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Nearsighted view that's probably not common among those raised with a long term values perspective. Being a broke bartender is maybe cute in your 20s and maybe

• bradlys 4y ago
  I’d also argue that for young men - unless you’re an absolute unit and breathtakingly handsome… you’re always going to need to make more than your partner for a long term relationship. Being a bartender or taking a lower wage job is a surefire way to only being able to sleep around. I’ve only met a few women who earn more than their spouse and can actually only think of one off the top of my head. Every other couple has the husband making significantly more even if their ages are exactly the same.
  • nixgeek 4y ago
    This in itself is a huge problem and addressing it requires some combination of: (i) regulation backed up with investigations and significant fines for violation; (ii) transparency into pay equity; (iii) corporate action, optimally because it’s the right thing, but pessimistically because you can’t ignore the prior two points.
    • xyzelement 4y ago
      Why is it a huge problem?
      • nixgeek 4y ago
        Why is it normal or acceptable that men earn more than women? It’s been studied for a long time and there’s evidence [1] of some closure across recent censuses, but we’re far from done. [1] https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/03/what-is-the-gender-wage-gap-in-your-state.html https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/03/what-is-the-g...
        • bluefirebrand 4y ago
          > Why is it normal It was the norm for generations because women didn't work at all and men were expected to earn all of the money for themselves and their family. We are not as far removed from those days as people would like to think, expecting the attitude to have completely gone away by now is very optimistic. > Why is it acceptable Why would it not be acceptable? Even in a society with zero bias in favor of men in the workplace, it's still possible that men wind up earning more due to other factors than just bias. If men are earning more than women doing the same job while all other factors are the same, then that's unfair. If men are earning more because they are working more hours, or because they are taking more dangerous or undesirable jobs that women choose not to pursue, or if men are choosing higher paid industries more consistently, then that's not unfair. That's economics.
        • xyzelement 4y ago
          I think you misunderstood the poster you replied to. He's not talking about any pay disparity, he's talking about women's preference for high earning men. Obviously plenty of women earn more than plenty of men. They don't, as a rule, chose to marry those men.
        • tomp 4y ago
          Woke people like you see discrimination even where there is none. Even in situations where people are paid by algorithms (i.e. only based on the work they perform, regardless of their sex), men earn more than women because they simply try to earn more (i.e. they optimise for earnings). "Study of Uber drivers finds men earn more than women — for three key reasons" https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-uber-gender-pay-20180709-story.html https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-uber-gender-pay-20180... The article above doesn't discuss it, but another reason is that men work more; so for the same hourly wage ("equal pay for equal work"), men would still earn more. https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/06/30/new-report-men-work-longer-hours-than-women/?sh=4026772818b4 https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/06/30/new-repo...
    • havelhovel 4y ago
      The parent comment was arguing that women choose to be with men who earn more than them. This was in no way a data point for wage inequality, which you seem to be implying.
  • RobinL 4y ago
    Given that women on average don't earn that much less than men, it can't be that rare for women to earn more than their male partner
    • lucaspm98 4y ago
      It's rare not due to women earning less than men, but due to women's preference to be single rather that be in a relationship with a man who earns less than them. It may be overwhelmingly positive that women are not dependent on men financially, but it doesn't seem dating preferences and cultural norms have kept pace.
  • bluefirebrand 4y ago
    Yup. When I met my girlfriend she was really clear that she didn't want to date someone who didn't have a similar level of accomplishment to her. It wasn't about money entirely, but money was a part of it. She has a master's degree and manages a department of people at a fairly big company. I only have a bachelor, and I don't manage people, but I earn more than her. So I guess it balances out? She would never date a barista. Not because there is something wrong with being a barista, but I think because what she was looking for was a partner, and it's hard tp be partners if there is a large "success" imbalance between you. Men are much more willing to "date down" imo because it's culturally more ingrained into us. Women used to not be able to own much, so the expectation was that men "date down" for a long time! We like to think that's all gone away now but it's still very much ingrained into our culture I think.
    • siftrics 4y ago
      Wow, I am sorry your girlfriend has such superficial values.
      • bluefirebrand 4y ago
        I don't think that "I want a partner who works as hard as I do to succeed" is superficial. I think "I want a partner who is at least 6 feet tall" is superficial.
        • Gud 4y ago
          Why is that superficial? Being tall has clear value
          • deleted 4y ago
            [deleted]
      • HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
        Low blow, dude!
    • foobarian 4y ago
  • Retric 4y ago
    I can think of several. It’s becoming quite common as significantly more women have been getting degrees than men. Guys with flexible jobs and domestic skills can be very appealing to high income earning women. At one end a friend was doing raft tours and became a cook. A higher pay and status example is a PHD taking care of high end lab equipment married to a high end lawyer. I also know of several cases of women inheriting large sums and windows. I think it’s fairly common you just rarely know, my grandfather’s second wife was much better off and I had no idea until someone told me.
  • LeanderK 4y ago
    I would guess that people date mostly "inside" their social bubble (or with a similar social prestige). A broke bartender probably did not go to university etc. and therefore the background is different to the accomplished women with an MBA. There should be studies about it, maybe there's a way to make the conversation more fact based? For example, all relationships formed at work will probably lead to similar backgrounds.
  • havelhovel 4y ago
    That the people in your life have led you to believe that a man’s romantic value comes from his appearance or relative income is only evidence that you need to meet better people. The reality is that women who feel that way are never going to be happy with anyone. You should check out the first chapter of Don’t Trust Your Gut if you want to know what really matters in a successful long term relationship.
• thatfrenchguy 4y ago
  I love how you cannot imagine a world where the women is the high earned, pretty insanely conservative to me.
  • ameminator 4y ago
    Unfortunately, the current trend is for women to marry around the same income/social class, so it seems by personal choice women are marrying these types of people.
    • HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
      The current trend? When has it ever been the trend for people to marry outside their income level or social class?
      • ameminator 4y ago
        It's a very long trend
  • polio 4y ago
    You can imagine it, but it isn't typical.
  • toomuchtodo 4y ago
    https://www.google.com/search?q=why+women+dont+date+down https://www.google.com/search?q=why+women+dont+date+down https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22407388 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22407388 https://hbr.org/2002/04/executive-women-and-the-myth-of-having-it-all https://hbr.org/2002/04/executive-women-and-the-myth-of-havi... (Control-F “Slim pickings in partners”) > Let’s start with the fact that professional women find it challenging even to be married—for most, a necessary precondition for childbearing. Only 60% of high-achieving women in the older age group are married, and this figure falls to 57% in corporate America. By contrast, 76% of older men are married, and this figure rises to 83% among ultra-achievers. > “The hard fact is that most successful men are not interested in acquiring an ambitious peer as a partner.”
  • 4y ago
• LeanderK 4y ago
  I was nearly laughing out reading this comment. It's so materialistic and conservative. I bet if it was the other way around you wouldn't care since the women just needs to find itself the right man who can support her! > Being a broke bartender is maybe cute in your 20s and maybe they are enjoying the "great women" they are dating. it's like you wouldn't believe women care about other aspects besides stable careers. It's not all just meaningless fun and adventure. I know (professional) bartenders personally, working in more sophisticated bars. They are all very social, easy to talk to and confident. I can understand how they are successful on the dating market and able to have meaningful relationships. > The problem is - once you hit 30 and beyond, being a broke bartender ain't that cute, and the kind of women stuck dating them aren't that *great" either. That's so condescending. Is it because you think all great women are already married when they are 30 and home looking after the kids? > And there's no easy leap from a broke bartender in your 20s to someone who can buy a house and support a family in your 30s. We are not in the 50s anymore. The women can have the career and support the family! But why would a successful women date a bartender? Maybe love is not guided by your pay grade and people can date whomever they want. And even if money is tight, a happy family is still possible. My family I grew up in ticked all your boxes and it just didn't work out in the end. I guess you will also make all decisions since you bring the money into the family? > So what I hear in this story, is maybe someone who would otherwise do 130% to go from "director" to "senior director", doing 120% instead so they can play with their kid and extra few hours a week. > It's a very different choice than opting into broke loserdom. That's just mean and so primitive that I am sitting here smiling. Have fun with your 120% corporate job! Though, I hope you will see your kids in between. Maybe you can squeeze in some quality 1on1 time on saturday between your 20% extra work. But I guess that you've got the biggest house in your street and your car is also more expensive, that's all that's important, right? This comment just feels like you consider yourself the superior man and you want to show it.
  • xyzelement 4y ago
    I appreciate that my post tickled you this way :) I think there are two differences between where you and I come from. First, you are talking about which things are possible. I agree all of the things you describe are possible - and happen sometimes. My assertion is that the kind of relationship you describe is exceedingly rare - and even more rarely happy - especially later in life. Second - my post is preconditioned on a values statement about the long term, which includes the desire of raising up a family into the next generation. That's a values thing, you don't have to buy into that, but empirically as people grow up, they either tend to find their way into having a family, or regret failing to do so. So yeah it's not the 50s and people can do whatever they want. But people still often chose to structure their life a certain way and attain what seems like better outcomes (I am talking about family formation) For what it's worth I also came from a broke home and as consequence it took me until almost 40 to find a path to a happy family life, but I am glad I did. I don't assert that I am a superior man, but I do feel great about having a family, and my ability to provide for my wife and kids is a part of that. My wife recently brought up cutting back on her work (she's an emergency room physician) and I am happy that that's an option I can help her materialize if she wants to.