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> That’s right: if you host your show with Apple, the only listeners you can have are folks with the Apple Podcasts app. This feels like an absolutely wild choi
by tomxor 4y ago
> That’s right: if you host your show with Apple, the only listeners you can have are folks with the Apple Podcasts app. This feels like an absolutely wild choice from a product perspective; it’s the mindset of a company who still thinks that they have dominance over the podcasting world. It’s ludicrous to assume that it’s a good thing for listeners to have to have specific hardware in order to listen to a podcast.
I'm gona keep shouting this from the rooftops and maybe it will eventually sink in for some people:
Apple's end game is vertical integration, it's "lock-in" on steroids. When they own every product or service in the stack, they can tune one product (like podcasts) to serve the purposes of another, even when it appears to hurt a product and it's users individually, because it benefits Apple as a whole.
I get that Apple stuff is generally a nice experience and there is genuinely lots of cool technology, but people need to understand the future they are buying into with Apple. The deeper someone gets, the more painful it's going to be when that table flip moment comes, because that table has the weight of the whole Apple ecosystem holding it down - and so people will unconsciously endure much pain before doing so (lest they lose access to their podcasts); If that table flip moment comes with a competitor for an _individual_ service like this one, it's going to be a tiny inconvenience, and so users will endure less, and the product owner has more market pressure to provide a good service as the friction to change is low.
Those passionate about Apple will argue with individual counter examples, but the core issue is the broader strategy that does not have user interests at heart. It's honestly heartbreaking as someone who grew up with and loved Apple computers, they hung onto the concept of holism from the 80s in making the whole computer and it has produced some excellent machines. But now the same strategy is being twisted into something that actively works against the user instead.
- sneak 4y agoTo wit: you can't use the new hardware 2FA passkeys on iOS unless you opt in to iCloud and all of the surveillance that entails.
- TylerE 4y agoWhy is that surprising since the keys are specifically for logging into iCloud? Do you complaine your gasoline car doesn’t have a diesel tank?
- sneak 4y agoPasskeys are Apple's branding for using a iOS device as a WebAuthn authenticator, and it is for logging into everything on the web that supports WebAuthn. You can't use it unless you are using iCloud Keychain. I'm not talking about security key support for iCloud logins. Passkeys(tm) != security keys
- KyeRussell 4y agoIt doesn’t sound like you know what this new feature actually does.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- howinteresting 4y agoI was fully in the Apple ecosystem several years ago. I came to the realization you talk about some time in 2019 or so—very glad I got myself out of it.
- m463 4y agoI think the best time was around 2007 - that was when apple switched from PPC to intel. All of a sudden their ecosystem opened up. You could run windows on your solid apple hardware. People had more choices and agency.
- mattbrewsbytes 4y agoBeyond hardware integrations between their own HW, their software/services are odd and don't interoperate with conventional things. I used iphoto or whatever it was called and it had proprietary storage which was a huge turn off for me. Its never clear if a point of sale terminal accepts Apple Pay and where to hold your device so I avoid using it since chances are I have to get out a card anyway. Their podcast app has a concept of "play next" or "play last" and I went looking for a playlist thinking that was a thing where I could re-arrange a list, couldn't find that, maybe its there somewhere? Kinda same with "saved" or "downloaded" I was able to figure these out in Spotify's app. It feels like Apple's app UI always has extra clicks involved or its like key features are buried. Maybe its me and how my brain is wired from many years of Windows? The UI's are consistently odd.
- KyeRussell 4y agoYou including your Apple Pay gripe in that list is a misattributed laughable Americanism instead of the jab at Apple that you intend it to be.
- ted_bunny 4y agoWhy's that?
- hot_gril 4y agoSomething about the shitty metric system I'll bet
- neilparikh 4y agoI'm guessing their point was that in many other countries (ex. Canada), tap to pay is pretty much universally supported for many years, to the point where I'm surprised when a merchant doesn't have it. The majority of my transactions in Canada were tap to pay as far back as 2018. It's also worth noting that Apple Pay isn't its own protocol, it just does the same thing as the tap to pay built into cards, so not at all within Apple's control how much it's supported or how the terminal works.
- wwweston 4y agoThis is exactly why when I picked a file-sync/storage service I have never once considered iCloud (or OneDrive for that matter) and never will. And in general I've stopped adopting Apple-originated software entirely, weaned myself off of most of that which I had adopted, and have largely rid myself of anything macOS-only even from 3rd parties. iOS is what I'm taking an inventory of next. I may continue to buy Apple hardware. They've shown up here well enough that I can ignore minor misgivings about cost and upgradability/repairability/recovery. But the software ecosystem just seems like a gilded cage in the best case, and that's ignoring the signals that this is company that trades in digital experiences & economics rather than the old-fashioned bicycles for the mind. We're well beyond the "PCs are trucks" thing and into "we sell the experience of owning a new sedan every 2 years."
- tomxor 4y ago> the signals that this is company that trades in digital experiences & economics rather than the old-fashioned bicycles for the mind Just to screw with their old marketing: The bicycle is now trying to drive the mind - you want to go left but it keeps gradually, imperceptibly, steering you right - for some people as soon as they feel that force feedback through the handlebars it causes an autonomic response, recoiling in fear as the tool they previously trusted seems to have a mind of it's own... Some other hidden force in the machine is competing with your decisions. Yet the majority of people don't seem to have this response, perhaps it's earned, I don't know.
- m3kw9 4y agoIt ain’t 1s or 0s with vertical integration, right now and in the near future it works well and still not restrictive at all on most things. All I can say is that the quality and experience of using apple products has been worth it. You are free to hedge your bets by using both apple and google but that would be a bad experience
- tomxor 4y agoTrue, and it will never be 100% because society and governments have their own way of pushing back eventually. But as I said, the issue is in the broader strategy, a trend has been emerging for some time now. The cost benefit is subjective so people have different tolerances - but some, like me, exited a number of stops back when they saw the track ahead. I'm only here to suggest others might want to pop their head out the window and decide for themselves.
- scarface74 4y ago> Apple's end game is vertical integration, it's "lock-in" on steroids. When they own every product or service in the stack, they can tune one product (like podcasts) to serve the purposes of another, even when it appears to hurt a product and it's users individually, because it benefits Apple as a whole. This is demonstrable not true. From the time that iTunes first introduced podcast support in iTunes back in 2004 until today, you host your RSS feed on your own site and iTunes indexes your RSS feed. But you still host your own audio that gets served off of your own site. Not only that, Apple has had a public documented API that doesn’t need any keys that you can use to basically get any information from the index since 2006. Third party podcast apps use the API. If your podcast isn’t listed on iTunes, you can still subscribe to the RSS feed of the podcast directly if you know the url. If you publish a URL on your website, by default it will open in the podcast app. This is much different than the podcast in name only monstrosity that Spotify has On the other hand, the Apple podcast app has always sucked and I use Overcast. Yes you can pretty easily have paid podcasts outside of Apple . To the first approximation, no one is dumb enough to use Apple’s paid podcast offering and uses a third party one or roll their own with dedicated urls because they realize the number of third party clients available and they have no relationship with the customer.
- bob_theslob646 4y agoThis is a great answer/ great reply to the thread. Thank you for sharing
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago> I get that Apple stuff is generally a nice experience and there is genuinely lots of cool technology, but people need to understand the future they are buying into with Apple. Can't speak for all Apple users, but the way a lot of my friends talk about their phones - it is crystal clear they think they're better than you if you don't have an iPhone. I imagine this subset of users would be glad that people without iPhones can't listen to podcasts. I think they're aware of what they're buying into and like it.
- MBCook 4y agoAs someone who loves Apple stuff: what kind of people are you hanging out with? I’ve never heard an adult I interact with express that. My Android using friends don’t care.
- hot_gril 4y agoThere are people who get iPhones just for iMessage. They don't want to be the one person who puts the entire group chat into "green bubble" mode. People accuse Apple of doing this intentionally, but you know, it's not their fault SMS is terrible; even Android users tend to use WhatsApp or something for group chats.
- MBCook 4y agoSo I totally understand that. But does that rise to the level of “I’m a better person than you”? I guess I haven’t heard it put that way.
- hot_gril 4y agoI know it was a thing in middle school, and I'll bet some people never grew out of it. I've never heard an adult directly say that having an iPhone makes you better, but I have seen groups exclude people based essentially on income, and none of those people would be caught holding an Android phone. It's dumb, I hate smartphones.
- 4y ago
- MBCook 4y agoApple has controlled the podcast industry through the iTunes podcast directory since day one. They’ve been benevolent and haven’t cracked down on things. They let basically any podcast in for free. They let 3rd party clients use their directory for free. They ARE the podcast industry. And they’ve been open. I see this purely as a reaction to Spotify and Google and others trying to grab and control the industry with private “podcasts” that can only be listened to in their custom app. They’re trying not to be shoved out. And they’re big enough to be able to hold it. It would be great if 3rd party apps on iOS could access your podcast subscriptions. But this is way better to me than standing by and letting Spotify or whoever destroy the industry. (I subscribe to podcasts, but not through Apple since I can’t use my preferred app, Overcast).
- howinteresting 4y agoThis is the same set of excuses trotted out for why you can't use Firefox's Gecko engine with uBlock Origin on iOS.
- MBCook 4y agoNot exactly. Apple has been basically been providing a public service with their free podcast directory since 2012. There is nothing comparable in the case of the Safari on iOS situation.
- bryanrasmussen 4y ago>Apple has been basically been providing a public service with their free podcast directory since 2012. that benefited them?
- Nullabillity 4y agoSo the charitable interpretation is that they're trying to compete with Spotify's walled garden, by... doing the same thing themselves? This also doesn't help them compete with Spotify anyway, since they use their own directory and hosting system. The only ones hurt here are third-party clients and end users. The ones you think they're trying to "protect".
- hot_gril 4y agoI don't use enough tech stuff to care. I have an iPhone and a Mac, and they go together in a few ways like iMessage, but that's not the reason I have both. They're just good products. I would swap one of them out if I didn't like it. The deeper integrations are just toys; why would I even remotely need a Homepod or an Apple Watch? Why would I use the crappy News app on my Mac instead of a web browser? The scarier thing they have is other users' loyalty on phones. Android has the same. I feel like nobody switches between the two anymore like the older days, and there was a distinct time when they switched from making what the user might want to deciding what the user wants. So both players do anti-consumer stuff in lock-step like removing headphone jacks to sell more accessories. I don't mind holding onto an old phone to avoid that, but there's a limit. AT&T stopped serving my iPhone 5.
- ouid 4y agoWhat you are noticing is that competition is literally the worst strategy that corporations can adopt with respect to each other. Apple and Samsung probably have the keys to each other's destruction, but destroying the other would be bad because the remaining party would become a "monopoly" which is a loss condition, So the destruction is mutually assured, and intrinsic cooperation is possible. There's more money to be made cooperating, so the result is we lose the headphone jack.
- hot_gril 4y agoI figured the same, but I'm still a little surprised because there are so many major Android phonemakers who should be competing. It's Samsung, LG, Google (Pixel), etc. Though the software is a duopoly of course.
- steve1977 4y agoDestroying the other company would primarily be bad because Apple is a good customer of Samsung ;)
- asiachick 4y agosomeone will turn this into politics at some point. Someone will promote that reds use Android and Windows PCs, blues use iPhone and Macs. Then you'll need to fall in line or get cancelled. not looking forward to it.
- CatWChainsaw 4y agoThe future is silos.
- willi59549879 4y agoI hope not.
- ouid 4y agoI imagine most people believe that legislation will step in in the case that it becomes too uncomfortable for them, as consumers. It turns out that if you put a from in water and raise the termperature slowly, they jump out exactly when they can no longer maintain homeostasis. Not everything can be manipulated by making change slow enough. Sometimes there are bifurcations.
- gls2ro 4y agoI agree that having everything on Apple Podcasts may put more power into Apple and hurt smaller businesses/projects. But I also totally dislike what is happening now with movie streaming I pay for a couple of platforms, and if I want to watch something, I start opening them one by one and search of that movie. Moreso when a tv series that I started watching on one platform suddenly migrates to another one so I have to follow it between platforms. I start seeing that with podcasts: some of them launched only on other platforms and now I have to install 4-5 podcast apps on my phone and keep track of all of them when something new appears. From an Apple user perspective, I like that I have on app Podcasts where I go and can listen to the latest episode from my favorite podcasts.
- willi59549879 4y agoI don't like the recent development either. With shows it is even worse for podcasts you can usually get an RSS feed that can be used by many apps
- autoexec 4y ago> I agree that having everything on Apple Podcasts may put more power into Apple But I also totally dislike what is happening now with [streaming]...I start seeing that with podcasts: some of them launched only on other platforms and now I have to install 4-5 podcast apps on my phone and keep track of all of them when something new appears You hate it when you have to use different/specific apps to get access to certain content. Apple is making it so that a bunch of people will be forced to use apple's app to get certain podcasts. It sounds like apple is making the problem you dislike worse for many people, but since it isn't impacting you personally as an apple user you don't mind it?
- BlueTemplar 4y agoExcept that you were warned about this, but you still chose to use platforms, hence becoming part of the problem yourself.
- philliphaydon 4y ago> but people need to understand the future they are buying into with Apple When Google or MS or someone else builds a better experience then we can move. Google shuts things down like there’s no tomorrow. MS can’t release a product beyond 3 countries. No one makes headphones like Apple. You can argue till you’re blue in the face that all the sound quality of every other brand is better. But I’m so tired of having to re-pair headphones on every device. Can argue that android phones a better cos of this feature and that feature but the moment you install some apps the battery drains, there’s less consistency, apps want my credit card directly. I’ve been spending years pushing back against Apple for being overpriced but the overall experience is just better.
- maven29 4y agoI realize that it was just an example but newer bluetooth TWS chipsets can do multi-point pairing just fine. Also, Google's Fast Pair API is currently being expanded beyond just pairing headphones. They aim for more than just surface-level UX. I doubt apps can stay on the playstore after asking for card details in a form. Google wants their cut too
- philliphaydon 4y ago> newer bluetooth TWS chipsets can do multi-point pairing just fine. This is great news!
- swyx 4y agoboth Apple and Spotify are dead set on ruining podcasting. look at their podcast sites. they dont believe in RSS, they don't believe in MP3. screw them for ignoring the roots of this movement and trying to build walled gardens around other people's content.
- gymbeaux 4y agoMy iPhone 12 Mini had gotten slow and the battery life was becoming mediocre (after only 2 years), so I spent the last couple of months looking at phones. I use Linux primarily, so I was looking at Android phones because of course iPhones don’t talk to Linux or Windows computers. Unfortunately I ended up with an iPhone 14 because without an iPhone: - I can’t use (or update) my Apple Watch - I can’t use/track my AirTags - I can’t use most of the features of my AirPods Pros - I can’t use FaceTime or iMessage with 95% of the people I talk to who also have iPhones - I can’t utilize the free Apple Arcade subscription I get through Verizon (not a big deal obviously but this is why Verizon and Apple have this deal- to sell iPhones). I’m getting rid of my MacBook because macOS is going down the shitter (another topic entirely). On a related note, I needed a second Mac in order to restore my MacBook, that is, remove the beta version of macOS Ventura I was running awhile ago to go back to a stable (“stable”) version. So yeah, the game is to get everyone to have to buy iPhones every couple of years whether there are any significant improvements or not. What can the iPhone 14 do that the iPhone 12 can’t? Absolutely fucking nothing.
- mgraupner 4y agoThe iPhone 12 mini has an A14 and the iPhone 14 an A15 processor. Geekbench single core performance is 7% better in the newer one. I doubt you're "feeling" the difference in speed between these two phones. The battery life in the 12 mini was not considered good from the start, so it's understandable, that after two years the battery is in not so good shape anymore.