and/or Windows.
- freediver 4y ago
  Arguably it does not need to be open source if it is zero-telemetry by default (if privacy is concern). Reference: https://browser.kagi.com/faq.html#ossprivacy https://browser.kagi.com/faq.html#ossprivacy
  - Eleison23 4y ago
    First of all, "free and open source" as in libre, does not necessarily mean "free as in beer". You are perfectly free to pay for FOSS and FOSS makers are free to charge for it. Is that clear? Second, "FOSS = safe" from a privacy perspective is not nearly the reason you want FOSS. You want a FOSS browser for many, many reasons that are above and beyond privacy assurances. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
  - commoner 4y ago
    A piece of software will always be more trustworthy when it is free and open source than when it is closed source. A web browser interacts with so many servers that it would be very difficult to screen for all of the possible ways it could leak information to third parties if it were malicious. A FOSS browser has no such concerns since the code can be checked for malicious behavior. Any telemetry in FOSS can be either disabled in the software settings or stripped through forks (LibreWolf, Mull, Ungoogled Chromium). With multiple cross-platform FOSS browsers already on the market, being FOSS is a baseline expectation for any new web browser that I hope Orion will eventually meet.
    - 4y ago
shmoe 4y ago
Man I really want to but $10 a month seems like such alot for search..
simonebrunozzi 4y ago
What’s the main reason for you to pay for it?
- O-stevns 4y ago
  I pay for it to get the benefit of Google's better search results without ads. It's better than DDG, Bing, Google and Brave Search based on my experience... I've had Kagi subscription since October 2022.
Aeolun 4y ago
Kagi seems really expensive? They say 240 searches a month costs them $3. But I don’t see how that works. You can run a c5.18xlarge instance for a full hour for that price, and it seems unlikely every search takes 15 seconds of CPU time on all 72 cpus. Of course they may need multiple instances to search in parallel, but the math per user/search would remain the same. It’s still nice that someone is making paid search though, and that alone would be enough reason to pay :)
- akvadrako 4y ago
  They pay for search APIs. I would say it's very cheap – $10/month for something I use hours a day comes out to a few cents an hour. Even if I was making minimum wage and it only increased my productivity 1% it would be worth it.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    Haha, yeah, for you it’s cheap. I don’t search nearly as much. I’m wondering how the math works for them.
  - neodymiumphish 4y ago
    Neeva costs $5/month and has an AI implementation. They're also using APIs from other scrapers and engines. How can they do it at half the cost to customers (with free accounts as well)?
- TheHappyOddish 4y ago
  They also have employees, API cals to get the data and other costs.

I pay for Kagi. I'd also pay for Orion if it were on Linux. It doesn't even need to be good, I'd still pay for it.

selfawareMammal 4y ago

I'm not good, would you like to pay me? I won't stop you

rufusroflpunch 4y ago
I will hop on that gravy train as well.
COGlory 4y ago
Are you a web browser?
- vdfs 4y ago
  Aren't we all just browsing the web?
  - steve_adams_86 4y ago
    I consider myself more of a web browser pilot or captain
    - xwolfi 4y ago
      Do you call yourself a car driver pilot too ? You're a web browser using a software to browse. The software has no agency: YOU are the browser of last order, IT is only an intermediary. Like, who's driving the screw driver: you. You're the screw driver... Humm doesnt work as well as I thought when I started. Fine, you're a screwdriver captain or whatever.
saagarjha 4y ago
If you’re going to sell yourself you should at least get a better advertising campaign (or madam).

karmakaze 4y ago

For something as important as a web browser or operating system, I'd want it to be open source. In the FAQ it does say that they're opensourcing components and plan to opensource the browser eventually. This is all good. Long term though, I'd want it also to run on opensource operating systems. It doesn't exactly make sense to have an opensource browser on a closed source operating system. I use Firefox on macOS (+ Linux) and wouldn't be so inclined if it only ran on Mac and/or Windows.

freediver 4y ago
Arguably it does not need to be open source if it is zero-telemetry by default (if privacy is concern). Reference: https://browser.kagi.com/faq.html#ossprivacy https://browser.kagi.com/faq.html#ossprivacy
- Eleison23 4y ago
  First of all, "free and open source" as in libre, does not necessarily mean "free as in beer". You are perfectly free to pay for FOSS and FOSS makers are free to charge for it. Is that clear? Second, "FOSS = safe" from a privacy perspective is not nearly the reason you want FOSS. You want a FOSS browser for many, many reasons that are above and beyond privacy assurances. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
- commoner 4y ago
  A piece of software will always be more trustworthy when it is free and open source than when it is closed source. A web browser interacts with so many servers that it would be very difficult to screen for all of the possible ways it could leak information to third parties if it were malicious. A FOSS browser has no such concerns since the code can be checked for malicious behavior. Any telemetry in FOSS can be either disabled in the software settings or stripped through forks (LibreWolf, Mull, Ungoogled Chromium). With multiple cross-platform FOSS browsers already on the market, being FOSS is a baseline expectation for any new web browser that I hope Orion will eventually meet.
  - 4y ago

shmoe 4y ago

Man I really want to but $10 a month seems like such alot for search..

simonebrunozzi 4y ago

What’s the main reason for you to pay for it?

O-stevns 4y ago
I pay for it to get the benefit of Google's better search results without ads. It's better than DDG, Bing, Google and Brave Search based on my experience... I've had Kagi subscription since October 2022.

Aeolun 4y ago

Kagi seems really expensive? They say 240 searches a month costs them $3. But I don’t see how that works. You can run a c5.18xlarge instance for a full hour for that price, and it seems unlikely every search takes 15 seconds of CPU time on all 72 cpus. Of course they may need multiple instances to search in parallel, but the math per user/search would remain the same. It’s still nice that someone is making paid search though, and that alone would be enough reason to pay :)

akvadrako 4y ago
They pay for search APIs. I would say it's very cheap – $10/month for something I use hours a day comes out to a few cents an hour. Even if I was making minimum wage and it only increased my productivity 1% it would be worth it.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  Haha, yeah, for you it’s cheap. I don’t search nearly as much. I’m wondering how the math works for them.
- neodymiumphish 4y ago
  Neeva costs $5/month and has an AI implementation. They're also using APIs from other scrapers and engines. How can they do it at half the cost to customers (with free accounts as well)?
TheHappyOddish 4y ago
They also have employees, API cals to get the data and other costs.