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This is hilarious. They found that young men are having less sex, young women are not having less sex, and some young men are having way more sex. And they conc

This is hilarious. They found that young men are having less sex, young women are not having less sex, and some young men are having way more sex. And they conclude the problem is "loneliness". No, dude, the problem is young men are increasingly not worth having sex with. This of course has precedence in the natural world. Not every male is always having sex. Most often, a smaller number of males that are considered the most desirable sire more children. It's a Darwin thing: you mate with the most successful of your species to carry the best genes and adapt to your environment better to survive longer. But it doesn't have to be that way. More males could simply become more attractive partners. Or more females could lower their standards (but honestly I think their standards have been low enough... I mean, have you seen my gender, next to its opposite?). Rather than treat sexual loneliness as some kind of unfortunate but normal condition, let's encourage these people to make themselves more attractive. And by attractive I mean the general concept of desirability, which encompasses the entire spectrum of the human condition, not just the body or some societal trope of gender norms.

amelius 4y ago
It's also because men who are in a relationship are way more attractive to women than men who aren't or haven't been, regardless of other factors.
- 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  That... isn't indicated by the data. There would have to be a simultaneous increase in the number of men cheating on their SOs at the same time as a decrease in sex with single men, for.... no apparent reason.
throwaway6734 4y ago
> I mean, have you seen my gender, next to its opposite? This is an incredibly sexist point of view. Cultural expectations for the role of women in society have been continuously expanded while nothing remotely similar has been done for men.
bmn__ 4y ago
> No, dude, the problem is young men are increasingly not worth having sex with. That's some victim blaming if I've ever seen one. No, dude, the problem is not that men have changed, but societal circumstances have, and women just act according to the new environment they have been afforded. Increasing one's market value (desirability) works, but that's doctoring the symptoms instead of healing the root cause. It ceases working if everyone hears about the idea and does it.
- 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  Your argument proves my point. If it's true that women are "acting in accord with a new environment", and in the new environment, there is less need to have sex with them, or new standards dictate higher requirements for sex, then by definition their worth has been devalued... therefore, less worth having sex with. It's also possible that men have changed, and are increasingly becoming hikikomori due to increased adoption of introverted online social pursuits, or increased pornography or toxic male cultures, or whatever reason you choose. But regardless of whether they have changed or haven't, they are simply less valuable today, and they need to adapt if they want to have sex more. Hence the onus is on them to improve themselves. It's not victim-blaming, it's fact-stating. The alternative would be to revert the culture. Jordan Petersen's fans would love it if women would just shut up and go back to the kitchen and do what they're told, I don't think women really like that idea.
  - bmn__ 4y ago
    There seems to be an underlying assumption that because men are expendable, we ought to structure the way we live according to this principle (naturalist fallacy). Tell me whether I understand this correctly or whether I read too much into it. > [men] are simply less valuable today, and they need to adapt […] The alternative would be to revert the culture. False dichotomy alert. In reality, there are many more things we can do. The feminist forebears a hundred years ago fought for rights and equality; they would fall faint with shame if they could see how women in our times betray the ideals and can act so childish, selfish, entitled, cruel and dishonourable. We could start by putting responsibility on the shoulders of women. Here are some ideas how that could look concretely: 1. Teach women that treating 80% of men as not worthy of interacting with is unreasonable and has grave, society-wide first-order and second-order effects. Just as men need to control their instincts (immense sex drive) for a well functioning social environment, women need to control theirs (hypergamy). 2. End the sexist practice of giving women preferential treatment based on the women-are-wonderful effect, particularly where it matters most, namely in court. Men can help with that and learn to keep their paternal protection instinct in check which expresses in the practice of white-knighting. 3. Threat of violence is an effective means to curb excesses of bad behaviour, this should be familiar to people who grew up in e.g. Islam. I understand the thought comes across as revolting to HN readers who are mostly liberal-minded westerners unless one is generations older, holds an orthodox-conservative world-view for some other reason or has been reading a lot of Heinlein. Just as men must align their life with this concept in mind, women should too (once again). I'm doing my part to diminish the suffering; often I think this generation is lost, but I can still exert influence over the next one to some degree. Children can't become $APPROPRIATE_COLOUR-pilled early enough. > women would just shut up and go back to the kitchen and do what they're told, I don't think women really like that idea. It's very clear that women hate being pressured to spend a life long relationship with a man they do not really love or want; it's similar to slavery. I do not wish that upon any of my fellow human beings. If there really are JP fans who think that way, then I condemn that; that's not a good interpretation of what JP said. I want them to reconsider and think hard to come up with better solutions.

amelius 4y ago

It's also because men who are in a relationship are way more attractive to women than men who aren't or haven't been, regardless of other factors.

0xbadcafebee 4y ago
That... isn't indicated by the data. There would have to be a simultaneous increase in the number of men cheating on their SOs at the same time as a decrease in sex with single men, for.... no apparent reason.

throwaway6734 4y ago

> I mean, have you seen my gender, next to its opposite? This is an incredibly sexist point of view. Cultural expectations for the role of women in society have been continuously expanded while nothing remotely similar has been done for men.

bmn__ 4y ago

> No, dude, the problem is young men are increasingly not worth having sex with. That's some victim blaming if I've ever seen one. No, dude, the problem is not that men have changed, but societal circumstances have, and women just act according to the new environment they have been afforded. Increasing one's market value (desirability) works, but that's doctoring the symptoms instead of healing the root cause. It ceases working if everyone hears about the idea and does it.

0xbadcafebee 4y ago
Your argument proves my point. If it's true that women are "acting in accord with a new environment", and in the new environment, there is less need to have sex with them, or new standards dictate higher requirements for sex, then by definition their worth has been devalued... therefore, less worth having sex with. It's also possible that men have changed, and are increasingly becoming hikikomori due to increased adoption of introverted online social pursuits, or increased pornography or toxic male cultures, or whatever reason you choose. But regardless of whether they have changed or haven't, they are simply less valuable today, and they need to adapt if they want to have sex more. Hence the onus is on them to improve themselves. It's not victim-blaming, it's fact-stating. The alternative would be to revert the culture. Jordan Petersen's fans would love it if women would just shut up and go back to the kitchen and do what they're told, I don't think women really like that idea.
- bmn__ 4y ago
  There seems to be an underlying assumption that because men are expendable, we ought to structure the way we live according to this principle (naturalist fallacy). Tell me whether I understand this correctly or whether I read too much into it. > [men] are simply less valuable today, and they need to adapt […] The alternative would be to revert the culture. False dichotomy alert. In reality, there are many more things we can do. The feminist forebears a hundred years ago fought for rights and equality; they would fall faint with shame if they could see how women in our times betray the ideals and can act so childish, selfish, entitled, cruel and dishonourable. We could start by putting responsibility on the shoulders of women. Here are some ideas how that could look concretely: 1. Teach women that treating 80% of men as not worthy of interacting with is unreasonable and has grave, society-wide first-order and second-order effects. Just as men need to control their instincts (immense sex drive) for a well functioning social environment, women need to control theirs (hypergamy). 2. End the sexist practice of giving women preferential treatment based on the women-are-wonderful effect, particularly where it matters most, namely in court. Men can help with that and learn to keep their paternal protection instinct in check which expresses in the practice of white-knighting. 3. Threat of violence is an effective means to curb excesses of bad behaviour, this should be familiar to people who grew up in e.g. Islam. I understand the thought comes across as revolting to HN readers who are mostly liberal-minded westerners unless one is generations older, holds an orthodox-conservative world-view for some other reason or has been reading a lot of Heinlein. Just as men must align their life with this concept in mind, women should too (once again). I'm doing my part to diminish the suffering; often I think this generation is lost, but I can still exert influence over the next one to some degree. Children can't become $APPROPRIATE_COLOUR-pilled early enough. > women would just shut up and go back to the kitchen and do what they're told, I don't think women really like that idea. It's very clear that women hate being pressured to spend a life long relationship with a man they do not really love or want; it's similar to slavery. I do not wish that upon any of my fellow human beings. If there really are JP fans who think that way, then I condemn that; that's not a good interpretation of what JP said. I want them to reconsider and think hard to come up with better solutions.