5 ms·

Java in general is deprecated anyway, the sooner enterprises realize this the better

by hellothere1337 4y ago

hotpotamus 4y ago
Legacy code just means anything currently in production I suppose.
- rtkwe 4y ago
  In some sense that's not far from the truth. As soon as something goes to production it starts slipping out of sync with how it could/should be and the layers of dependencies start accumulating that make it harder to change (unless it's just dead code no one is using I suppose).
- dwheeler 4y ago
  That is exactly my point in my presentation "If it works, it’s legacy: analysis of legacy code": https://www.adacore.com/uploads/products/SSAS-Presentations/legacy_01_wheeler_v2.pdf https://www.adacore.com/uploads/products/SSAS-Presentations/... If your software will be used, you are "building the legacy systems of tomorrow".
- captaincaveman 4y ago
  That is painfully close to being true, and truth is, no one wants to maintain code.
jjgreen 4y ago
Thanks for the reminder, we'll get to it as soon at the COBOL migration to Java is completed enterprises
JustSomeNobody 4y ago
I get that HNers lean towards the web and Startup/throw-away culture, but do people really not get that some systems have to run decades?
- bayindirh 4y ago
  I hate to tell that, and I'm not trying to be snarky, but apparently not. Also, many younger developers I chatted with don't understand long living applications and what "use boring tech" means.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    > what "use boring tech" means. Of course we do. It means you use Node 16 instead of 18 because it’s LTS. 2 whole years of support!
- kevinmchugh 4y ago
  I would be pretty worried about the potential for the license cost to skyrocket over those decades
  - kaba0 4y ago
    Well, then don’t pay for a commercial license that includes paid support if you don’t want to pay, it is that easy. All of these articles are FUD.
  - JustSomeNobody 4y ago
    As well you should be and plan for that by either not going with a tech that will increment that way or making damn sure you are profitable enough to pay the bills.
- kaba0 4y ago
  Also, guess what runs that whole “cloud” thingy they deploy their fancy microservices onto..
arkad 4y ago
Right, enterprises should get rid of Java just the same way as they did with COBOL... Oh, wait...
jimmaswell 4y ago
I do wish it would all get replaced by C#/.NET. With no exaggeration, it's better in every conceivable way. Java has no reason to exist beyond inertia when C# can replace it.
- bayindirh 4y ago
  Except you're locked into a more confined ecosystem. It's smooth as long as you're on the happy path dictated by Microsoft. At least Java is open, alternative implementations are present, and can be run on anywhere and everywhere.
  - jimmaswell 4y ago
    C# is open and alternative implementations like Mono exist.
    - bayindirh 4y ago
      Mono is just a side project of Microsoft. A commoditized alternative to Microsoft's toolchain. Miguel was conned into believing that it'll be completely independent like OpenJDK, but it didn't turn out like that. IOW, C# is as open as VSCode.
      - jimmaswell 4y ago
        OpenJDK is a side project of Oracle, too.
        za3faran 4y ago
        Not really. Plus, Red Hat Software, MS, Apple, Amazon, IBM, SAP are all developers for OpenJDK, as well as contributions from other major firms.
    - blibble 4y ago
      does it have an open source debugger yet? https://isdotnetopen.com/ https://isdotnetopen.com/
za3faran 4y ago
That's not really true to the slightest. If anything, the advances in the JVM and the language itself have been making it even more attractive and distinct from its nearest competitors, making the gap even wider in its favor.
- jimmaswell 4y ago
  Do you know C#? Learn it and every time you write any Java you'll think to yourself "I wish I was writing C# instead".
  - za3faran 4y ago
    It does have some nice features, but it can get overwhelming quickly with the pace they're being added at, not to mention some features being quite nuanced or interact with each other in intricate ways. At least for the time being, Java has exhaustive pattern matching and proper enums, whereas C# doesn't.
    - jimmaswell 4y ago
      What's not proper about C# enums?
      - za3faran 4y ago
        They are not distinct types. You can pass ints to methods that accept enums, even if they are outside the enum defined range.
maigret 4y ago
Java is not going anywhere at the moment https://redmonk.com/sogrady/2022/03/28/language-rankings-1-22/ https://redmonk.com/sogrady/2022/03/28/language-rankings-1-2...
kaba0 4y ago
There is no other platform language that would be remotely as good in performance, observability and maintainability at the same time.
sandGorgon 4y ago
java is not just server. the worlds largest mobile phone platform is java. this is all the billions of people who live in Asia. its not gonna go away in our lifetimes.

Java in general is deprecated anyway, the sooner enterprises realize this the better

hotpotamus 4y ago

Legacy code just means anything currently in production I suppose.

rtkwe 4y ago
In some sense that's not far from the truth. As soon as something goes to production it starts slipping out of sync with how it could/should be and the layers of dependencies start accumulating that make it harder to change (unless it's just dead code no one is using I suppose).
dwheeler 4y ago
That is exactly my point in my presentation "If it works, it’s legacy: analysis of legacy code": https://www.adacore.com/uploads/products/SSAS-Presentations/legacy_01_wheeler_v2.pdf https://www.adacore.com/uploads/products/SSAS-Presentations/... If your software will be used, you are "building the legacy systems of tomorrow".
captaincaveman 4y ago
That is painfully close to being true, and truth is, no one wants to maintain code.

jjgreen 4y ago

Thanks for the reminder, we'll get to it as soon at the COBOL migration to Java is completed enterprises

JustSomeNobody 4y ago

I get that HNers lean towards the web and Startup/throw-away culture, but do people really not get that some systems have to run decades?

bayindirh 4y ago
I hate to tell that, and I'm not trying to be snarky, but apparently not. Also, many younger developers I chatted with don't understand long living applications and what "use boring tech" means.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  > what "use boring tech" means. Of course we do. It means you use Node 16 instead of 18 because it’s LTS. 2 whole years of support!
kevinmchugh 4y ago
I would be pretty worried about the potential for the license cost to skyrocket over those decades
- kaba0 4y ago
  Well, then don’t pay for a commercial license that includes paid support if you don’t want to pay, it is that easy. All of these articles are FUD.
- JustSomeNobody 4y ago
  As well you should be and plan for that by either not going with a tech that will increment that way or making damn sure you are profitable enough to pay the bills.
kaba0 4y ago
Also, guess what runs that whole “cloud” thingy they deploy their fancy microservices onto..

arkad 4y ago

Right, enterprises should get rid of Java just the same way as they did with COBOL... Oh, wait...

jimmaswell 4y ago

I do wish it would all get replaced by C#/.NET. With no exaggeration, it's better in every conceivable way. Java has no reason to exist beyond inertia when C# can replace it.

bayindirh 4y ago
Except you're locked into a more confined ecosystem. It's smooth as long as you're on the happy path dictated by Microsoft. At least Java is open, alternative implementations are present, and can be run on anywhere and everywhere.
- jimmaswell 4y ago
  C# is open and alternative implementations like Mono exist.
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    Mono is just a side project of Microsoft. A commoditized alternative to Microsoft's toolchain. Miguel was conned into believing that it'll be completely independent like OpenJDK, but it didn't turn out like that. IOW, C# is as open as VSCode.
    - jimmaswell 4y ago
      OpenJDK is a side project of Oracle, too.
      - za3faran 4y ago
        Not really. Plus, Red Hat Software, MS, Apple, Amazon, IBM, SAP are all developers for OpenJDK, as well as contributions from other major firms.
  - blibble 4y ago
    does it have an open source debugger yet? https://isdotnetopen.com/ https://isdotnetopen.com/

za3faran 4y ago

That's not really true to the slightest. If anything, the advances in the JVM and the language itself have been making it even more attractive and distinct from its nearest competitors, making the gap even wider in its favor.

jimmaswell 4y ago
Do you know C#? Learn it and every time you write any Java you'll think to yourself "I wish I was writing C# instead".
- za3faran 4y ago
  It does have some nice features, but it can get overwhelming quickly with the pace they're being added at, not to mention some features being quite nuanced or interact with each other in intricate ways. At least for the time being, Java has exhaustive pattern matching and proper enums, whereas C# doesn't.
  - jimmaswell 4y ago
    What's not proper about C# enums?
    - za3faran 4y ago
      They are not distinct types. You can pass ints to methods that accept enums, even if they are outside the enum defined range.

maigret 4y ago

Java is not going anywhere at the moment https://redmonk.com/sogrady/2022/03/28/language-rankings-1-22/ https://redmonk.com/sogrady/2022/03/28/language-rankings-1-2...

kaba0 4y ago

There is no other platform language that would be remotely as good in performance, observability and maintainability at the same time.

sandGorgon 4y ago

java is not just server. the worlds largest mobile phone platform is java. this is all the billions of people who live in Asia. its not gonna go away in our lifetimes.