4 ms·

The Coming Dust Bowl

31 points by Ambolia 4y ago

Waterluvian 4y ago
If we looked at the data of water usage by purpose, would we discover that this is a very solvable problem, so long as sufficient power is found to overcome corporate and governmental selfishness?
- timst4 4y ago
  Certainly you are right. If all the golf courses are closed and agriculture is transitioned to more stable locales, the Southwest would have a fighting chance. However, when you take into account human nature, especially American human nature, the forecast seems darker. More and more, I believe that Collapse seems to be hard-wired into the human collective. It almost seems as if there is a number of humans (n) that serves as an under/over for inevitable collapse. One person can have foresight. Two people, 10 people, 1000 people even. But once you hit 10,000 or so the ability to sway public opinion with money and media becomes too strong. All it takes is a certain percentage of people to be convinced the problem is a conspiracy or a mirage. That is enough to sow doubt more widely, and to sink any efforts towards a reasonable conservation of resources. The Southwest will collapse, and soon. And the number of people denying the existence of a problem will be non-trivial even as the last reservoir dries up. It’s a shame, but it was as Cadillac Desert proves imminently avoidable.
  - Kim_Bruning 4y ago
    I'm not so sure. It's an organization problem. Over time people are capable of organizing themselves to overcome pretty much any problem, including large scale environmental events. See eg. Water Boards[1] in the Netherlands for dealing with the inverse problem (regular flooding). Possibly this takes multiple similar disasters in a row before people decide enough is enough. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board_(Netherlands) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board_(Netherlands)
  - beder 4y ago
    This reminds me of the fantastic book, A Canticle for Leibowitz, by Walter Miller. He has a similarly pessimistic take.
  - musicale 4y ago
    I believe Los Angeles (like many coastal cities) still sends most of its stormwater to the ocean. Capturing more of it could reduce external water requirements.[1] Some of this is being done already, with some 33 billion gallons captured during this current storm season, apparently enough to supply 816K people (of ~4M) for a year.[2] [1] https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-01-06/why-cant-we-capture-all-this-storm-water https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-01-06/why-cant... [2] https://ktla.com/news/local-news/los-angeles-county-collects-33-billion-gallons-of-rainwater-in-recent-storms/ https://ktla.com/news/local-news/los-angeles-county-collects...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- yellowapple 4y ago
  If California would put its nice long coastline to use with some proper desal capacity, it would permanently end its own drought and no longer be reliant on the Colorado River. That would in and of itself solve most of the water-related issues in Arizona and Nevada.
selimthegrim 4y ago
Hohokam, not Hokoham.
powerbroker 4y ago
If you drive off the interstates between Kansas and Colorado, there must be 1,000 communities that are either ghost towns, or well below 50% of their peak populations. I'm sure others can speak to the de-population that has happened in their stomping grounds. Now that I do a quick search about the web, this phenomenon is only the tip of the iceberg. Yet, for people here, more urban; more erudite; this feature has gone unnoticed. Will Phoenix, AZ go this same way? https://dailyyonder.com/regional-population-loss-metastasizes-in-the-last-decade/2021/04/27/ https://dailyyonder.com/regional-population-loss-metastasize...
- IshKebab 4y ago
  Or maybe young people have more opportunities to move away from undesirable locations?
fithisux 4y ago
Conspiracy theories.
- UncleEntity 4y ago
  Yep… my grandparents, who left Oklahoma because of the Dust Bowl, used to go on and on about how it was a conspiracy theory. /s And Arizona had a proposition on the ballot 20 years ago proposing that all new development needs to show where its water would come from because there wasn’t enough to sustain the amount of development. I’ve seen the writing on the wall and have decided to leave Arizona for greener pastures.

31 points by Ambolia 4y ago

If we looked at the data of water usage by purpose, would we discover that this is a very solvable problem, so long as sufficient power is found to overcome corporate and governmental selfishness?

timst4 4y ago
Certainly you are right. If all the golf courses are closed and agriculture is transitioned to more stable locales, the Southwest would have a fighting chance. However, when you take into account human nature, especially American human nature, the forecast seems darker. More and more, I believe that Collapse seems to be hard-wired into the human collective. It almost seems as if there is a number of humans (n) that serves as an under/over for inevitable collapse. One person can have foresight. Two people, 10 people, 1000 people even. But once you hit 10,000 or so the ability to sway public opinion with money and media becomes too strong. All it takes is a certain percentage of people to be convinced the problem is a conspiracy or a mirage. That is enough to sow doubt more widely, and to sink any efforts towards a reasonable conservation of resources. The Southwest will collapse, and soon. And the number of people denying the existence of a problem will be non-trivial even as the last reservoir dries up. It’s a shame, but it was as Cadillac Desert proves imminently avoidable.
- Kim_Bruning 4y ago
  I'm not so sure. It's an organization problem. Over time people are capable of organizing themselves to overcome pretty much any problem, including large scale environmental events. See eg. Water Boards[1] in the Netherlands for dealing with the inverse problem (regular flooding). Possibly this takes multiple similar disasters in a row before people decide enough is enough. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board_(Netherlands) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board_(Netherlands)
- beder 4y ago
  This reminds me of the fantastic book, A Canticle for Leibowitz, by Walter Miller. He has a similarly pessimistic take.
- musicale 4y ago
  I believe Los Angeles (like many coastal cities) still sends most of its stormwater to the ocean. Capturing more of it could reduce external water requirements.[1] Some of this is being done already, with some 33 billion gallons captured during this current storm season, apparently enough to supply 816K people (of ~4M) for a year.[2] [1] https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-01-06/why-cant-we-capture-all-this-storm-water https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-01-06/why-cant... [2] https://ktla.com/news/local-news/los-angeles-county-collects-33-billion-gallons-of-rainwater-in-recent-storms/ https://ktla.com/news/local-news/los-angeles-county-collects...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
yellowapple 4y ago
If California would put its nice long coastline to use with some proper desal capacity, it would permanently end its own drought and no longer be reliant on the Colorado River. That would in and of itself solve most of the water-related issues in Arizona and Nevada.

selimthegrim 4y ago

Hohokam, not Hokoham.

powerbroker 4y ago

If you drive off the interstates between Kansas and Colorado, there must be 1,000 communities that are either ghost towns, or well below 50% of their peak populations. I'm sure others can speak to the de-population that has happened in their stomping grounds. Now that I do a quick search about the web, this phenomenon is only the tip of the iceberg. Yet, for people here, more urban; more erudite; this feature has gone unnoticed. Will Phoenix, AZ go this same way? https://dailyyonder.com/regional-population-loss-metastasizes-in-the-last-decade/2021/04/27/ https://dailyyonder.com/regional-population-loss-metastasize...

IshKebab 4y ago
Or maybe young people have more opportunities to move away from undesirable locations?

fithisux 4y ago

Conspiracy theories.

UncleEntity 4y ago
Yep… my grandparents, who left Oklahoma because of the Dust Bowl, used to go on and on about how it was a conspiracy theory. /s And Arizona had a proposition on the ballot 20 years ago proposing that all new development needs to show where its water would come from because there wasn’t enough to sustain the amount of development. I’ve seen the writing on the wall and have decided to leave Arizona for greener pastures.