4 ms·

Does that really happen for 3x 20sec max effort on a stationary bike?

scott_w 4y ago
No, this is a common theme I see. People who know nothing about exercise take real medical things that happen to people who massively overtrain and assume it can happen to a regular unfit person exercising for 10 minutes a day. For the 3x20s intervals, the max effort of a person is far, far, below the max effort that, say, I can put out (as a trained cyclist). I strongly doubt the people doing this were actually pushing the 500W for 20s that I saw bandied in another thread. They're more likely pushing 200W and tickling 300W for a few seconds. This is still a high perceived exertion (though lower absolute kcal expenditure), so it's a good effort on their part. But they're unlikely to black out or cause major muscle injuries beyond feeling a bit sore in the morning.
- matsemann 4y ago
  The rabdo I'm talking about doesn't just happen to people that overtrain on a regular basis. It happens often to beginners doing their first workout at a gym being pushed to hard. But I agree, for 1 minute total effort it's probably not a risk. My comment was more in the general sense of giving untrained people high intensity workouts, especially in a group context where they take it too far (like crossfit).
  - matwood 4y ago
    > often Citation needed. Which is the point of the person you're responding to. For an untrained person to even get to what is considered 'high' intensity in their first workout is not common. I do all sorts of training with trained and new people alike and have never seen rhabdo in person. I know it can happen, but I think the stories stick out because it's so uncommon.
    - matsemann 4y ago
      > Citation needed. But no citation needed from your personal experience of never seeing it..? I think you're reading waaaay too much into what I'm saying.
      - matwood 4y ago
        Yeah. If you're saying 'often' then people who work out and/or train people a lot should have a decent likelihood of seeing it. I know it happens because I've read articles of it happening. But the way people bring it up any time a fitness discussion occurs is a meme at this point.
        matsemann 4y ago
        My point was that it happens more with beginners, so an experienced not seeing it often is expected.. Btw here is a local source. Three people got it from a group session. The doctor in the article says it happens about 400 times a year in little Norway, and that the group most often affected is people that used to be fit many years ago, and then start off too hard. https://www.nrk.no/nordland/innlagt-pa-nordlandssykehuset-med-rabdomyolyse-etter-trening-1.15364712 https://www.nrk.no/nordland/innlagt-pa-nordlandssykehuset-me...
        scott_w 4y ago
        This is a common case I see of misusing statistics without really understanding what's happening. I can't read Norwegian but I'll take a stab at what's happened here (based on my knowledge of other articles and having 20 years of personal experience of fitness training). - This wasn't one group session but repeated sessions of HIIT back to back (maybe even daily). - There wasn't sufficient rest between sessions. - Some of these were older (50+) patients. The most important part is the repeated sessions. Doing a single session of HIIT pull-ups or sprint intervals on the bike aren't going to cause major muscle damage, even in an untrained person. Doing 5 days back-to-back, repeatedly going beyond failure (something Crossfit is notorious for), with improper form, are what causes the issue.
  - snovv_crash 4y ago
    I've never seen rabdo documented as coming from a first workout. Usually it's from overtraining 3-4 days in a row while being dehydrated, or it's due to an ultramarathon runner pushing through the pain on their 100 miler in a desert, or (much more likely) it's a car crash crush injury.

No, this is a common theme I see. People who know nothing about exercise take real medical things that happen to people who massively overtrain and assume it can happen to a regular unfit person exercising for 10 minutes a day. For the 3x20s intervals, the max effort of a person is far, far, below the max effort that, say, I can put out (as a trained cyclist). I strongly doubt the people doing this were actually pushing the 500W for 20s that I saw bandied in another thread. They're more likely pushing 200W and tickling 300W for a few seconds. This is still a high perceived exertion (though lower absolute kcal expenditure), so it's a good effort on their part. But they're unlikely to black out or cause major muscle injuries beyond feeling a bit sore in the morning.

matsemann 4y ago
The rabdo I'm talking about doesn't just happen to people that overtrain on a regular basis. It happens often to beginners doing their first workout at a gym being pushed to hard. But I agree, for 1 minute total effort it's probably not a risk. My comment was more in the general sense of giving untrained people high intensity workouts, especially in a group context where they take it too far (like crossfit).
- matwood 4y ago
  > often Citation needed. Which is the point of the person you're responding to. For an untrained person to even get to what is considered 'high' intensity in their first workout is not common. I do all sorts of training with trained and new people alike and have never seen rhabdo in person. I know it can happen, but I think the stories stick out because it's so uncommon.
  - matsemann 4y ago
    > Citation needed. But no citation needed from your personal experience of never seeing it..? I think you're reading waaaay too much into what I'm saying.
    - matwood 4y ago
      Yeah. If you're saying 'often' then people who work out and/or train people a lot should have a decent likelihood of seeing it. I know it happens because I've read articles of it happening. But the way people bring it up any time a fitness discussion occurs is a meme at this point.
      - matsemann 4y ago
        My point was that it happens more with beginners, so an experienced not seeing it often is expected.. Btw here is a local source. Three people got it from a group session. The doctor in the article says it happens about 400 times a year in little Norway, and that the group most often affected is people that used to be fit many years ago, and then start off too hard. https://www.nrk.no/nordland/innlagt-pa-nordlandssykehuset-med-rabdomyolyse-etter-trening-1.15364712 https://www.nrk.no/nordland/innlagt-pa-nordlandssykehuset-me...
        scott_w 4y ago
        This is a common case I see of misusing statistics without really understanding what's happening. I can't read Norwegian but I'll take a stab at what's happened here (based on my knowledge of other articles and having 20 years of personal experience of fitness training). - This wasn't one group session but repeated sessions of HIIT back to back (maybe even daily). - There wasn't sufficient rest between sessions. - Some of these were older (50+) patients. The most important part is the repeated sessions. Doing a single session of HIIT pull-ups or sprint intervals on the bike aren't going to cause major muscle damage, even in an untrained person. Doing 5 days back-to-back, repeatedly going beyond failure (something Crossfit is notorious for), with improper form, are what causes the issue.
- snovv_crash 4y ago
  I've never seen rabdo documented as coming from a first workout. Usually it's from overtraining 3-4 days in a row while being dehydrated, or it's due to an ultramarathon runner pushing through the pain on their 100 miler in a desert, or (much more likely) it's a car crash crush injury.