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Ask HN: Is it a bad time to apply to FAANG companies?

72 points by olzhasar 4y ago

I am a back-end software engineer with about 6 years of experience. I used to avoid applying to big tech companies in the past, because I didn't have enough time for a proper coding interview preparation and I preferred companies who hired based on my past projects and verbal assessment. However, I recently quit my last job and for the first time in my life I concentrated fully on my preparation for big tech. Ironically, there are news being constantly published about large layoffs at all major tech companies. Is it still possible to land a job in FAANG at the moment? Should I continue with my preparation?

benrutter 4y ago
If working for big tech is what youbwant to do, there's no such thing as a bad time to go for it. That said, you'll have a harder time finding opportunities in this currently bout of layoffs and hiring freezes than you would have this time last year. My advice is think about what you want to do day in and day out, rather than just focusing on "big tech". There's plenty of coding roles outside of big tech, and a lot of industry jobs haven't been affected by layoffs. If you love working on web apps or data processing (eg) you don't need to restrict yourself to big tech in order to get paid for that.
- ramphastidae 4y ago
  Let’s be honest, the only reason anyone is trying to work for big tech is the outsized comp.
  - olzhasar 4y ago
    Well, it's not in my case. I live in a developing country and I've been working remotely in US for the past 4 years. It was generally a great experience, but it's really difficult to basically live and work in completely different time zones. That's the reason I finally want to relocate and getting into big tech is the most straightforward way to get a visa currently
    - ramphastidae 4y ago
      I would test that assumption. At big tech firms you’re going to be competing with tens of thousands of other applicants who have the same idea as you. There are lots of lesser known midsized companies that sponsor visas where there will be much less competition (and less pay).
    - ocimbote 4y ago
      Yes, people with visas were fired during their probation time because they were easy targets during layoffs. If that's what you want to know.
    - gedy 4y ago
      > getting into big tech is the most straightforward way to get a visa currently I don't know about that, basically the main reason we were able to hire new grads and juniors at previous company with lower comp is people wanting a visa (which we sponsored)
      - trimethylpurine 4y ago
        I don't see the issue. Visas are valuable, and/or expensive, and that should be considered as part of the compensation.
    - qbasic_forever 4y ago
      In an environment of layoffs and slowdowns, tying your visa to your employment seems like a very bad idea. Folks on H1B that were laid off have _60 days_ to get a new tech job or move out of the country. That is an incredibly short time to get through a full interview process even in the good times (google can take like 4-6 months to decide on candidates). Imagine the stress as each day ticks down and you haven't heard back from resumes sent, etc. It sounds like a complete nightmare.
      - drivebycomment 4y ago
        And the alternative is what?
  - roland35 4y ago
    Comments like this just come across bitter and jealous. There are many reasons to work at big tech. One big one for me personally was the opportunity for growth. I've generally felt there was a ceiling at small companies I've worked at before, but there is no limit at big tech. The downside is definitely much higher expectations.
pyb 4y ago
Aren't nearly all FAANGs on a hiring freeze?
- likeabbas 4y ago
  Not sure about others, but Google specifically said they're hiring for key strategic growth areas. I'm having a phone call with a recruiter next week, and can provide an update then.
- olzhasar 4y ago
  That's what I'm trying to figure out. I thought maybe current recruiters from big tech can provide some information about their current hiring activities
- roland35 4y ago
  Hiring is significantly down but not completely frozen. It really depends what team you are talking about! Just by the numbers it is probably harder to get an offer- but if you can get an interview that would certainly be good practice. I thought I was prepared but I totally bombed my first big tech interview! I was able to learn and turn it around and got an offer the second time around.
jasfi 4y ago
If you have the skills they need right now then no, it's not a bad time to apply.
- olzhasar 4y ago
  I believe I do but I am concerned that people who are being laid off also have such skills
moneywoes 4y ago
Well they’ve frozen hiring for most roles so I’d say yes unless you can do ML
bongoman37 4y ago
I have a friend at Meta who is exceedingly unhappy (but sticking with them due to visa issues). He advised me to avoid Meta at least for another year even though they are hiring in ML roles.
AgentOrange1234 4y ago
It’s never too early to reach out and build contacts. If you can get on a team’s short list of candidates now, well, eventually the hiring freezes will lift.
- olzhasar 4y ago
  That's a good piece of advice. My concern is about preparation though, cause it is a time consuming process by itself and if the freeze will be long, maybe I should postpone my preparation and concentrate on my projects instead.
  - AgentOrange1234 4y ago
    That sounds like a good idea to me. The managers who would normally hire right now can’t even bring you in for an interview, so it’s probably not the best time to be trying to “crack” the interview. Careers are decades long. How can you become better known to folks you would like to work with months or even years from now? You might already be on your way. Everyone you know now will move on to many other companies. Some will need help. Will they remember you and ask you to come along? You may be able to use this time to up your odds in various ways. Maybe that’s working on high publicity projects and building your reputation. Maybe it’s chatting up folks in these companies about what they do and what their problems are. Maybe it’s something else unique to you that can make you stand out. Work on things you care about. Meet people. Be friendly and generous. You have all the time in the world.
heisnotanalien 4y ago
Do you just want to work at FAANG to gain a modicum of status in your peer group or are you actually inspired by what they do?
- thfuran 4y ago
  How about doing it for the pay?
- qbasic_forever 4y ago
  If your friends are judging each other's 'status' by their employer (or any other metric really) then IMHO they aren't worth keeping as 'friends'.
  - gedy 4y ago
    Lots of cultures heavily lean on status for peer groups, dating, marriage.
    - almostnormal 4y ago
      Some cultures eat their fellow humans. Just because something is part of culture doesn't imply it is a good thing. But of course it is not easy to escape the system one is born into, let alone change it.
- turkeygizzard 4y ago
  > modicum of status It helps meaningfully with getting interviews at places for those of us who didn't go to top tier schools
- olzhasar 4y ago
  The main reason is relocation to US to be completely honest. However, I am truly inspired by some of them. It would definitely be cool to work at Netflix, cause I genuinely love what they do
- confoundcofound 4y ago
  Is it unwise to pursue a FAANG job for status? I’m currently looking to do this to rehabilitate my CV for downstream opportunity.
lr4444lr 4y ago
Why do you want to go to a FAANG in the first place? Lots of smaller tech companies out there with a proven business model beyond throwing cheap money at diminishing opportunities for growth.
- marcinzm 4y ago
  Money? Resume building?
  - __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
    Perceptions change over time, and I can't tell if this is a widespread view or just my own personal journey. But it seems like the cracks are showing a bit more these days. These companies are maybe not yet cancerous, but they seem past their prime to me. I question whether there's any prestige associated with starting working for one in 2023. If you did something you're proud of at a FAANG, or got exposure to a really interesting problem that changed your perspective, that'll shine in an interview, but I don't think it'll win you any points over having worked there over anywhere else.
    - drums8787 4y ago
      Agree. It seems it would buy you points at another FAANG but if I were interviewing an ex FAANG I would be concerned about mismatching perspectives and experience around scale and appropriate solutions. Then there’s the issue of “if you can get into a FAANG you must be really good”. Maybe. But not sure it would outweigh other concerns.
      - Infinitesimus 4y ago
        > mismatching perspectives and experience around scale and appropriate solutions. This is an interesting one. If you're talking about software engineering, I hope you interview questions check for that. Many people memorize by rote, "build x system, make it FAANG scale" and our industry rewards that. Many small and medium companies have delusions of grandeur that they need solutions Meta and Google do because obviously, they will be the next Google with enough time. Things get overengineered and pragmatic choices are discouraged. Promotions become about building complex systems/services and the goalposts keep changing. I hope your group is able to both hire for and promote the kind of culture you need for your domain.
readingnews 4y ago
For fun, I looked at the Apple jobs site, particularly HW and ML, which is what I kind of do/have my Ph.D. in. OK, so it seems they are hiring. OK, so it does seem, they are also looking for their pick of the litter. They want hardcore people, with hardcore experience.
kodah 4y ago
It's honestly not that hard to work at these firms as long as you let go of any sense of self and adhere to the dog and pony show of algorithm interviews. After that, your chances of employment are mostly a lottery, which you will eventually win if you're good at the show. If money is important to you, do it. The sacrifices you'll generally make: - you'll need to work on POCs (new products) in your off-time. Most of these companies don't schedule innovation. - promotions are based on project delivery and impact within huge orgs, which makes it more hard. - you'll probably run through a number of teams before you find one you like. Colleagues are generally good, management is lackluster, and execs are mostly poor. There are exceptions. I found a place where management and execs are great, but I'm not sold that this paradigm will endure.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  > you'll need to work on POCs (new products) in your off-time. Most of these companies don't schedule innovation. Like, your personal time? For company products?
  - eof 4y ago
    I’ve never worked at a huge org. I assume though that there is a hypocrisy between what you are asked to do (trivial small things) and what is rewarded (big bold changes).
  - nnadams 4y ago
    I can second this one. Not necessarily your personal time but at least once your assigned work is on track or completed. Not rare to hear people say "this past weekend I was playing around..." though. If you have a good idea for a feature, product, or a new system to improve your team, it's unlikely there will be time in the schedule for it. In my experience you spend your extra time playing around, show it off, and wait for a decision maker to take interest. Like the original comment said, I've personally never seen someone be assigned time to innovate from scratch. Once a POC already exists folks jump on the bandwagon though.
  - ajkjk 4y ago
    That's nonsense. They're hard work but they're not, like, that hard. Depends on the team of course. But people get weird ideas like this from forums/external discussion. nobody things that at the actual jobs.
muzani 4y ago
Generally, it's a bad idea to apply to companies doing layoffs. But then again, we has a terrible job market in 2020, and an amazing one in 2021, so who knows how long?
NordSteve 4y ago
More competitive now than before, but certainly not impossible. The FAANG I work at currently has just under a thousand published open positions. Checking the public facing web site, the positions in teams I know about look like real positions that will be filled.
- olzhasar 4y ago
  Thank you for that insight, it helps a lot. I was looking for an answer like this because you never know if the information on careers websites actually matches the real picture
softwaredoug 4y ago
With the title inflation that's happened in the last few years, what I notice is half the job postings are staff+. The other half are senior. Very few junior or 'normal eng' roles.
davewritescode 4y ago
I don’t think it’s a bad time. I suspect a lot of the layoffs have more to do with the value brought by particular employees versus their salary. During COVID salaries spiked and big offers were extended to mediocre candidates. The job hoppers who took advantage of an over heated market but ultimately don’t deliver on big expectations are some of the people I see getting laid off. At least anecdotally that’s what it looks like from my LinkedIn feed. I always warn young engineers that a big pay comes with big expectations. It’s more important to set yourself up for a long career than to eek out a few good years and burn out in an environment that’s unhealthy. I’ve seen it happen, even at smaller companies.
- moonchrome 4y ago
  > It’s more important to set yourself up for a long career than to eek out a few good years and burn out in an environment that’s unhealthy. I’ve seen it happen, even at smaller companies. Depends on the pay gap - I've seen people miss out on 2x because of risk aversion. Realistically if you 2x for a year you can spend the next one doing nothing but looking for the next gig. And the 1/2 gigs will likely be there once you reach a certain skill level and have 2x gig on your resume.
  - deleted 4y ago
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  - davewritescode 4y ago
    That’s not the way it works in my experience. If you have a family health insurance is cost prohibitive if you live in the US. Nobody pays you extra because you worked at Google 10 years ago, the way you get the 2X consulting gigs is making outsized impact and presenting your work. The biggest consultants I know billing $500 an hour have some niche skillset they developed somewhere and are known as experts in their field.
- deleted 4y ago
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- mcphage 4y ago
sjburt 4y ago
The piece I would be worried about is getting hired and either losing the offer or getting laid off after a few weeks/months when the next round of layoffs comes down. If you are currently unemployed, maybe there's not much opportunity cost there.
Arubis 4y ago
Well, you’re unlikely to need to worry about being laid off.
dqpb 4y ago
The only good time to apply to FAANG companies is at the beginning of your career or the end of your career.
up2isomorphism 4y ago
Manager usually was your colleagues before. I did not see how your big tech life is as hard as you described if your colleagues are “generally good”.
elforce002 4y ago
I'd wait at least until Q3 2023. The current climate is interesting since first world economies are on the brink of a direct conflict with Russia + rising inflation + projected recession. Man, Millenials are being tested for sure.
- timeon 4y ago
  > Millenials are being tested for sure. Some even finished the school in 2008 when the crisis started.
fnordpiglet 4y ago
No it’s not. You’ll need to wait about two months. They typically avoid hiring after layoffs for some period of time.
mac3n 4y ago
as long as you understand that their recent layoffs are not an abberation, but part of the business cycle make sure yoiu have an exit plan
2devnull 4y ago
You could. There is a labor market. Markets are influenced by supply and demand. With 10’s of thousands of layoffs, the supply of candidates will be very high. But demand for swe is high on average overtime. If you’ve been interested in this work, then the market shouldn’t scare you off. Artists make art because they have to. Not everything is about pay and other luxury. Try trying.
jodybulldozer 4y ago
I interviewed last June at Google and hit the hiring freeze. I finally got a team match in November, for which an offer letter never materialized. It was for an ML team and -- anecdotally -- all the people I know there who were laid off were working on ML projects. Personally, I've given up. Maybe I'll try again in a couple years but I'd say the whole thing was just a waste of time.
kevinossia 4y ago
My group at Apple is still definitely hiring. My team has been trying to grow headcount for a while now. If you're really good, go ahead and apply.
sangyh 4y ago
For data scientists who might be curious about life as a DS at FAANG or applying, i published a blog post about my DS experience at Amazon -https://medium.com/@Sanga_me/my-data-science-experience-at-amazon-dd633351f49 https://medium.com/@Sanga_me/my-data-science-experience-at-a... i got to learn a few things very quickly, and I enjoyed it. ultimately, the biggest benefit is the brand on my resume. work-wise I am not certain that i learned things there that I wouldn't have learned at any other company. Probably like most other companies, your learnings and interest diminishes over time, so you can join, experience and leave when you feel its the right time.
fallowkevin 4y ago
Peak advertising has come home to roost as folks are shedding reoccuring subscriptions to things like the N in FAANG. Companies that have intrinsic value are worth applying to, as was always the case. A lot has changed in a short time, and some seem to forget that.
A6gYPfxNas 4y ago
Seems like it would be a great time to apply seeing as how they cut a lot of dead weight. If you have been preparing, I would look at the layoffs as a sign that it is your time. Good luck, soldier!
confidantlake 4y ago
Honestly no. No FAANG one is really hiring for a generic back end role. They just did a bunch of layoffs. There are a ton of people in "hiring committee" that are just kind of sitting in limbo. Now is not the time. I have 6 years too and did the big tech interview circuit last year. Many of them cancelled my interviews when they started the hiring freeze (one of them 3 different times!). I even "passed" 2 of them but still did not got hired. One of them just straight up cancelled, another one I am in "team matching" but my recruiter got laid off and haven't had any communication or talked to a team. Last communication with my recruiter she said there were way more people waiting to be matched than there are teams.
carabiner 4y ago
It's an insanely bad time. Meta, Google, Amazon have hiring freezes and have had layoffs, so that leaves Apple and Netflix. There are 200,000 experienced candidates job hunting right now. Ask yourself, why would Apple hire you over one of them?
ravagat 4y ago
No its not. I argue that its actually a great time to apply. Yes there is more competition because of the layoffs but you should know that as businesses layoff a big number of those are for low-value positions/work. If you are competent (you should consider yourself as such) then you will have no "bad time" while applying. Oh and please change your understanding of preparation and applying, applying is a part of the preparation for big tech. If you're out of practice with interviews then apply more than youre comfortable with and interview
carabiner 4y ago
This is like asking in the middle of a world war, is it a bad time to join the army if I'm trying not to die? This is the worst time to be entering the big tech job market in 14 years.

azemetre 4y ago

Do you have a way to find such companies? In my job search a lot of the small companies feel like they won't last if a recession hits. They're interesting ideas but not a sustainable business. One example near me was one that uses ML to diagnose issues with dental patients for dentists. That's a cool solution but dentistry doesn't scale well so the likelihood of this product taking off and going into a decent amount of dental practices seems low. It also feels like the first expense you would cut to save money. Do you only find out they are sustainable during interviews?

lr4444lr 4y ago
On what are you basing the assertion that they wouldn't weather a recession? You might be right, you might be wrong, but large size is not a guarantee of resilience. There are basic metrics about company health that would not be too hard for you to learn, and working at a smaller company would be an education in any of itself in this if you have transparent leadership that talks about the goals and obstacles openly. Dentistry is actually a very dynamic sector of US health care. I have no idea whether ML diagnostics is solving any real problem, whether this company is doing it effectively, or what competitors exist, but I wouldn't write it off for the reasons you're implying.
- azemetre 4y ago
  That's fair, I feel like I don't know enough from the business side to be asking these types of questions during an interview. I feel like the only way to know is to actually work there but sometimes that can be a big gamble. That's what I'm trying to figure out how to avoid and what to ask. I suppose I'm basing my assumptions, for that explicit example, on dentistry isn't an assembly line process, it's very hard to increase the amount of patients you can see in a day. This product isn't helping that, so I personally see very little value being added. I could be completely wrong but I'm scared off enough to not even apply. I suppose I'd like to see job ads talking about how they are a good business rather than just talking about culture and tech. I understand this info can be proprietary, but yeah that's my struggle.
- Arainach 4y ago
  >large size is not a guarantee of resilience ....but tens of billions in cash and being massively profitable sure are.
dsugarman 4y ago
Work at a startup is a great place to look. The further stage they are (higher letter round), the more derisked they generally are. There's different pros and cons based on maturity but if you're looking for the most sustainable going with a later stage private startup that recently raised money (has a lot of momentum) is what I would recommend
- lambic2 4y ago
  Might want to specify https://www.workatastartup.com/ https://www.workatastartup.com/ - if OP hasn't heard of it, your comment might be interpreted as just "working at a startup" in the general sense.
- alonmower 4y ago
  One caution is that later stage private companies that raised big rounds at huge valuations will have a very hard time growing back into those valuations. Options granted have the potential to have high strike prices and limited to negative upside. If you’re getting RSUs it’s less of an issue but you may need to discount a bit from what they tell you they’re worth when you evaluate your offer. They do have lots of cash though, so you can probably negotiate strong salaries.

tsuujin 4y ago
I spent a decade working in Bay Area tech. I guarantee you the culture absolutely demanded that “personal time” simply didn’t exist. You worked at work, you worked some more at home, you came into the office on weekends, and when you weren’t working you were expected to be studying to keep on the bleeding edge of incoming tech. I have been verbally shamed for wanting to spend time with my wife and kids rather than work. This is why I refuse to work in any Bay Area tech today.
- Der_Einzige 4y ago
  How do we square this circle with the amount of grifting and doing nothing that seemed to dominate some companies? Google and Microsoft were known as tech retirement homes to rest and vest at. We have the stupid TikTok videos to prove it too. How is it that some get so overworked and others do none?
- thesandlord 4y ago
  I've also spent a decade in Bay Area tech, and have never been asked or seen any of my coworkers feel this pressure, both at big tech (Google/Stripe) and at tiny startups. Of course there are crunch times, but the majority of the time WLB was great. In fact, there are definitely a group of folks who seem to be permanently coasting. There are bad companies and bad teams, but saying all of tech in the bay area operates this way is just wrong.
  - kodah 4y ago
    I would say it's a aspect of Bay Area tech that is uniquely common in Bay Area tech, but exists abroad at lesser frequencies. Downplaying it given the amount of people who come out to talk about this very thing, as you are doing, also is just wrong.
    - tsuujin 4y ago
      People feel the need to defend Bay Area tech for whatever reason. I’ve been trying to tell people for years that my experiences at multiple companies, and talking to many, many other devs I met in the area and at conferences, indicate a serious problem in tech that we need take address. There are always people who will come out and say “well I didn’t have that experience so it doesn’t exist”.
      - ajkjk 4y ago
        It's not really defending Bay Area tech. It's kinda the opposite. I have lot of problems with Bay Area tech, but I'll jump to shoot down hyperbolic criticisms that don't reflect most people's experiences because they' make it harder to _actually_ criticize them, in a 'crying wolf' sense. The top-level post in this thread is just _wrong_ as a general statement (well, at least the bit "you'll need to work on POCs (new products) in your off-time. Most of these companies don't schedule innovation' for instance"), although there may be specific instances where those are true, and pretending like it isn't means that people's criticisms of these companies are criticizing them for fictional grievances instead of real ones, which makes those criticisms far weaker and easier to fend off.
- david38 4y ago
  This isn’t standard, even here in the Bay Area. Sounds like you just spent too long in the company.
  - tsuujin 4y ago
    I worked for multiple companies in the Bay Area, and this was standard fare at all of them. Hire young people with no personal obligations and gaslight them into believing if they don’t live and breathe work they’re “not a team player”.
- RestlessMind 4y ago
  > I guarantee you the culture absolutely demanded that “personal time” simply didn’t exist. I have spent two decades in SV and this is simply not true. My partner has spent a similar time and barring one bad experience for 2 years, the rest of it aligns with mine. Maybe, you got stuck in some shithole?