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Hold the phone, how do N95 masks even expire if stored properly? What causes their fibers to decay? >destroyed those N95s without replenishing them once they e

Hold the phone, how do N95 masks even expire if stored properly? What causes their fibers to decay? >destroyed those N95s without replenishing them once they expired Whenever I'll do something stupid, I'll remind myself of this action of the Canadian government to comfort myself. Did they at least learn the lesson after COVID to keep their stocks up for the next once in a lifetime pandemic?

dopidopHN 4y ago
I think the French did the same or close. Fist scandal was having piles and piles of vaccines and masks for the H5N1 flue. Second waves was discovering that said piles ( of masks ) were gone. Part of the French social contract is based on having a strong state, that is somewhat competent at providing basic shit. ( in exchange for all the ailes of a strong state ) That was not a glorious moment
- Semaphor 4y ago
  It was the same all over Europe (possibly elsewhere as well) IIRC. At least also in Germany.
  - dopidopHN 4y ago
    It made me feel better if you guys screw it up too. ( it’s a joke, I actually wish for our respectives government to get their shit together )
    - Kiro 4y ago
      In hindsight things are obvious but most countries did the same mistake and so would you if you were in charge.
      - berdario 4y ago
        This is a defeatist attitude that will not help improve our society. Sure, there are some reasons for the mistakes (my assumption is that since Europe survive almost unscathed SARS, the importance of having usable stockpiles wasn't as clear as it is now), but this doesn't mean that it was physically impossible to avoid these mistakes.
        dopidopHN 4y ago
        I’m also praising a predecessor of that same health ministry. And, is it defeatism or a factual observation of our leaders action? Demanding more clarity and accountability is good enough for the stakeholders of private society. Why not our democratic leader? Specially the accountability bit. More than poor handling or stocks, I have difficulty to digest the lies. Example : In France, once it became evident that the stocks were gone, the official language element became « mask are useless » ( for real ) Then a few weeks later « mask are too complex for the general public to handle, we need to keep them for health professionals » And finally, « please wear a masks » The best practices and science did not change in those mere 3 months. They were just telling us bullshit. I don’t like that. A sane and open post mortem of the situation would be helpful. And that’s not défaitismes, it’s a hope that we can do better if we have a hard look at ourselves and our leaders actions.
      - junofan 4y ago
        If I were in charge of the Center for Disease Control, I would use some of its $8 bn budget to prepare adequate countermeasures for a respiratory pandemic.
      - dopidopHN 4y ago
        I would not be in charge because I’m a moron. The event I was referring to was that our health minister at the time of the H1N1 pandemic got ridiculed because she ordered masks and vaccines en masse early on in the outbreak. In insight, she did really well. So, not every body is fucking it up every time. At least that woman did not.
HPsquared 4y ago
The fibers in an N95 are electrostatically charged, which is how they are able to capture small particles. I don't know for sure, but it's possible this charge may decay over time perhaps? (Or, more likely, the manufacturer may have only tested/verified up to a certain time after manufacture, and that's what they are certified for)
- jaclaz 4y ago
  Seemingly they can be recharged, one hour between two plates at 1000 V appears to be the soft spot: https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0023940 https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0023940 just imagine the cost of either re-processing the existing masks or having 1000 V "re-chargers" at home ...
  - throwanem 4y ago
    A bit like the old quartz-fiber radiation dosimeters, I suppose - those actually were a consumer product [1], along with the high-voltage DC charger required to "zero" them for reuse, back some 60 or so years ago and a fair bit before safety was invented. [1] https://www.orau.org/health-physics-museum/collection/civil-defense/citizens/bendix-family-radiation-kit.html https://www.orau.org/health-physics-museum/collection/civil-...
    - dylan604 4y ago
      >a fair bit before safety was invented. i still remember the oscillating fan at my grandparents' house from the 50s. It was a 12" fan made out of solid metal. Not one piece of plastic to be found any where on this thing. The blades looked like something from the back of a Naval ship. The interesting thing to me was the grate covering the fan. To this day, I'm really not sure of the purpose. I could easily stick my hand through the grate today as an adult. Yes, this fan still works today as well as it did when I was a kid and the fan was already 30 years old. Something like this: https://i.etsystatic.com/15784874/r/il/432676/2183412824/il_794xN.2183412824_ebtf.jpg https://i.etsystatic.com/15784874/r/il/432676/2183412824/il_... Clearly, safety was not invented at that time.
infinet 4y ago
Perhaps it doesn't matter whether N95 still function well. Once pass the expire date printed on the package, warehouse has to remove them from inventory.
FpUser 4y ago
>"Did they at least learn the lesson" The only thing politicians learn is how to win elections. The rest is just a change for trade.
908B64B197 4y ago
If only they just threw away masks... The Trudeau administration funneled 44 million dollars [0] and months [1] of taxpayer funded research work to CCP controlled CanSino in order to get cheaper doses than the American backed vaccine candidates [3]. It, unsurprisingly, failed spectacularly. [0] https://globalnews.ca/news/7302194/canada-coronavirus-vaccine-deal-china/ https://globalnews.ca/news/7302194/canada-coronavirus-vaccin... [1] https://ipolitics.ca/2021/03/12/a-waste-of-a-lot-of-time-researcher-in-cansino-deal-shares-new-details/ https://ipolitics.ca/2021/03/12/a-waste-of-a-lot-of-time-res... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed#Companies_receiving_research_funding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed#Companies...
mensetmanusman 4y ago
Some manufactured versions can last over a decade if stored properly in low humidity to prevent water from discharging the fiber charge. If we had a smart government, we would start stockpiling now for the next pandemic and have a FIFO replacement system. The cost of such a ‘respirator battery’ would be about 1-2 Abrahams tanks
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Don't even need to be aggressive about FIFO. Buy with 5y shelf life, sell off and rotate when there's 1y left. The average construction site/whatever will happily buy N95s that will expire in 6 months for a 20% discount because when they go through a pile every week. Heck, I buy nearly expired allergy pills for a discount because I know that the API is super stable in solid form at standard conditions.

dopidopHN 4y ago

I think the French did the same or close. Fist scandal was having piles and piles of vaccines and masks for the H5N1 flue. Second waves was discovering that said piles ( of masks ) were gone. Part of the French social contract is based on having a strong state, that is somewhat competent at providing basic shit. ( in exchange for all the ailes of a strong state ) That was not a glorious moment

Semaphor 4y ago
It was the same all over Europe (possibly elsewhere as well) IIRC. At least also in Germany.
- dopidopHN 4y ago
  It made me feel better if you guys screw it up too. ( it’s a joke, I actually wish for our respectives government to get their shit together )
  - Kiro 4y ago
    In hindsight things are obvious but most countries did the same mistake and so would you if you were in charge.
    - berdario 4y ago
      This is a defeatist attitude that will not help improve our society. Sure, there are some reasons for the mistakes (my assumption is that since Europe survive almost unscathed SARS, the importance of having usable stockpiles wasn't as clear as it is now), but this doesn't mean that it was physically impossible to avoid these mistakes.
      - dopidopHN 4y ago
        I’m also praising a predecessor of that same health ministry. And, is it defeatism or a factual observation of our leaders action? Demanding more clarity and accountability is good enough for the stakeholders of private society. Why not our democratic leader? Specially the accountability bit. More than poor handling or stocks, I have difficulty to digest the lies. Example : In France, once it became evident that the stocks were gone, the official language element became « mask are useless » ( for real ) Then a few weeks later « mask are too complex for the general public to handle, we need to keep them for health professionals » And finally, « please wear a masks » The best practices and science did not change in those mere 3 months. They were just telling us bullshit. I don’t like that. A sane and open post mortem of the situation would be helpful. And that’s not défaitismes, it’s a hope that we can do better if we have a hard look at ourselves and our leaders actions.
    - junofan 4y ago
      If I were in charge of the Center for Disease Control, I would use some of its $8 bn budget to prepare adequate countermeasures for a respiratory pandemic.
    - dopidopHN 4y ago
      I would not be in charge because I’m a moron. The event I was referring to was that our health minister at the time of the H1N1 pandemic got ridiculed because she ordered masks and vaccines en masse early on in the outbreak. In insight, she did really well. So, not every body is fucking it up every time. At least that woman did not.

HPsquared 4y ago

The fibers in an N95 are electrostatically charged, which is how they are able to capture small particles. I don't know for sure, but it's possible this charge may decay over time perhaps? (Or, more likely, the manufacturer may have only tested/verified up to a certain time after manufacture, and that's what they are certified for)

jaclaz 4y ago
Seemingly they can be recharged, one hour between two plates at 1000 V appears to be the soft spot: https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0023940 https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0023940 just imagine the cost of either re-processing the existing masks or having 1000 V "re-chargers" at home ...
- throwanem 4y ago
  A bit like the old quartz-fiber radiation dosimeters, I suppose - those actually were a consumer product [1], along with the high-voltage DC charger required to "zero" them for reuse, back some 60 or so years ago and a fair bit before safety was invented. [1] https://www.orau.org/health-physics-museum/collection/civil-defense/citizens/bendix-family-radiation-kit.html https://www.orau.org/health-physics-museum/collection/civil-...
  - dylan604 4y ago
    >a fair bit before safety was invented. i still remember the oscillating fan at my grandparents' house from the 50s. It was a 12" fan made out of solid metal. Not one piece of plastic to be found any where on this thing. The blades looked like something from the back of a Naval ship. The interesting thing to me was the grate covering the fan. To this day, I'm really not sure of the purpose. I could easily stick my hand through the grate today as an adult. Yes, this fan still works today as well as it did when I was a kid and the fan was already 30 years old. Something like this: https://i.etsystatic.com/15784874/r/il/432676/2183412824/il_794xN.2183412824_ebtf.jpg https://i.etsystatic.com/15784874/r/il/432676/2183412824/il_... Clearly, safety was not invented at that time.

infinet 4y ago

Perhaps it doesn't matter whether N95 still function well. Once pass the expire date printed on the package, warehouse has to remove them from inventory.

FpUser 4y ago

>"Did they at least learn the lesson" The only thing politicians learn is how to win elections. The rest is just a change for trade.

908B64B197 4y ago

If only they just threw away masks... The Trudeau administration funneled 44 million dollars [0] and months [1] of taxpayer funded research work to CCP controlled CanSino in order to get cheaper doses than the American backed vaccine candidates [3]. It, unsurprisingly, failed spectacularly. [0] https://globalnews.ca/news/7302194/canada-coronavirus-vaccine-deal-china/ https://globalnews.ca/news/7302194/canada-coronavirus-vaccin... [1] https://ipolitics.ca/2021/03/12/a-waste-of-a-lot-of-time-researcher-in-cansino-deal-shares-new-details/ https://ipolitics.ca/2021/03/12/a-waste-of-a-lot-of-time-res... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed#Companies_receiving_research_funding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed#Companies...

mensetmanusman 4y ago

Some manufactured versions can last over a decade if stored properly in low humidity to prevent water from discharging the fiber charge. If we had a smart government, we would start stockpiling now for the next pandemic and have a FIFO replacement system. The cost of such a ‘respirator battery’ would be about 1-2 Abrahams tanks

Scoundreller 4y ago
Don't even need to be aggressive about FIFO. Buy with 5y shelf life, sell off and rotate when there's 1y left. The average construction site/whatever will happily buy N95s that will expire in 6 months for a 20% discount because when they go through a pile every week. Heck, I buy nearly expired allergy pills for a discount because I know that the API is super stable in solid form at standard conditions.