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Definitely old schools. I am building a MVP right now(kinda building my parachute while jumping off the plane)and I went with Django. And here is why. 1. Very
by ultrasounder 4y ago
Definitely old schools. I am building a MVP right now(kinda building my parachute while jumping off the plane)and I went with Django. And here is why.
1. Very vibrant community of devs and time-tested open-source libraries.If you want a multi-tenancy there is a library for that. IF you want stripe integration there is one for that. If you want "fully built out" services, then we have a plethora of free and paid templates. There are folks here(HN User rlawson)who have built many side projects using Django that they have monitized. if that monetization is your goal, then time is money and Django is your friend.
2. Very easy to deploy. This is a Major major requirement for someone like me(dabbling in webdev). Even after the demise of Heroku hobby dynos, there are things like Railway.app which lets you git deploy app, try it out and then scale it if you want.
3. Lastly, Javascript not necessary- I am a "hobby python dev". I don't have the inclination nor the time to learn yet another Javascript framework. I have an idea, know a bit of Python and I want to iterate it on my idea fast and get to the customer ASAP. Meaning, I can deploy a MVP without having to dabble with JS while jumping through all the different web pack configurations. A big win for me.
So, "boring stack" definitely.
- FlyingSnake 4y agoIt’s funny that only in our industry “time tested”/“battle tested” is called old school and frowned upon. No wonder we see software bloat everywhere.
- ZephyrBlu 4y agoJS frameworks are also battle tested. "old school" is not necessarily a bonus because the common paradigms have shifted. Using Django with React is not as easy as a full-stack framework like Next.js. Modern tech stacks are now generally moving towards either full-stack JS frameworks like Next.js, Remix, Astro, etc and/or serverless with things like railway.app, fly.io, Cloudflare Workers, Deno Deploy, Supabase, neon.tech, etc. Many features of "old school" frameworks are becoming redundant or are being replaced by options with better DX.
- FlyingSnake 4y agoI do not want to start a flamewar, but most of the things you mentioned Next.js, Remix, Astro, fly.io etc are not even 6 years old. Django is running production ready code since about 2006 and has more shelf life. I was not downvoting JS but in terms of longevity and robustness, Django has that going for it.
- brookst 4y agoEh, I think experimental physicists and medical imaging also lean towards newer tech.
- randomh3r0 4y agoEh.. you'd be surprised. Medical Imaging isn't as radical as you may think it is (I spent 7 years doing projects for the exploitation of medical images).
- incompleteCode 4y agoAnecdotal, but a co-worker’s parent works at NHIS and I’ve heard they’ve adopted Kubernetes.
- brookst 4y agoI’ve had the pleasure of annual echo cardiograms my whole life, and moved around a lot, and at least my experience has been visible hardware/software/imagine improvements almost annually. In any event I wasn’t saying all medical imaging is state of the art, I was saying it is another field where people prefer newer tech.
- randomh3r0 4y agoAbsolutely fair. The vendors have gotten much much better tech "in the room" as it were - CT's are lightning fast anymore, US is clearer and can do more on-the-fly analysis than ever before (e.g. highlighting bloodflow dynamically and capturing tons of data in microseconds), etc. Every modality has grown tremendously so my comment wasn't nearly fair enough in acknowledging that. Downstream is getting better with items such as AI advancements and more sophisticated mechanisms to transfer data between systems both on-prem and cloud-based, however utilization of all of this tend to be stifled a ton by the standard issue of tech moving faster than policy. My frustration/disgruntlement is due to this issue more than anything. Thanks for the insight and the reminder that my bubble of experience isn't the world - seriously.
- marcosdumay 4y ago
- humans2 4y ago[dead]
- nicbou 4y agoAgreed, although I'd really like to throw in type safety, because the lack of it made my life needlessly complicated. Is this feasible with Python?
- mattficke 4y agoIt’s not enforced at runtime, but otherwise I feel like typing is in a pretty good place in Python right now. If you’re diligent about using Pyright or MyPy as linters it makes life a lot easier.
- bm-rf 4y agoType hints in python also work great with vscode (and probably other IDEs) as it can offer better autocomplete suggestions for things like function parameters.
- gmassman 4y agoType hints in Python are nice, by pale in comparison to truly typed languages. If you want to feel like your language’s type system significantly improves your development experience and the safety of your code, don’t pick Python.
- nicbou 4y agoWhat would be a nice contender for someone who is otherwise happy with Python? I love that I can use it for darn near anything.
- iwebdevfromhome 4y agoone thing I'd like to see in Django is something similar to InertiaJS [1], just being able to use VueJS for the view layer is amazing and passing data from the backend to the frontend without having to build complex api systems is a godsend. Maybe I haven't done enough research but is there something similar in Django world ? [1] https://inertiajs.com/ https://inertiajs.com/
- ebalit 4y agoReactivated [1] looks similar in spirit, but using React on the frontend. I haven't tested it yet but the idea is very interesting. [1] https://www.reactivated.io/ https://www.reactivated.io/
- c17r 4y agohttps://github.com/inertiajs/inertia-django https://github.com/inertiajs/inertia-django
- kolanos 4y agoStill a bit raw on the edges, but IDOM [0] looks interesting and has a Django integration [1]. [0]: https://idom-docs.herokuapp.com/docs/index.html https://idom-docs.herokuapp.com/docs/index.html [1]: https://github.com/idom-team/django-idom https://github.com/idom-team/django-idom
- iwebdevfromhome 4y agointeresting, is this something similar to htmx ?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- readonthegoapp 4y agoIs there a multitenancy package? Is it this one? https://djangopackages.org/grids/g/multi-tenancy/ https://djangopackages.org/grids/g/multi-tenancy/ I know there is a paid one.
- ultrasounder 4y agoYes this is the one. Or one could also use the https://django-tenant-schemas.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ https://django-tenant-schemas.readthedocs.io/en/latest/. I don’t want to plug any paid options for obvious reasons but they are posted here regularly
- clint 4y agoFor context I'm someone who spent nearly 20 years doing almost exclusively python dev, attended the first DjangoCon in 2008, ran the Django community blog during its formation heyday back in the mid 2000's and built tons of Django modules, apps, sites etc, have commits on the Project from way-back, tech edited Django books, etc... Did rails for a short while in 2010-2012 and absolutely hated it then spent 2012-2020 doing mostly Python/Flask dev for huge fintech companies on AWS. I now use Javascript/React/Nextjs on Firebase/Google Cloud. So much less hassle, tons more libraries and what seems like an exponentially larger ecosystem. There's still weird shit with transpiling typescript to javascript etc... but overall I enjoy JS dev much more these days.
- christiangenco 4y agoI had a similar journey but with Rails and ended up in a similar place. React+Nextjs on Firebase makes the deployment and scaling steps so much easier than on Rails. I'm very conscious of the platform risk of depending so much on Firebase but gosh darn it they've spoiled me.
- alexalx666 4y agoBe aware that firebase or aws are only good until you have actual traffic. So in many cases you just loose time you spent understanding their managed infra. I would advice to go with Linode. As a bonus you get to lean new techs that are not tied to crazy managed pricing :)
- afgrant 4y agoI would be interested in hearing of any instance where Firebase costs created financial hardship.
- moneywoes 4y agoAny tutorials for handling next js and a private server ( like linode)
- uncommonGeo 4y agoIf the traffic to your app is generating a significant Firebase bill then you have probably moved from MVP to successful app territory. Would you rather start managing more infra or focus on keep building features that add value to the app?
- hooverd 4y agoThe one thing that Django is missing is the ability to attach a User object to a session without a full-fledged RDBMS. I wish it was structured like the Session object which you can in your own backends for.
- jsmeaton 4y agoThis is unlikely to ever happen though since so much is tied to it like the permissions system and the admin. The ORM itself is central. I wouldn’t use Django unless your project depends on an RDBMS.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 4y agoEven if not using a database, I will always reach for Django over a Flask or FastAPI. Yes, there is more boilerplate when just offering a few memory views, but there is so much ecosystem built around the tooling that the expense is worth it. Just making a form or sending an email from Flask requires a third party library which will never receive the level of maintenance as first-party Django. As an example, the often recommended (still mentioned on the Flask Mega-Tutorial) Flask-Mail package last had a commit in 2014.
- jsmeaton 4y agoFair. I'd probably reach for it too if I had any kind of frontend required, even if that were just HTML and forms. For server-only applications I'd probably go with FastAPI these days and I'm actually looking forward to an all-in-one framework that encompasses FastAPI as the core.
- agumonkey 4y agodo you still use builtin views/templates ?
- ultrasounder 4y agoYes! Trying to keep it as simple as possible! Might try this whole HTML over the wire after I have made some dough. Not now tho. My customers don’t give a damn about my stack
- cushychicken 4y agoDid a big migration from Flask to Django for my main side project for all of these reasons earlier this year. I love Django. It's criminally underrated. Side project if anyone's interested in peeping it: https://www.fpgajobs.com https://www.fpgajobs.com
- thettiguy 4y agoI’d imagine many are curious like me … are you making any money on this? I have a similar Niche job site I’m thinking of
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ultrasounder 4y agoFellow EE here and love what you do! Loved your post on scraping.Btw, I thought you used Flask. Looks like I was wrong.
- cushychicken 4y agoThanks for the kind words. It’s probably time for me to revise that a bit, or write another one. I’ve learned a lot more yet since I wrote that. I used to use Flask, but I changed over to Django at the end of 2022. Super happy I did. It wasn’t painless, but the benefits have been totally worth it.
- heavyheavy 4y agoWhat were the benefits switching over to Django from Flask?
- cushychicken 4y agoBatteries included admin console with easily configurable model views. Built in migrations. Can’t possibly overstate how much this has helped ease deployment. Most of the live debug and prod edits I had to do on the older app were due to db migrations not being shipped with the app. A baked in ORM with lots of backend optimizations like pagination that keep your queries fast, plus convenience functions for model creation and retrieval (long live get_or_create) There was a learning curve to all of this, and the complexity of all this in the tutorial scared me away at first, but having seen how the other half lives with Flask, where there are no guardrails for anything, I really appreciate having a framework that solves these kinds of challenges for me.
- noveltyaccount 4y agoIMO for early stage startups, proven tech is almost always a better bet than the hot new thing. Your goal is to capture market share quickly, not wrangle beta tech into place.