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Looks like some of these "broken" notebooks are actually stolen notebooks. If you buy online, you can contact the seller to solve the issue. It is actually the

Looks like some of these "broken" notebooks are actually stolen notebooks. If you buy online, you can contact the seller to solve the issue. It is actually the point of the feature. If someone knows they could not do anything with the device, they will not steal it (same with new phones). > Apple encourages owners of older devices to participate in the company’s trade-in program Which is a pretty bad program, reusing is always better than recycling. Apple will just scrap it into basic elements: metals, maybe lithium.

chongli 4y ago
I think that’s exactly what is going on here. If you’re a third party reseller who buys used Macs for resale then you need to have the original owner turn off Find My Mac so you can wipe the machine. If the person bringing the machine in for resale isn’t the original owner then, well, it may be stolen.
- dTal 4y ago
  It may. Or it may not be. The default assumption that it's stolen causes a lot of needless waste. And frankly, even if it is stolen, is it really in the best interests of society to effectively destroy such a large investment of time and raw materials as a Macbook? One cannot but help noticing that this policy, like many of Apple's "for your own good" policies, are awfully convenient for Apple's bottom line. There are so many ways this could be resolved without destroying working equipment. Apple presumably knows who the registered owner is - they could be contacted. They could be unlocked at Apple stores, with various details taken to facilitate any potential theft investigation.
  - GeekyBear 4y ago
    > even if it is stolen, is it really in the best interests of society When laws were passed to require Apple to enable the feature by default on it's phones, society certainly seemed to think it was in everyone's best interests. >The temptation of a smartphone for a thief is dropping, thanks to Apple’s decision to implement a remote kill switch via Find My Phone that can erase and disable a phone once it’s been stolen or gone missing. A new report from Reuters found that iPhone theft dropped by 50 percent in London, 40 percent in San Francisco and 25 percent in New York. The drops represent theft activity as measured during the 12 months following Apple’s introduction of the remote locking feature in September 2013 as part of iOS 7. With iOS 8, Apple made its so-called said “kill switch” active by default, in accordance with California regulation, and that should help the rates of theft continue to trend downwards. https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/apples-activation-lock-leads-to-big-drops-in-smartphone-theft-worldwide/ https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/apples-activation-lock-lea...
  - michaelt 4y ago
    > The default assumption that it's stolen causes a lot of needless waste. We're talking about 2-year-old M1 macbooks [1], some of which are worth $1000 unlocked and approximately $0 locked. Even with broken screens etc, the owner can unlock them online. Large institutional owners like schools can get them unlocked in bulk through device management. And even if the institutional owners messed up the device registration and it's been locked to a fired employee's personal account, Apple can unlock them using the original sales records. In the absence of theft, it's difficult to imagine why the owner would be refusing to unlock the device, given they could share $1000 of value with the recycler. There aren't that many macbooks being repossessed by bailiffs. But if the devices have been stolen? That easily explains what is otherwise mysterious. [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgybq7/apple-macbook-activation-lock-right-to-repair https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgybq7/apple-macbook-activat...
    - nicoburns 4y ago
      > In the absence of theft, it's difficult to imagine why the owner would be refusing to unlock the device, It's generally not the owner refusing to unlock. It's the owner not being able to work out how to do it. Forgetting or not knowing they needed to do it. And/or not being contactable.
      - michaelt 4y ago
        So these recyclers have records so thorough they're completely sure these laptops aren't stolen, and yet so incomplete they can't contact the owners at all? Even when hundreds of dollars is at stake, which could surely pay for a few hours of phone calls walking people through the unlock procedure? If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.
        nicoburns 4y ago
        What if neither side of the sale has the technical competence to do this?
        4y ago
hexagonwin 4y ago
The thing is that the ones who steal are going to steal them anyway, even with the locks and sell them for parts. It won't really prevent theft but would only increase ewaste.
- badcppdev 4y ago
  Are you sure? Seems like the market for spare parts would be saturated pretty quickly and the incentive to thieves would be reduced.
- AstixAndBelix 4y ago
  selling something for parts (which implies it will be used to repair other devices) does not sound ewaste-y so me
- jen20 4y ago
  They don’t, though. As cited in the last discussion about this, the theft rate for Apple devices is much lower than ones which are usable by criminals.
- octacat 4y ago
  Many parts of new devices are serial number locked or soldered (or both). Makes the repairs hard though.
lwkl 4y ago
> Which is a pretty bad program, reusing is always better than recycling. Apple will just scrap it into basic elements: metals, maybe lithium. They have a refurbished program so they definitely don't just scrap devices you trade in. Maybe they even scrap some devices for parts. In the server space this is normal. HP would regularly send us refurbished replacement parts for repairs (this is also one of the reason why they want the replaced parts back).
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  Louis Rossmann says they shred them and recycle the raw materials so that nobody can resell for repair.
  - bzzzt 4y ago
    Louis Rossman built a business/cult around criticising everything Apple does for exposure and is not a credible source of unbiased information about Apple's policies.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
      https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphones-macbooks https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphon... > Apple rejects current industry best practices by forcing the recyclers it works with to shred iPhones and MacBooks so they cannot be repaired or reused—instead, they are turned into tiny shards of metal and glass.
      - lwkl 4y ago
        Yeah I never argued that they don’t shred some of the devices. They probably refurbish part of the returns, take parts they need and shred the rest. This is also what’s written on the agreement in the screenshot of this article but they don’t mention it in the article. I don’t live in the US but in Switzerland you have to get the customers approval to refurbish and sell hardware that you take back from customers. This is probably similar in the US.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
> Apple will just scrap… False: for just one counterexample, Apple employees receive refurbs from trade-in as work machines. (Source: First hand experience of years).
- octacat 4y ago
  cool, in this case. OK, they have refurbs on their site: https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished Though something like 2015 year models are not listed.
- acdha 4y ago
  To be honest, I really like that policy: a software developer using a machine which is a couple of years old isn’t going to be as cavalier about performance and the hardware engineers would get a good idea about durability issues.
captainmuon 4y ago
What if the previous owner lost their account, is not reachable, or died? Ideally you should be able to take such a locked device to some official place, like a town hall, and they should be able to look up the previous owner. If they are deceased or they confirm that they no longer want the device, then after checking IDs and so on that office should be able to start the process to unlock the device. (That same department could give you recourse if your house burns down and you loose all your digital accounts, or you are locked out of Google unfairly.) Our civil institutions have not really kept up with technology here. Edit: Of course I wouldn't give government the capability to decrypt anybodys device or something! Just have an organisation that's purpose is to clarify ownership, and wipe and reuse devices so they don't end up as in a landfill. I don't really trust the vendor alone to optimize for reusing used devices.
- mvanbaak 4y ago
  If you can prove you legally obtained the locked apple device, apple can unlock it for you. So this is a solved problem
  - bzzzt 4y ago
    Being given an old MacBook (by the original owner) is legal, but if you don't have a receipt Apple won't do a thing...
    - mvanbaak 4y ago
      That original owner can simply remove the macbook from their appleid and the whole thing is solved, even if the macbook is already in your hands.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  No, this shouldn’t be the case at all. Set this up with your family members if you want this to happen when you die. Give them your 1Password login and recovery keys or something. I do not want anyone, least of all city hall to be able to unlock my stuff under any circumstance, including the one where I’m dead.

chongli 4y ago

I think that’s exactly what is going on here. If you’re a third party reseller who buys used Macs for resale then you need to have the original owner turn off Find My Mac so you can wipe the machine. If the person bringing the machine in for resale isn’t the original owner then, well, it may be stolen.

dTal 4y ago
It may. Or it may not be. The default assumption that it's stolen causes a lot of needless waste. And frankly, even if it is stolen, is it really in the best interests of society to effectively destroy such a large investment of time and raw materials as a Macbook? One cannot but help noticing that this policy, like many of Apple's "for your own good" policies, are awfully convenient for Apple's bottom line. There are so many ways this could be resolved without destroying working equipment. Apple presumably knows who the registered owner is - they could be contacted. They could be unlocked at Apple stores, with various details taken to facilitate any potential theft investigation.
- GeekyBear 4y ago
  > even if it is stolen, is it really in the best interests of society When laws were passed to require Apple to enable the feature by default on it's phones, society certainly seemed to think it was in everyone's best interests. >The temptation of a smartphone for a thief is dropping, thanks to Apple’s decision to implement a remote kill switch via Find My Phone that can erase and disable a phone once it’s been stolen or gone missing. A new report from Reuters found that iPhone theft dropped by 50 percent in London, 40 percent in San Francisco and 25 percent in New York. The drops represent theft activity as measured during the 12 months following Apple’s introduction of the remote locking feature in September 2013 as part of iOS 7. With iOS 8, Apple made its so-called said “kill switch” active by default, in accordance with California regulation, and that should help the rates of theft continue to trend downwards. https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/apples-activation-lock-leads-to-big-drops-in-smartphone-theft-worldwide/ https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/apples-activation-lock-lea...
- michaelt 4y ago
  > The default assumption that it's stolen causes a lot of needless waste. We're talking about 2-year-old M1 macbooks [1], some of which are worth $1000 unlocked and approximately $0 locked. Even with broken screens etc, the owner can unlock them online. Large institutional owners like schools can get them unlocked in bulk through device management. And even if the institutional owners messed up the device registration and it's been locked to a fired employee's personal account, Apple can unlock them using the original sales records. In the absence of theft, it's difficult to imagine why the owner would be refusing to unlock the device, given they could share $1000 of value with the recycler. There aren't that many macbooks being repossessed by bailiffs. But if the devices have been stolen? That easily explains what is otherwise mysterious. [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgybq7/apple-macbook-activation-lock-right-to-repair https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgybq7/apple-macbook-activat...
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    > In the absence of theft, it's difficult to imagine why the owner would be refusing to unlock the device, It's generally not the owner refusing to unlock. It's the owner not being able to work out how to do it. Forgetting or not knowing they needed to do it. And/or not being contactable.
    - michaelt 4y ago
      So these recyclers have records so thorough they're completely sure these laptops aren't stolen, and yet so incomplete they can't contact the owners at all? Even when hundreds of dollars is at stake, which could surely pay for a few hours of phone calls walking people through the unlock procedure? If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.
      - nicoburns 4y ago
        What if neither side of the sale has the technical competence to do this?
        4y ago

hexagonwin 4y ago

The thing is that the ones who steal are going to steal them anyway, even with the locks and sell them for parts. It won't really prevent theft but would only increase ewaste.

badcppdev 4y ago
Are you sure? Seems like the market for spare parts would be saturated pretty quickly and the incentive to thieves would be reduced.
AstixAndBelix 4y ago
selling something for parts (which implies it will be used to repair other devices) does not sound ewaste-y so me
jen20 4y ago
They don’t, though. As cited in the last discussion about this, the theft rate for Apple devices is much lower than ones which are usable by criminals.
octacat 4y ago
Many parts of new devices are serial number locked or soldered (or both). Makes the repairs hard though.

lwkl 4y ago

> Which is a pretty bad program, reusing is always better than recycling. Apple will just scrap it into basic elements: metals, maybe lithium. They have a refurbished program so they definitely don't just scrap devices you trade in. Maybe they even scrap some devices for parts. In the server space this is normal. HP would regularly send us refurbished replacement parts for repairs (this is also one of the reason why they want the replaced parts back).

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
Louis Rossmann says they shred them and recycle the raw materials so that nobody can resell for repair.
- bzzzt 4y ago
  Louis Rossman built a business/cult around criticising everything Apple does for exposure and is not a credible source of unbiased information about Apple's policies.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphones-macbooks https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphon... > Apple rejects current industry best practices by forcing the recyclers it works with to shred iPhones and MacBooks so they cannot be repaired or reused—instead, they are turned into tiny shards of metal and glass.
    - lwkl 4y ago
      Yeah I never argued that they don’t shred some of the devices. They probably refurbish part of the returns, take parts they need and shred the rest. This is also what’s written on the agreement in the screenshot of this article but they don’t mention it in the article. I don’t live in the US but in Switzerland you have to get the customers approval to refurbish and sell hardware that you take back from customers. This is probably similar in the US.

jjtheblunt 4y ago

> Apple will just scrap… False: for just one counterexample, Apple employees receive refurbs from trade-in as work machines. (Source: First hand experience of years).

octacat 4y ago
cool, in this case. OK, they have refurbs on their site: https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished Though something like 2015 year models are not listed.
acdha 4y ago
To be honest, I really like that policy: a software developer using a machine which is a couple of years old isn’t going to be as cavalier about performance and the hardware engineers would get a good idea about durability issues.

captainmuon 4y ago

What if the previous owner lost their account, is not reachable, or died? Ideally you should be able to take such a locked device to some official place, like a town hall, and they should be able to look up the previous owner. If they are deceased or they confirm that they no longer want the device, then after checking IDs and so on that office should be able to start the process to unlock the device. (That same department could give you recourse if your house burns down and you loose all your digital accounts, or you are locked out of Google unfairly.) Our civil institutions have not really kept up with technology here. Edit: Of course I wouldn't give government the capability to decrypt anybodys device or something! Just have an organisation that's purpose is to clarify ownership, and wipe and reuse devices so they don't end up as in a landfill. I don't really trust the vendor alone to optimize for reusing used devices.

mvanbaak 4y ago
If you can prove you legally obtained the locked apple device, apple can unlock it for you. So this is a solved problem
- bzzzt 4y ago
  Being given an old MacBook (by the original owner) is legal, but if you don't have a receipt Apple won't do a thing...
  - mvanbaak 4y ago
    That original owner can simply remove the macbook from their appleid and the whole thing is solved, even if the macbook is already in your hands.
ethanbond 4y ago
No, this shouldn’t be the case at all. Set this up with your family members if you want this to happen when you die. Give them your 1Password login and recovery keys or something. I do not want anyone, least of all city hall to be able to unlock my stuff under any circumstance, including the one where I’m dead.