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> The opposition to these climatic manipulations is based on the fact that there are currently no international agreements that address or supervise solar geoen

> The opposition to these climatic manipulations is based on the fact that there are currently no international agreements that address or supervise solar geoengineering activities, which represent an economically advantageous way out for a minority and risky for the supposed remediation of climate change. > We agree that there are no alternative technologies that replace the need to reduce emissions to remediate climate change. Smells like dogma. Anyone know what’s going on?

remexre 4y ago
I think the logic is similar to why doctors aren't allowed to "just try stuff" on cancer patients without proper oversight, except on a global scale -- if it turns out a geoengineering project has a much worse second-order effect that wasn't considered, people who didn't get a say in its deployment would be impacted.
- dr_dshiv 4y ago
  But why not allow research?
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Make Sunsets isn't doing research, they are driving hype in order to sell "cooling credits" to everyday folks on the internet. Or why would you be able to pay for those "credits" using a credit card? This whole thing is more scam than anything else.
    - dr_dshiv 4y ago
      But isn’t research now banned in Mexico? I know of academic groups fighting to ban research in this area.
- concordDance 4y ago
  Which means that the techniques and treatments they would have discovered (and indeed, did discover back in the more wild days) aren't discovered and the amount of new treatment research each euro gets goes waaaay down.
perihelions 4y ago
It's a symptom of the Great Stagnation. There's a clear crisis with multiple plausible solutions, yet somehow all of humanity has made ~zero progress (on the geoengineering front) for decades. Never mind that the world's wealthier and more democratic than ever; or that information has never been more accessible to anyone who looks for it; or that technology and engineering are at their highest point in the history of civilization. We're paradoxically become less effectual than the era of the Manhattan Projects and Marshall Plans. We don't solve problems. - "The statement said, "The opposition to these climatic manipulations is based on the fact that there are currently no international agreements that address or supervise solar geoengineering activities..." And international diplomacy and world treaty bureaucracies, in turn, are paralyzed with indecision (or indifference). Insist on getting sign-offs from higher authorities, who you know in turn will do nothing. This is stuff straight out of the CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29597454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29597454
- wolverine876 4y ago
  It's a symptom of the US Republican Party. They are the only thing standing in the way. Don't take it for granted and give them an out; that's how they can keep doing it. Look at the aggressive obstruction - taking action against businesses (remember the party of the free market and business?) who do anything about climate change, even Microsoft for giving Xboxes a sleep mode. That's the problem. If you blame something else because you don't want to be 'partisan', you are diverting us from a solution.
  - schnitzelstoat 4y ago
    The US Republican Party runs Mexico?
  - kortilla 4y ago
    Because we all know how the US Republican Party is in control of China, India, Russia, and the whole European Union.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
throwawaylinux 4y ago
Preventing private organizations from unregulated experimentation in releasing chemicals into the atmosphere? I don't know what you're asking, but I suppose that would be considered dogma from the liberterian extremist perspective.
joe_the_user 4y ago
Dogma? The idea that the people of the earth should have a say in altering the earth? I'll accept that "dogma". The plan might be defended as just a pure research project maybe. But otherwise, government might not be the best representatives of the broad populations' view but they're better than one random startup.
quantum_magpie 4y ago
Because 'winging it' like this would be akin to doing your development on prod environment. And if by a complete accident one of these would make money for them (through gov bribery, carbon credit equivalent sales, vc investments, etc.), even if the initial one wouldn't poison everyone, a 100 more would immediately spring up and would poison everyone as long as they can make a cool billion before going to jail. That's why there has to be a sensible, globally agreed upon framework for global-scale geoengineering. And "the economy" is fighting to keep the climate change going to the last breath, because taking any tool from the chest (and we have an overflowing chest right now!) that is effective and working would 'hurt the economy'.
- AstralStorm 4y ago
  Make that 100 billion more. There are ways to develop this, much like trying to figure out meteor impacts by using railguns. Effective scale models of Earth ecosystems are darn hard though, as we found out in the handful of "biosphere" experiments. Expensive hardware required, lots of capital investment, easy to miss something and mess up. If NASA cannot do it, your rinky dink startup probably cannot even more so, though we still need to try. And NASA is also effectively underfunded plus has slightly different goals than terraforming Earth. We could use like half of the oil dig and weapons budget plus expert manpower to actually devise some actual quick and effective policy solutions to the hot mess grandpa and dad dealt us.
- moconnor 4y ago
  If pumping SO2 into the atmosphere becomes profitable via cooling offsets, we might struggle to get people to stop doing it. Industrial scale CO2 and SO2 production might be how you get to Venus.

remexre 4y ago

I think the logic is similar to why doctors aren't allowed to "just try stuff" on cancer patients without proper oversight, except on a global scale -- if it turns out a geoengineering project has a much worse second-order effect that wasn't considered, people who didn't get a say in its deployment would be impacted.

dr_dshiv 4y ago
But why not allow research?
- hef19898 4y ago
  Make Sunsets isn't doing research, they are driving hype in order to sell "cooling credits" to everyday folks on the internet. Or why would you be able to pay for those "credits" using a credit card? This whole thing is more scam than anything else.
  - dr_dshiv 4y ago
    But isn’t research now banned in Mexico? I know of academic groups fighting to ban research in this area.
concordDance 4y ago
Which means that the techniques and treatments they would have discovered (and indeed, did discover back in the more wild days) aren't discovered and the amount of new treatment research each euro gets goes waaaay down.

perihelions 4y ago

It's a symptom of the Great Stagnation. There's a clear crisis with multiple plausible solutions, yet somehow all of humanity has made ~zero progress (on the geoengineering front) for decades. Never mind that the world's wealthier and more democratic than ever; or that information has never been more accessible to anyone who looks for it; or that technology and engineering are at their highest point in the history of civilization. We're paradoxically become less effectual than the era of the Manhattan Projects and Marshall Plans. We don't solve problems. - "The statement said, "The opposition to these climatic manipulations is based on the fact that there are currently no international agreements that address or supervise solar geoengineering activities..." And international diplomacy and world treaty bureaucracies, in turn, are paralyzed with indecision (or indifference). Insist on getting sign-offs from higher authorities, who you know in turn will do nothing. This is stuff straight out of the CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29597454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29597454

wolverine876 4y ago
It's a symptom of the US Republican Party. They are the only thing standing in the way. Don't take it for granted and give them an out; that's how they can keep doing it. Look at the aggressive obstruction - taking action against businesses (remember the party of the free market and business?) who do anything about climate change, even Microsoft for giving Xboxes a sleep mode. That's the problem. If you blame something else because you don't want to be 'partisan', you are diverting us from a solution.
- schnitzelstoat 4y ago
  The US Republican Party runs Mexico?
- kortilla 4y ago
  Because we all know how the US Republican Party is in control of China, India, Russia, and the whole European Union.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

throwawaylinux 4y ago

Preventing private organizations from unregulated experimentation in releasing chemicals into the atmosphere? I don't know what you're asking, but I suppose that would be considered dogma from the liberterian extremist perspective.

joe_the_user 4y ago

Dogma? The idea that the people of the earth should have a say in altering the earth? I'll accept that "dogma". The plan might be defended as just a pure research project maybe. But otherwise, government might not be the best representatives of the broad populations' view but they're better than one random startup.

quantum_magpie 4y ago

Because 'winging it' like this would be akin to doing your development on prod environment. And if by a complete accident one of these would make money for them (through gov bribery, carbon credit equivalent sales, vc investments, etc.), even if the initial one wouldn't poison everyone, a 100 more would immediately spring up and would poison everyone as long as they can make a cool billion before going to jail. That's why there has to be a sensible, globally agreed upon framework for global-scale geoengineering. And "the economy" is fighting to keep the climate change going to the last breath, because taking any tool from the chest (and we have an overflowing chest right now!) that is effective and working would 'hurt the economy'.

AstralStorm 4y ago
Make that 100 billion more. There are ways to develop this, much like trying to figure out meteor impacts by using railguns. Effective scale models of Earth ecosystems are darn hard though, as we found out in the handful of "biosphere" experiments. Expensive hardware required, lots of capital investment, easy to miss something and mess up. If NASA cannot do it, your rinky dink startup probably cannot even more so, though we still need to try. And NASA is also effectively underfunded plus has slightly different goals than terraforming Earth. We could use like half of the oil dig and weapons budget plus expert manpower to actually devise some actual quick and effective policy solutions to the hot mess grandpa and dad dealt us.
moconnor 4y ago
If pumping SO2 into the atmosphere becomes profitable via cooling offsets, we might struggle to get people to stop doing it. Industrial scale CO2 and SO2 production might be how you get to Venus.