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I actually saw this myself recently while looking at Netflix job listings before I ran across this article. Almost seems like they're sticking up their middle f

I actually saw this myself recently while looking at Netflix job listings before I ran across this article. Almost seems like they're sticking up their middle finger to "the man" for making them post pay ranges.

NickC25 4y ago
Yeah, it seems like malicious compliance. I mean, I get it. Companies don't want to disclose what they pay. But providing a relatively smaller range that better reflects what someone in that position might expect to get in reality might not be that hard, no? The $90k-$900k might look like $200k to $500k after that. Still quite ambiguous, but more reasonable. Otherwise, I'm having a hard time believing most of the advertised positions aren't in the process of being filled by internal staff, or being recruited for with an internal team that has the actual salary range, and Netflix or similar companies that do this sort of stuff just to post jobs online because of some legal requirement. IIRC in some states you can't actually hire someone unless you've actually posted the job opening online somewhere.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Imagine that I'm an employer and I am hiring for a position that I think could generate $1.5M/yr in value for the company. I'm probably willing to pay the perfect person $1M/yr for that (plus 20-25% in fringe expenses). Some people might want all cash; others might want mostly RSUs. I'd want to pay the first person $900K in cash and $100K in shares. I'd want to pay the second person $100K in cash and $900K in shares. The law requires me to post only the cash portion of their compensation; from the above facts, my range is quite genuinely $100K to $900K.
  - sgerenser 4y ago
    Except Netflix compensation is famously all-cash (with the option to buy Netflix options with some portion of that cash monthly).
  - Jcampuzano2 4y ago
    Yeah this is one of the huge blind spots in industries where compensation is not in the form of cash/benefits. Discretionary income like bonuses and stock grants are often not included in these laws. So the pay ranges at companies/industries where people often have the choice between a more cash heavy vs more RSU/Stock heavy compensation can be quite drastic like the one here without actually being incorrect, though obviously Netflix/other large tech companies can be outliers. Other industries that are very bonus or commision heavy can also get away with posting very "weird" looking pay ranges as well.
  - nerdponx 4y ago
    That's a very very specific and uncommon case.
- sgerenser 4y ago
  I missed that there was a posting on HN about Netflix's posted salary ranges a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34268691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34268691. There were people in there that knew Netflix employees who got 700k-1M pay packages, so in reality it doesn't seem like the top end of the range is definitely out of the question. I'm pretty sure the bottom end though is way below what they would actually pay for these posted senior engineer positions.
- TimPC 4y ago
  The law requires they actually list the absolute maximum for the position so if they ever pay $900k they need to list it. This means they list a low end that is unrealistic so that people think the whole range isn’t serious and it doesn’t turn into almost everyone applying wanting $800-900k.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    That contradicts a line in the article (and in the laws that I've read) > “The laws say you should post the ranges that you reasonably expect to pay,” If I reasonably expect to pay up to $900K/yr and I find an amazing candidate that I want to pay $1M/yr, I can almost certainly do so without it being a violation of the law.
oofta-boofta 4y ago
> Almost seems like they're sticking up their middle finger to "the man" for making them post pay ranges. Attempting to portray Netflix as anything else other than a conglomerate doing it's damnedest to pay as little as possible is disingenuous at best, and astroturfing at it's worst. Since when was Netflix the little guy sticking up to "the man"? Netflix IS "the man". Lack of pay transparency only benefits one side: the company's.
- andsoitis 4y ago
  > a conglomerate doing it's damnedest to pay as little as possible Netflix pays some of the highest compensation in the industry, and all cash at that.

NickC25 4y ago

Yeah, it seems like malicious compliance. I mean, I get it. Companies don't want to disclose what they pay. But providing a relatively smaller range that better reflects what someone in that position might expect to get in reality might not be that hard, no? The $90k-$900k might look like $200k to $500k after that. Still quite ambiguous, but more reasonable. Otherwise, I'm having a hard time believing most of the advertised positions aren't in the process of being filled by internal staff, or being recruited for with an internal team that has the actual salary range, and Netflix or similar companies that do this sort of stuff just to post jobs online because of some legal requirement. IIRC in some states you can't actually hire someone unless you've actually posted the job opening online somewhere.

sokoloff 4y ago
Imagine that I'm an employer and I am hiring for a position that I think could generate $1.5M/yr in value for the company. I'm probably willing to pay the perfect person $1M/yr for that (plus 20-25% in fringe expenses). Some people might want all cash; others might want mostly RSUs. I'd want to pay the first person $900K in cash and $100K in shares. I'd want to pay the second person $100K in cash and $900K in shares. The law requires me to post only the cash portion of their compensation; from the above facts, my range is quite genuinely $100K to $900K.
- sgerenser 4y ago
  Except Netflix compensation is famously all-cash (with the option to buy Netflix options with some portion of that cash monthly).
- Jcampuzano2 4y ago
  Yeah this is one of the huge blind spots in industries where compensation is not in the form of cash/benefits. Discretionary income like bonuses and stock grants are often not included in these laws. So the pay ranges at companies/industries where people often have the choice between a more cash heavy vs more RSU/Stock heavy compensation can be quite drastic like the one here without actually being incorrect, though obviously Netflix/other large tech companies can be outliers. Other industries that are very bonus or commision heavy can also get away with posting very "weird" looking pay ranges as well.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  That's a very very specific and uncommon case.
sgerenser 4y ago
I missed that there was a posting on HN about Netflix's posted salary ranges a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34268691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34268691. There were people in there that knew Netflix employees who got 700k-1M pay packages, so in reality it doesn't seem like the top end of the range is definitely out of the question. I'm pretty sure the bottom end though is way below what they would actually pay for these posted senior engineer positions.
TimPC 4y ago
The law requires they actually list the absolute maximum for the position so if they ever pay $900k they need to list it. This means they list a low end that is unrealistic so that people think the whole range isn’t serious and it doesn’t turn into almost everyone applying wanting $800-900k.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  That contradicts a line in the article (and in the laws that I've read) > “The laws say you should post the ranges that you reasonably expect to pay,” If I reasonably expect to pay up to $900K/yr and I find an amazing candidate that I want to pay $1M/yr, I can almost certainly do so without it being a violation of the law.

oofta-boofta 4y ago

> Almost seems like they're sticking up their middle finger to "the man" for making them post pay ranges. Attempting to portray Netflix as anything else other than a conglomerate doing it's damnedest to pay as little as possible is disingenuous at best, and astroturfing at it's worst. Since when was Netflix the little guy sticking up to "the man"? Netflix IS "the man". Lack of pay transparency only benefits one side: the company's.

andsoitis 4y ago
> a conglomerate doing it's damnedest to pay as little as possible Netflix pays some of the highest compensation in the industry, and all cash at that.