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>The crypto scammer paid a huge bail and got out on his private jet. Locally, it's a somewhat significant problem that people are getting caught for violent cr

>The crypto scammer paid a huge bail and got out on his private jet. Locally, it's a somewhat significant problem that people are getting caught for violent crimes and getting released immediately and reoffending.

Dylan16807 4y ago
Why is it a problem? Do they get bail a second time? Do you think they wouldn't reoffend if they weren't released until after they are punished? If they do two crimes and get two sentences, does it matter if that's AABB or ABAB?
- Joker_vD 4y ago
  Well, because there are now e.g. two cases of murder instead of only one, and the second one was entirely preventable? Oh, right, the law is not about the populace's lives and well-being, how silly of me to assume that.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    You didn't answer my questions. Do you think it would decrease the odds of reoffending if they didn't get bail? If it doesn't, then it's two crimes either way, just timed differently. And after the policy settled in it would have negligible impact on the crime rate. Also if you're doing sentencing for two crimes at once you can give a longer punishment for the first crime and get them off the street longer.
    - Joker_vD 4y ago
      Yes, it would decrease the odds, provided that after walking out of jail the probability of a criminal to commit a crime (that includes his intent to reoffend but also possible changes in the environment that happened during his time in jail that reduce his possibilities to do so) is less than before walking in, because they wouldn't get the chance to reoffend immediately.
      - Dylan16807 4y ago
        I don't assume that someone coming out of a sentence is less likely to commit a crime. Isn't it often the opposite, because the US is so bad at rehabilitation?
        Joker_vD 4y ago
        Then you should argue for "shoot at sight" or "lifetime sentences/electric chair for everything", shouldn't you? But no, the probability does decreases since not every ex-jailed becomes a repeated offender; also, some people die during the sentence... the probability does go down, for many small reasons compounded together.
        Dylan16807 4y ago
        > Then you should argue for "shoot at sight" or "lifetime sentences/electric chair for everything", shouldn't you? Not unless I'm a robot programmed to prevent recidivism at all costs. Why are you even asking this? > But no, the probability does decreases since not every ex-jailed becomes a repeated offender ...and not everyone released before their trial becomes a repeat offender. > some people die during the sentence Is that a significant effect? I don't think most sentences are long enough for that to make a big difference, and I don't think preventing a single crime per lifetime, at most, is enough reason to keep people locked up for the lengthy pre-trial process.
      - mattw2121 4y ago
        What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
        Joker_vD 4y ago
        I assume that the original comment was about how someone can get could pretty much red-handed for battery and assault/home violence but then instead of getting put into pre-trial/provisional detention (yes, you can get locked up even before being judged guilty, outrageous), they are just allowed to go because eh, why bother.
ketzu 4y ago
How significant is that problem? As far as I am aware * Not allowing bail for people at high risk of reoffending or flight is already allowed * Reoffending while waiting on trial or out on bail is rare On the other hand there seems to be a huge problem in the US of people being detained for long times without a trial.
- throwaway17_17 4y ago
  I could run the actual statistics for my district’s Court and tell you the percentage of reoffending while on bond, but in my experience a number approaching 40%, of people out on felony bonds, are re-arrested for additional felony conduct.
bombolo 4y ago
It's also a problem to put people in jail without a trial.

Dylan16807 4y ago

Why is it a problem? Do they get bail a second time? Do you think they wouldn't reoffend if they weren't released until after they are punished? If they do two crimes and get two sentences, does it matter if that's AABB or ABAB?

Joker_vD 4y ago
Well, because there are now e.g. two cases of murder instead of only one, and the second one was entirely preventable? Oh, right, the law is not about the populace's lives and well-being, how silly of me to assume that.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  You didn't answer my questions. Do you think it would decrease the odds of reoffending if they didn't get bail? If it doesn't, then it's two crimes either way, just timed differently. And after the policy settled in it would have negligible impact on the crime rate. Also if you're doing sentencing for two crimes at once you can give a longer punishment for the first crime and get them off the street longer.
  - Joker_vD 4y ago
    Yes, it would decrease the odds, provided that after walking out of jail the probability of a criminal to commit a crime (that includes his intent to reoffend but also possible changes in the environment that happened during his time in jail that reduce his possibilities to do so) is less than before walking in, because they wouldn't get the chance to reoffend immediately.
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      I don't assume that someone coming out of a sentence is less likely to commit a crime. Isn't it often the opposite, because the US is so bad at rehabilitation?
      - Joker_vD 4y ago
        Then you should argue for "shoot at sight" or "lifetime sentences/electric chair for everything", shouldn't you? But no, the probability does decreases since not every ex-jailed becomes a repeated offender; also, some people die during the sentence... the probability does go down, for many small reasons compounded together.
        Dylan16807 4y ago
        > Then you should argue for "shoot at sight" or "lifetime sentences/electric chair for everything", shouldn't you? Not unless I'm a robot programmed to prevent recidivism at all costs. Why are you even asking this? > But no, the probability does decreases since not every ex-jailed becomes a repeated offender ...and not everyone released before their trial becomes a repeat offender. > some people die during the sentence Is that a significant effect? I don't think most sentences are long enough for that to make a big difference, and I don't think preventing a single crime per lifetime, at most, is enough reason to keep people locked up for the lengthy pre-trial process.
    - mattw2121 4y ago
      What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
      - Joker_vD 4y ago
        I assume that the original comment was about how someone can get could pretty much red-handed for battery and assault/home violence but then instead of getting put into pre-trial/provisional detention (yes, you can get locked up even before being judged guilty, outrageous), they are just allowed to go because eh, why bother.

ketzu 4y ago

How significant is that problem? As far as I am aware * Not allowing bail for people at high risk of reoffending or flight is already allowed * Reoffending while waiting on trial or out on bail is rare On the other hand there seems to be a huge problem in the US of people being detained for long times without a trial.

throwaway17_17 4y ago
I could run the actual statistics for my district’s Court and tell you the percentage of reoffending while on bond, but in my experience a number approaching 40%, of people out on felony bonds, are re-arrested for additional felony conduct.

bombolo 4y ago

It's also a problem to put people in jail without a trial.