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If you're completely out of shape, going at HIIT level intensity is also risky. Better to build some kind of baseline before jumping into the deep end.

antupis 4y ago
It is not risky but it is hard and I rather do low intensity running 60 minutes than 8 minutes HIIT.
- matsemann 4y ago
  It is risky. People push themselves too hard to keep up and end up with rabdo. (Edit: I was thinking more of a normal HIIT class, not the 1 minute one)
  - newaccount74 4y ago
    Does that really happen for 3x 20sec max effort on a stationary bike?
    - scott_w 4y ago
      No, this is a common theme I see. People who know nothing about exercise take real medical things that happen to people who massively overtrain and assume it can happen to a regular unfit person exercising for 10 minutes a day. For the 3x20s intervals, the max effort of a person is far, far, below the max effort that, say, I can put out (as a trained cyclist). I strongly doubt the people doing this were actually pushing the 500W for 20s that I saw bandied in another thread. They're more likely pushing 200W and tickling 300W for a few seconds. This is still a high perceived exertion (though lower absolute kcal expenditure), so it's a good effort on their part. But they're unlikely to black out or cause major muscle injuries beyond feeling a bit sore in the morning.
      - matsemann 4y ago
        The rabdo I'm talking about doesn't just happen to people that overtrain on a regular basis. It happens often to beginners doing their first workout at a gym being pushed to hard. But I agree, for 1 minute total effort it's probably not a risk. My comment was more in the general sense of giving untrained people high intensity workouts, especially in a group context where they take it too far (like crossfit).
        matwood 4y ago
        > often Citation needed. Which is the point of the person you're responding to. For an untrained person to even get to what is considered 'high' intensity in their first workout is not common. I do all sorts of training with trained and new people alike and have never seen rhabdo in person. I know it can happen, but I think the stories stick out because it's so uncommon.
        matsemann 4y ago
        > Citation needed. But no citation needed from your personal experience of never seeing it..? I think you're reading waaaay too much into what I'm saying.
        matwood 4y ago
        Yeah. If you're saying 'often' then people who work out and/or train people a lot should have a decent likelihood of seeing it. I know it happens because I've read articles of it happening. But the way people bring it up any time a fitness discussion occurs is a meme at this point.
        matsemann 4y ago
        My point was that it happens more with beginners, so an experienced not seeing it often is expected.. Btw here is a local source. Three people got it from a group session. The doctor in the article says it happens about 400 times a year in little Norway, and that the group most often affected is people that used to be fit many years ago, and then start off too hard. https://www.nrk.no/nordland/innlagt-pa-nordlandssykehuset-med-rabdomyolyse-etter-trening-1.15364712 https://www.nrk.no/nordland/innlagt-pa-nordlandssykehuset-me...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - scott_w 4y ago
    This is a criticism of cross-fit specifically and not HIIT workouts in general. I'd personally not recommend this training to newcomers but that's because I think the study is total bunk, not because I'd be worried about an injury.
    - FartyMcFarter 4y ago
      Crossfit is bad for most people for other reasons as well. For example, look at how they do pull-ups [1]. It's basically a fitness meme at this point - they use form that doesn't encourage general strength, just swinging around and putting pressure on the arm/shoulder joints on the way down, for the sake of increasing competition rep numbers. This seems utterly pointless unless you really care about winning Crossfit competitions [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PWvepZMZ7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PWvepZMZ7E [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEe-loVKOOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEe-loVKOOM
      - matwood 4y ago
        I feel like there is Crossfit the brand and crossfit the idea of group fitness helping people be accountable, learn proper form, etc... The former is garbage, while the later can be good.
      - matsemann 4y ago
        No, "most people" wont do that kind of pullups in crossfit. Yes, those doing competitions are optimizing for something else (reps) than general strength. But most of those doing crossfit actually focus on the general strength.
  - geraldwhen 4y ago
    The only person I know who got rabdo was not drinking enough water daily and supplementing creatine.
    - antupis 4y ago
      yup personally I don't know anybody who have got that when training and what I have heard it is usually not enough water + some sketchy supplements like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxycut https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxycut .
    - FartyMcFarter 4y ago
      What does creatine have to do with it? If anything, creatine seems to reduce the risk, by reducing the amount of muscle damage: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5371628/#:~:text=Overall%2C%20the%20available%20data%20strongly,rhabdomyolysis%2C%20not%20a%20higher%20risk https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5371628/#:~:tex.... "Overall, the available data strongly suggest that creatine supplementation prior to an endurance exercise challenge reduces muscle damage and inflammation in athletes, both of which would predict a lower risk of rhabdomyolysis, not a higher risk."
      - snovv_crash 4y ago
        Creatine gives you extra strength which could allow you to push your muscles harder.
      - geraldwhen 4y ago
        Creatine is processed by the kidneys, which exacerbated or caused the rhabdo. The kidneys were too stressed to handle the muscle breakdown.
- Existenceblinks 4y ago
  It is absolutely risky. Easily black out. EDIT:: added my experience I was riding mountain bike, and went to competition here and there. And then I stopped for many months, got back and rode the same speed. For real I thought I was going to die, it was almost a black out and panic. Never again risking with "coming back with intensive training" .. just no.

antupis 4y ago

It is not risky but it is hard and I rather do low intensity running 60 minutes than 8 minutes HIIT.

matsemann 4y ago
It is risky. People push themselves too hard to keep up and end up with rabdo. (Edit: I was thinking more of a normal HIIT class, not the 1 minute one)
- newaccount74 4y ago
  Does that really happen for 3x 20sec max effort on a stationary bike?
  - scott_w 4y ago
    No, this is a common theme I see. People who know nothing about exercise take real medical things that happen to people who massively overtrain and assume it can happen to a regular unfit person exercising for 10 minutes a day. For the 3x20s intervals, the max effort of a person is far, far, below the max effort that, say, I can put out (as a trained cyclist). I strongly doubt the people doing this were actually pushing the 500W for 20s that I saw bandied in another thread. They're more likely pushing 200W and tickling 300W for a few seconds. This is still a high perceived exertion (though lower absolute kcal expenditure), so it's a good effort on their part. But they're unlikely to black out or cause major muscle injuries beyond feeling a bit sore in the morning.
    - matsemann 4y ago
      The rabdo I'm talking about doesn't just happen to people that overtrain on a regular basis. It happens often to beginners doing their first workout at a gym being pushed to hard. But I agree, for 1 minute total effort it's probably not a risk. My comment was more in the general sense of giving untrained people high intensity workouts, especially in a group context where they take it too far (like crossfit).
      - matwood 4y ago
        > often Citation needed. Which is the point of the person you're responding to. For an untrained person to even get to what is considered 'high' intensity in their first workout is not common. I do all sorts of training with trained and new people alike and have never seen rhabdo in person. I know it can happen, but I think the stories stick out because it's so uncommon.
        matsemann 4y ago
        > Citation needed. But no citation needed from your personal experience of never seeing it..? I think you're reading waaaay too much into what I'm saying.
        matwood 4y ago
        Yeah. If you're saying 'often' then people who work out and/or train people a lot should have a decent likelihood of seeing it. I know it happens because I've read articles of it happening. But the way people bring it up any time a fitness discussion occurs is a meme at this point.
        matsemann 4y ago
        My point was that it happens more with beginners, so an experienced not seeing it often is expected.. Btw here is a local source. Three people got it from a group session. The doctor in the article says it happens about 400 times a year in little Norway, and that the group most often affected is people that used to be fit many years ago, and then start off too hard. https://www.nrk.no/nordland/innlagt-pa-nordlandssykehuset-med-rabdomyolyse-etter-trening-1.15364712 https://www.nrk.no/nordland/innlagt-pa-nordlandssykehuset-me...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- scott_w 4y ago
  This is a criticism of cross-fit specifically and not HIIT workouts in general. I'd personally not recommend this training to newcomers but that's because I think the study is total bunk, not because I'd be worried about an injury.
  - FartyMcFarter 4y ago
    Crossfit is bad for most people for other reasons as well. For example, look at how they do pull-ups [1]. It's basically a fitness meme at this point - they use form that doesn't encourage general strength, just swinging around and putting pressure on the arm/shoulder joints on the way down, for the sake of increasing competition rep numbers. This seems utterly pointless unless you really care about winning Crossfit competitions [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PWvepZMZ7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PWvepZMZ7E [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEe-loVKOOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEe-loVKOOM
    - matwood 4y ago
      I feel like there is Crossfit the brand and crossfit the idea of group fitness helping people be accountable, learn proper form, etc... The former is garbage, while the later can be good.
    - matsemann 4y ago
      No, "most people" wont do that kind of pullups in crossfit. Yes, those doing competitions are optimizing for something else (reps) than general strength. But most of those doing crossfit actually focus on the general strength.
- geraldwhen 4y ago
  The only person I know who got rabdo was not drinking enough water daily and supplementing creatine.
  - antupis 4y ago
    yup personally I don't know anybody who have got that when training and what I have heard it is usually not enough water + some sketchy supplements like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxycut https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxycut .
  - FartyMcFarter 4y ago
    What does creatine have to do with it? If anything, creatine seems to reduce the risk, by reducing the amount of muscle damage: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5371628/#:~:text=Overall%2C%20the%20available%20data%20strongly,rhabdomyolysis%2C%20not%20a%20higher%20risk https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5371628/#:~:tex.... "Overall, the available data strongly suggest that creatine supplementation prior to an endurance exercise challenge reduces muscle damage and inflammation in athletes, both of which would predict a lower risk of rhabdomyolysis, not a higher risk."
    - snovv_crash 4y ago
      Creatine gives you extra strength which could allow you to push your muscles harder.
    - geraldwhen 4y ago
      Creatine is processed by the kidneys, which exacerbated or caused the rhabdo. The kidneys were too stressed to handle the muscle breakdown.
Existenceblinks 4y ago
It is absolutely risky. Easily black out. EDIT:: added my experience I was riding mountain bike, and went to competition here and there. And then I stopped for many months, got back and rode the same speed. For real I thought I was going to die, it was almost a black out and panic. Never again risking with "coming back with intensive training" .. just no.