4 ms·

They don’t agree with the law, so they are deliberately interpreting it in the most extreme and nonsensical way possible, in order to make a political statement

They don’t agree with the law, so they are deliberately interpreting it in the most extreme and nonsensical way possible, in order to make a political statement against it. The fact is all laws are up to interpretation, and discretion is an essential part of their enforcement. I really doubt anybody would prosecute a teacher for an obviously non-controversial text which hadn’t technically been approved yet. I think the teachers have a pretty good idea of what texts are completely safe, and which texts are potentially problematic-but they are feigning ignorance to make a political statement.

mathgorges 4y ago
I don't see that expressed in the article. From the article: > If you have a lot of books like I do, probably several hundred, it is not practical to run all of them through (the vetting process) so we have to cover them up I imagine teachers in Florida are expected to uphold their normal duties while complying with this new law, and teachers are famously overworked. Manually checking hundreds of book against an allow-list seems rather time intensive. Since failure to comply with the law could result in a felony charge this course of action from the teachers seems perfectly rational to me. ETA: Even if a court would throw out the charge (remains to be seen), would you really want to go though all the legal trouble?
alistairSH 4y ago
Florida made it a felony to share books that weren’t approved. As a teacher, it makes sense to remove books instead of risk prosecution. This isn’t the school libraries, this is books individual teachers keep in the classroom.
- skissane 4y ago
  How many teachers have been prosecuted for said felony? How many unrelated felonies have they committed, which they don’t care about? If everything which is technically a felony were (successfully) prosecuted, probably every adult American would be a convicted felon - http://alex.kozinski.com/articles/Youre_Probably_a_Federal_Criminal.pdf http://alex.kozinski.com/articles/Youre_Probably_a_Federal_C... - but I doubt they’d apply the same attitude to all those other laws
  - standardUser 4y ago
    Consider the context in Florida. Are you aware of the political situation there? I think if you had the perspective of a Florida teacher, you would rightfully be cautious if not afraid.
    - skissane 4y ago
      You really think Governor DeSantis going to start throwing random teachers in prison, because they had non-controversial but not technically approved books in their classrooms? Like him or loathe him, he’s a pretty smart politician, why would he engage in such an act of political self-sabotage? From what I understand, this is a state law, and there are 67 counties in Florida, and this is a report from a single county - is every teacher in the state doing this? Or is it just a thing in certain school districts? I suspect the later. I wonder what kind of characteristics would predict which school districts will have large large numbers of teachers reacting to the law in this way and which won’t?
      - standardUser 4y ago
        The fact is that teachers have become a target from the right wing and DeSantis has been leading the charge with his words and actions. After the elaborate migrant flight fiasco, I don't think anyone wants to make big assumptions about what DeSantis won't do to satisfy his increasing bloodthirty base.
        skissane 4y ago
        > The fact is that teachers have become a target from the right wing and DeSantis has been leading the charge with his words and actions. I wonder how many teachers in Florida vote for DeSantis, and still plan to vote for him even after all of this? While no doubt it is true that school teachers in the US (and public school teachers especially) tend to skew Democratic, I’m sure the number of DeSantis-voting public school teachers in Florida would be significantly greater than zero. I wonder if those teachers would agree that “teachers have become a target from the right wing”?
standardUser 4y ago
You are talking about a state run by a man who has on multiple occasions shipped around human beings as a political stunt. Do you expect reasonableness and restraint from his administration? Or do you expect headline-grabbing stunts every few weeks?
- dashundchen 4y ago
  Let's not just say he shipped them, he literally human trafficked asylum seekers to an island, by luring them under false pretenses of jobs and assistance, in a place that wasn't even in his state, using taxpayer dollars. Astounding levels of performative cruelty.
  - moistly 4y ago
    You know HN is turning into a shithole when a factual post is downvoted.
    - concinds 4y ago
      You know it is, when Alex Jones-tier posts saying that a political opponent is "literally" a human trafficker are upvoted. But I suppose that's just a reflection of how pathological American discourse as a whole has gotten.
      - defrost 4y ago
        Human trafficking is the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of people through force, fraud, coercion or deception, with the aim of exploiting them for profit. It checks out factually. I'm a non USAian with no particular interest in either of the two US parties (other than a historic awareness that the original founders had a disdain for Political Parties and would have hated the current disfunctional bicameral mess). However both the US Gov. of Texas and the US Gov. of Florida delibrately deceived humans (fraud) and transported them for political profit. That makes them both literal textbook human trafficers. Don't like it? Take it up with the OED.
anigbrowl 4y ago
Per the article, the directive came from the school district rather than being an individual initiative.
- ddgflorida 4y ago
  A pure political stunt by the school district.
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    One might make the same observation about a law that makes sharing the wrong books a felony.
bentlegen 4y ago
It’s apparently a felony if you don’t comply. How many jobs carry a risk of committing a felony for faithfully trying to perform your job? Will you trust a judge or jury to acquit you if an inappropriate book found its way onto the shelves outside your control?

mathgorges 4y ago

I don't see that expressed in the article. From the article: > If you have a lot of books like I do, probably several hundred, it is not practical to run all of them through (the vetting process) so we have to cover them up I imagine teachers in Florida are expected to uphold their normal duties while complying with this new law, and teachers are famously overworked. Manually checking hundreds of book against an allow-list seems rather time intensive. Since failure to comply with the law could result in a felony charge this course of action from the teachers seems perfectly rational to me. ETA: Even if a court would throw out the charge (remains to be seen), would you really want to go though all the legal trouble?

alistairSH 4y ago

Florida made it a felony to share books that weren’t approved. As a teacher, it makes sense to remove books instead of risk prosecution. This isn’t the school libraries, this is books individual teachers keep in the classroom.

skissane 4y ago
How many teachers have been prosecuted for said felony? How many unrelated felonies have they committed, which they don’t care about? If everything which is technically a felony were (successfully) prosecuted, probably every adult American would be a convicted felon - http://alex.kozinski.com/articles/Youre_Probably_a_Federal_Criminal.pdf http://alex.kozinski.com/articles/Youre_Probably_a_Federal_C... - but I doubt they’d apply the same attitude to all those other laws
- standardUser 4y ago
  Consider the context in Florida. Are you aware of the political situation there? I think if you had the perspective of a Florida teacher, you would rightfully be cautious if not afraid.
  - skissane 4y ago
    You really think Governor DeSantis going to start throwing random teachers in prison, because they had non-controversial but not technically approved books in their classrooms? Like him or loathe him, he’s a pretty smart politician, why would he engage in such an act of political self-sabotage? From what I understand, this is a state law, and there are 67 counties in Florida, and this is a report from a single county - is every teacher in the state doing this? Or is it just a thing in certain school districts? I suspect the later. I wonder what kind of characteristics would predict which school districts will have large large numbers of teachers reacting to the law in this way and which won’t?
    - standardUser 4y ago
      The fact is that teachers have become a target from the right wing and DeSantis has been leading the charge with his words and actions. After the elaborate migrant flight fiasco, I don't think anyone wants to make big assumptions about what DeSantis won't do to satisfy his increasing bloodthirty base.
      - skissane 4y ago
        > The fact is that teachers have become a target from the right wing and DeSantis has been leading the charge with his words and actions. I wonder how many teachers in Florida vote for DeSantis, and still plan to vote for him even after all of this? While no doubt it is true that school teachers in the US (and public school teachers especially) tend to skew Democratic, I’m sure the number of DeSantis-voting public school teachers in Florida would be significantly greater than zero. I wonder if those teachers would agree that “teachers have become a target from the right wing”?

standardUser 4y ago

You are talking about a state run by a man who has on multiple occasions shipped around human beings as a political stunt. Do you expect reasonableness and restraint from his administration? Or do you expect headline-grabbing stunts every few weeks?

dashundchen 4y ago
Let's not just say he shipped them, he literally human trafficked asylum seekers to an island, by luring them under false pretenses of jobs and assistance, in a place that wasn't even in his state, using taxpayer dollars. Astounding levels of performative cruelty.
- moistly 4y ago
  You know HN is turning into a shithole when a factual post is downvoted.
  - concinds 4y ago
    You know it is, when Alex Jones-tier posts saying that a political opponent is "literally" a human trafficker are upvoted. But I suppose that's just a reflection of how pathological American discourse as a whole has gotten.
    - defrost 4y ago
      Human trafficking is the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of people through force, fraud, coercion or deception, with the aim of exploiting them for profit. It checks out factually. I'm a non USAian with no particular interest in either of the two US parties (other than a historic awareness that the original founders had a disdain for Political Parties and would have hated the current disfunctional bicameral mess). However both the US Gov. of Texas and the US Gov. of Florida delibrately deceived humans (fraud) and transported them for political profit. That makes them both literal textbook human trafficers. Don't like it? Take it up with the OED.

anigbrowl 4y ago

Per the article, the directive came from the school district rather than being an individual initiative.

ddgflorida 4y ago
A pure political stunt by the school district.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  One might make the same observation about a law that makes sharing the wrong books a felony.

bentlegen 4y ago

It’s apparently a felony if you don’t comply. How many jobs carry a risk of committing a felony for faithfully trying to perform your job? Will you trust a judge or jury to acquit you if an inappropriate book found its way onto the shelves outside your control?