4 ms·

Might be simple but still unattainable to a huge swath of guys. It's like trying to tell someone not to freak out before a job interview - just go there, be you

Might be simple but still unattainable to a huge swath of guys. It's like trying to tell someone not to freak out before a job interview - just go there, be yourself and don't care about the outcome. Let me know how well that worked out...

nkingsy 4y ago
Correct. If I had a cure I might still be doing it. Like I said, some people are broken. What I've described is more fundamental. It probably will be of more assistance to people doing okay with some hangups than people whose self esteem is not in a place where flirting can be an uplifting activity. Edit: -Therapy -Dance classes (not for flirting, just having positive touch experiences)
- avmich 4y ago
  What kind of therapy? Dance classes could be still a downlifting experience but yes, could still be beneficial, even though not by much. Some numbing could be achieved, when after downfall one reaches a plato where for some range of input conditions the output doesn't worsen.
  - nkingsy 4y ago
    I meant talk therapy. Therapy is tough because a good therapist is probably very expensive, and might be a major expense for someone. Cheaper options would be trauma or addiction groups if those fit. A lot of people have just horrible “truths” they absorbed from their upbringing that need to be deprogrammed. Framing this as a parental trauma and working through it in a group setting could be useful. Some people have had success with MDMA or psilocybin
sangnoir 4y ago
The trick is to not be desperate for the job, and to schedule as many job interviews as humanly possible until it's just a thing you do[1]. Most people don't feel great after each rejection and so are not willing to put in the work. 1. The same strategy applies to public speaking, or product demos, or chairing a meeting, or systems design for people who feel they are not good at it. The human mind is incredibly adaptable and has great capacity for learning when exposed to new environments. The only exception is if the person has some kind of trauma or psychological wall and exposure harms them - in that case, I recommend talking to a professional first.
- avmich 4y ago
  > Most people don't feel great after each rejection and so are not willing to put in the work. Don't talk lightly about such things. Rejections are a known cause for suicides. > The only exception is if the person has some kind of trauma or psychological wall and exposure harms them - in that case, I recommend talking to a professional first. It's likely everybody had a rejection at least once. It's also likely a large percent didn't particularly enjoy the outcome. I don't think that so many people should seek professional help though - or it should be something very different from what we assume now.
  - OkayPhysicist 4y ago
    There's a huge difference between "being rejected, and a bit bummed about it" and "being rejected, and being traumatized by it". The only way anybody gets good at anything is repeated failures. While learning to ice skate, you get some bruises from falling on your ass. Get up, dust yourself off, keep trying. If you fall down and break your arm, maybe get some professional help before trying again.
    - avmich 4y ago
      There could be an ocean of difference between failures learning to skate and failures learning to get dates, to the point it's not interesting to compare. At very least to some people.
      - nradov 4y ago
        What's the difference? Both are skills that can be improved through frequent practice.
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    > Don't talk lightly about such things. Rejections are a known cause for suicides. If being rejected by a potential employer or potential sexual partner results in suicide ideation - I strongly recommend talking to a professional expeditiously. A person in a healthy state of mind can be disappointed by rejection, but ought to realize that a self-fulfilling fear response while interacting with the potential employer/partner is unhelpful and take steps to mitigate future occurrences.

nkingsy 4y ago

Correct. If I had a cure I might still be doing it. Like I said, some people are broken. What I've described is more fundamental. It probably will be of more assistance to people doing okay with some hangups than people whose self esteem is not in a place where flirting can be an uplifting activity. Edit: -Therapy -Dance classes (not for flirting, just having positive touch experiences)

avmich 4y ago
What kind of therapy? Dance classes could be still a downlifting experience but yes, could still be beneficial, even though not by much. Some numbing could be achieved, when after downfall one reaches a plato where for some range of input conditions the output doesn't worsen.
- nkingsy 4y ago
  I meant talk therapy. Therapy is tough because a good therapist is probably very expensive, and might be a major expense for someone. Cheaper options would be trauma or addiction groups if those fit. A lot of people have just horrible “truths” they absorbed from their upbringing that need to be deprogrammed. Framing this as a parental trauma and working through it in a group setting could be useful. Some people have had success with MDMA or psilocybin

sangnoir 4y ago

The trick is to not be desperate for the job, and to schedule as many job interviews as humanly possible until it's just a thing you do[1]. Most people don't feel great after each rejection and so are not willing to put in the work. 1. The same strategy applies to public speaking, or product demos, or chairing a meeting, or systems design for people who feel they are not good at it. The human mind is incredibly adaptable and has great capacity for learning when exposed to new environments. The only exception is if the person has some kind of trauma or psychological wall and exposure harms them - in that case, I recommend talking to a professional first.

avmich 4y ago
> Most people don't feel great after each rejection and so are not willing to put in the work. Don't talk lightly about such things. Rejections are a known cause for suicides. > The only exception is if the person has some kind of trauma or psychological wall and exposure harms them - in that case, I recommend talking to a professional first. It's likely everybody had a rejection at least once. It's also likely a large percent didn't particularly enjoy the outcome. I don't think that so many people should seek professional help though - or it should be something very different from what we assume now.
- OkayPhysicist 4y ago
  There's a huge difference between "being rejected, and a bit bummed about it" and "being rejected, and being traumatized by it". The only way anybody gets good at anything is repeated failures. While learning to ice skate, you get some bruises from falling on your ass. Get up, dust yourself off, keep trying. If you fall down and break your arm, maybe get some professional help before trying again.
  - avmich 4y ago
    There could be an ocean of difference between failures learning to skate and failures learning to get dates, to the point it's not interesting to compare. At very least to some people.
    - nradov 4y ago
      What's the difference? Both are skills that can be improved through frequent practice.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  > Don't talk lightly about such things. Rejections are a known cause for suicides. If being rejected by a potential employer or potential sexual partner results in suicide ideation - I strongly recommend talking to a professional expeditiously. A person in a healthy state of mind can be disappointed by rejection, but ought to realize that a self-fulfilling fear response while interacting with the potential employer/partner is unhelpful and take steps to mitigate future occurrences.