5 ms·

Landscape is an Urbit-native toolkit for staying connected with your friends

45 points by lxm 4y ago

rohan_ 4y ago
If Tlon was serious about Urbit they would swap out Hoon with something more practical.
- aliqot 4y ago
  It's weird how some things were intentionally made different just to be that way, like the binary true/false is reversed. Yarvin said he did it to be different and because it was funny.
  - actionfromafar 4y ago
    All cults operate in a similar way. It's important to have a very distinct in-group with codes only fully understood internally.
    - aliqot 4y ago
      shaved-head earthtones guy with the cult eyes in their youtube videos does them no favors. First thing I said when watching one of their conference talks "oh shit did i just wander into a cult" edit: this guy https://youtu.be/g1qroWiZF90 https://youtu.be/g1qroWiZF90
      - gonehome 4y ago
        For what's it's worth, it's a little tongue-in-cheek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXSDaLkxA9o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXSDaLkxA9o Trying to do something new like this is hard.
      - masklinn 4y ago
        > shaved-head earthtones guy with the cult eyes in their youtube videos does them no favors. Doesn’t it? It’s the same as scams, selecting against people who recognise cults is a feature, it means you don’t have to weed those out. Means your recruitment process is that much more efficient.
  - Lammy 4y ago
    There are plenty of things worth criticizing in Urbit, IMO mostly related to the recreation of real-world scarcity as a digital namespace. Nobody seems to mind this very much in POSIX: [Lammy#~] true && echo $? 0
    - gonehome 4y ago
      Yeah, I’ve always found this complaint weird. It’s like that in Unix and 0 being true (or default) while 1 is error also feels more intuitive to me.
dmitriid 4y ago
It amuses me to no end that all these "innovative collaborative tools" are rigidly locked in to Slack's way of displaying information.
- api 4y ago
  Slack just copied IRC clients.
  - ElfinTrousers 4y ago
    As a co-worker of mine put it some years back, "I was not expecting this year's big growth sector to be fancy IRC."
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    Slack had an "innovation" in the form of unusable threads that every other client is now sheepishly copying.
    - api 4y ago
      The big innovation over IRC was persistent chat across devices. That was huge and is pretty much a must have now.
      - aliqot 4y ago
        irccloud had that first, and before that znc, before that we had these byzantine bitchx setups, but it's nothing new from concept to implementation, I'd say
        api 4y ago
        I didn’t say it was new, just that it delivered that in a simple way. I can get someone on Slack in 5 minutes or less.
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        I personally think that Slack was a huge improvement over IRC UX-wise. Especially for "normal" people: persistent chat across devices, search, inline previews of images, videos, urls etc. On the UI side however it looks like we're stuck again, with everyone just copy-pasting whatever the leader of tge pack does.
jonstewart 4y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ElfinTrousers 4y ago
  [flagged]
mlatu 4y ago
urbit is strongly hierarchic... politically i would compare it to signal if signal wasnt just a messenger... but i did say politically so there we go: "we cannot allow federation, because the dictator says so"-signal is similar to "all your ships are belong to someone"-urbit i doubt much has changed in the last 10years. But from the purely technological angle: this is interesting and we should emulate this, but free and open.
- gonehome 4y ago
  It is open source, the hierarchy is the minimal necessary to solve the reasons federated systems fail and centralize (spam, public key lookup for p2p encryption, version updates across the system, difficulty of running a linux server). I work at Tlon so I'm biased, but I joined because I think urbit is the best way to get ourselves out of the local max of computing we're trapped in. Email is a failure as a federated system (people on a tiny amount of centralized providers), the promise of the web as a decentralized place for people to interact p2p failed (FB, Instagram, etc.). We're serfs operating accounts that manipulate our attention so that we view more ads on massively centralized systems controlled by companies that have their own incentives. Urbit is an escape of that. You can't fix these issues without fixing the problems earlier up in the computing stack, federated systems on the existing stack are doomed to always be relegated to a tiny hyper-technical niche. Urbit's design means it's possible to get the UX such that everyone could use it (likely most by a provider running the urbit for them). Federated systems don't even really solve these problems for most users unless you run your own server (an even smaller subset) - you're just trading one dictator for another (and likely it's worse given how subreddit mods behave - mastodon is a good example of this). https://zalberico.com/essay/2022/09/28/tlon-urbit-computing-freedom.html https://zalberico.com/essay/2022/09/28/tlon-urbit-computing-... http://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/urbit-functional-programming-from.html http://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/urbit-functional-progra...
  - mlatu 4y ago
    im not sure how subreddit mods play into "federated systems". so thats that. Except on grounds of "the hierarchy is the minimal necessary to solve the reasons federated systems fail and centralize", you and me seem completely aligned (at least concerning this reply) But otherwise, i agree. Though i would like to remark that "the web", actually "the whole computing world", started as a hyper-technical niche.
mursicale 4y ago
Never ceases to amaze me that every time urbit comes up here all you guys can come up with is "it's racist" and "hoon is weird". There are valid criticisms to make, but these ain't it.
- routerl 4y ago
  How's this one: I'm a competent, experienced, professional software engineer, who is utterly and completely incapable of grasping what and why urbit is, without seemingly investing far more time and cognitive capital than I'm willing to invest on something so nebulous. From my perspective, urbit is quicksand: crypto wasn't this bad, NFT's weren't this bad; I was able to grasp the basics quickly and invest time into solving my confusions to my own satisfaction, without ever feeling like I was more drawn in than necessary (i.e. didn't over-invest, got out early). To me, urbit is nothing more than a sign, just beyond a blackhole's event horizon, which says "come closer". No thanks. I'm happy to stick to the fundamentals that have served me so well in my life and career.
  - forgotpwd16 4y ago
    ChatGPT made a nice summary. > Provide me information on Urbit. Urbit is a decentralized, functional operating system and network, which aims to provide a secure and private computing environment for users. It is designed to be a platform for a new decentralized internet, and it uses a unique architecture that combines elements of functional programming, peer-to-peer networking, and blockchain technology. Urbit is still in development and not widely adopted yet, but it's a project with a new approach to computing and network, that aims to provide a more secure, private, and decentralized environment for users. The goal of Urbit is to provide an alternative to centralized systems, where users have more control over their data and devices, and where the network is more resilient to censorship, surveillance, and data breaches. Answers, albeit very generic, the what and why.
    - nineteen999 4y ago
      As usual, ChatGPT is summarizing and regurgitating the (m|d)isinformation that's already out there. It doesn't matter how many Tlon employees and Urbit fans protest otherwise, that what is inaccurate. Urbit is not an "operating system". Here's the download page, where you can download Urbit for Linux, Urbit for MacOS, Urbit for Windows etc: https://urbit.org/getting-started/cli https://urbit.org/getting-started/cli It's an application. It's not an "operating system". You need an operating system to run it. It's also not a "personal server operating function" or "new kind of computer" as described elsewhere in the literature. It's a freaking web app. I love that the CLI installation instructions describe themselves as "Installation instructions for power users". On the home page "All the smart people I know disappear into Urbit." This is toy software, backed by a 100% transparent ponzi scheme, appealing to the most gullible out there who desperately want to be accepted by a "smart" minority group. The network is more resilient to censorship, surveillance, and data breaches? Puhlease. The CLI example page shows you how to set up a basic Urbit instance which is accessed via ... unencrypted HTTP.
freen 4y ago
Yarvin and his work is forever tainted with his Mencius Moldbug nrx/dark enlightenment nonsense. Unless you are cool with absolute monarchism and the divine right of kings, avoid giving him and his work any oxygen.

45 points by lxm 4y ago

rohan_ 4y ago

If Tlon was serious about Urbit they would swap out Hoon with something more practical.

aliqot 4y ago
It's weird how some things were intentionally made different just to be that way, like the binary true/false is reversed. Yarvin said he did it to be different and because it was funny.
- actionfromafar 4y ago
  All cults operate in a similar way. It's important to have a very distinct in-group with codes only fully understood internally.
  - aliqot 4y ago
    shaved-head earthtones guy with the cult eyes in their youtube videos does them no favors. First thing I said when watching one of their conference talks "oh shit did i just wander into a cult" edit: this guy https://youtu.be/g1qroWiZF90 https://youtu.be/g1qroWiZF90
    - gonehome 4y ago
      For what's it's worth, it's a little tongue-in-cheek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXSDaLkxA9o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXSDaLkxA9o Trying to do something new like this is hard.
    - masklinn 4y ago
      > shaved-head earthtones guy with the cult eyes in their youtube videos does them no favors. Doesn’t it? It’s the same as scams, selecting against people who recognise cults is a feature, it means you don’t have to weed those out. Means your recruitment process is that much more efficient.
- Lammy 4y ago
  There are plenty of things worth criticizing in Urbit, IMO mostly related to the recreation of real-world scarcity as a digital namespace. Nobody seems to mind this very much in POSIX: [Lammy#~] true && echo $? 0
  - gonehome 4y ago
    Yeah, I’ve always found this complaint weird. It’s like that in Unix and 0 being true (or default) while 1 is error also feels more intuitive to me.

dmitriid 4y ago

It amuses me to no end that all these "innovative collaborative tools" are rigidly locked in to Slack's way of displaying information.

api 4y ago
Slack just copied IRC clients.
- ElfinTrousers 4y ago
  As a co-worker of mine put it some years back, "I was not expecting this year's big growth sector to be fancy IRC."
- dmitriid 4y ago
  Slack had an "innovation" in the form of unusable threads that every other client is now sheepishly copying.
  - api 4y ago
    The big innovation over IRC was persistent chat across devices. That was huge and is pretty much a must have now.
    - aliqot 4y ago
      irccloud had that first, and before that znc, before that we had these byzantine bitchx setups, but it's nothing new from concept to implementation, I'd say
      - api 4y ago
        I didn’t say it was new, just that it delivered that in a simple way. I can get someone on Slack in 5 minutes or less.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      I personally think that Slack was a huge improvement over IRC UX-wise. Especially for "normal" people: persistent chat across devices, search, inline previews of images, videos, urls etc. On the UI side however it looks like we're stuck again, with everyone just copy-pasting whatever the leader of tge pack does.

jonstewart 4y ago

[flagged]

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ElfinTrousers 4y ago
[flagged]

mlatu 4y ago

urbit is strongly hierarchic... politically i would compare it to signal if signal wasnt just a messenger... but i did say politically so there we go: "we cannot allow federation, because the dictator says so"-signal is similar to "all your ships are belong to someone"-urbit i doubt much has changed in the last 10years. But from the purely technological angle: this is interesting and we should emulate this, but free and open.

gonehome 4y ago
It is open source, the hierarchy is the minimal necessary to solve the reasons federated systems fail and centralize (spam, public key lookup for p2p encryption, version updates across the system, difficulty of running a linux server). I work at Tlon so I'm biased, but I joined because I think urbit is the best way to get ourselves out of the local max of computing we're trapped in. Email is a failure as a federated system (people on a tiny amount of centralized providers), the promise of the web as a decentralized place for people to interact p2p failed (FB, Instagram, etc.). We're serfs operating accounts that manipulate our attention so that we view more ads on massively centralized systems controlled by companies that have their own incentives. Urbit is an escape of that. You can't fix these issues without fixing the problems earlier up in the computing stack, federated systems on the existing stack are doomed to always be relegated to a tiny hyper-technical niche. Urbit's design means it's possible to get the UX such that everyone could use it (likely most by a provider running the urbit for them). Federated systems don't even really solve these problems for most users unless you run your own server (an even smaller subset) - you're just trading one dictator for another (and likely it's worse given how subreddit mods behave - mastodon is a good example of this). https://zalberico.com/essay/2022/09/28/tlon-urbit-computing-freedom.html https://zalberico.com/essay/2022/09/28/tlon-urbit-computing-... http://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/urbit-functional-programming-from.html http://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/urbit-functional-progra...
- mlatu 4y ago
  im not sure how subreddit mods play into "federated systems". so thats that. Except on grounds of "the hierarchy is the minimal necessary to solve the reasons federated systems fail and centralize", you and me seem completely aligned (at least concerning this reply) But otherwise, i agree. Though i would like to remark that "the web", actually "the whole computing world", started as a hyper-technical niche.

mursicale 4y ago

Never ceases to amaze me that every time urbit comes up here all you guys can come up with is "it's racist" and "hoon is weird". There are valid criticisms to make, but these ain't it.

routerl 4y ago
How's this one: I'm a competent, experienced, professional software engineer, who is utterly and completely incapable of grasping what and why urbit is, without seemingly investing far more time and cognitive capital than I'm willing to invest on something so nebulous. From my perspective, urbit is quicksand: crypto wasn't this bad, NFT's weren't this bad; I was able to grasp the basics quickly and invest time into solving my confusions to my own satisfaction, without ever feeling like I was more drawn in than necessary (i.e. didn't over-invest, got out early). To me, urbit is nothing more than a sign, just beyond a blackhole's event horizon, which says "come closer". No thanks. I'm happy to stick to the fundamentals that have served me so well in my life and career.
- forgotpwd16 4y ago
  ChatGPT made a nice summary. > Provide me information on Urbit. Urbit is a decentralized, functional operating system and network, which aims to provide a secure and private computing environment for users. It is designed to be a platform for a new decentralized internet, and it uses a unique architecture that combines elements of functional programming, peer-to-peer networking, and blockchain technology. Urbit is still in development and not widely adopted yet, but it's a project with a new approach to computing and network, that aims to provide a more secure, private, and decentralized environment for users. The goal of Urbit is to provide an alternative to centralized systems, where users have more control over their data and devices, and where the network is more resilient to censorship, surveillance, and data breaches. Answers, albeit very generic, the what and why.
  - nineteen999 4y ago
    As usual, ChatGPT is summarizing and regurgitating the (m|d)isinformation that's already out there. It doesn't matter how many Tlon employees and Urbit fans protest otherwise, that what is inaccurate. Urbit is not an "operating system". Here's the download page, where you can download Urbit for Linux, Urbit for MacOS, Urbit for Windows etc: https://urbit.org/getting-started/cli https://urbit.org/getting-started/cli It's an application. It's not an "operating system". You need an operating system to run it. It's also not a "personal server operating function" or "new kind of computer" as described elsewhere in the literature. It's a freaking web app. I love that the CLI installation instructions describe themselves as "Installation instructions for power users". On the home page "All the smart people I know disappear into Urbit." This is toy software, backed by a 100% transparent ponzi scheme, appealing to the most gullible out there who desperately want to be accepted by a "smart" minority group. The network is more resilient to censorship, surveillance, and data breaches? Puhlease. The CLI example page shows you how to set up a basic Urbit instance which is accessed via ... unencrypted HTTP.

freen 4y ago

Yarvin and his work is forever tainted with his Mencius Moldbug nrx/dark enlightenment nonsense. Unless you are cool with absolute monarchism and the divine right of kings, avoid giving him and his work any oxygen.