5 ms·

A lot of workers want to go back to the office, too. The social, career, and daily experiences of in-person office work have a wide number of tangible benefits

A lot of workers want to go back to the office, too. The social, career, and daily experiences of in-person office work have a wide number of tangible benefits that can’t be replicated sitting at home on the computer.

algem 4y ago
I haven’t heard one person say they want to go back to office everyday of the week. Let alone majority of the week. When asked in a group at work everyone feels pressured to say they miss in office work but I really doubt anyone would say that if they knew it wouldn’t make them look bad.
- happymellon 4y ago
  I would be okay with once a week, or perhaps once a fortnight. Sprint planning sessions can be hard to get everyone engaged, but it isn't impossible. Retro can be remote, the biggest issue has been, is, and always will be teams that have no control and are dependent on other teams to do anything, don't write their own tickets and don't have an easily viewable plan that they can work towards. Location has nothing to do with that.
dmitrygr 4y ago
> benefits that can’t be replicated sitting at home on the computer. Please cite your sources
- nequo 4y ago
  Nick Bloom gave a couple interviews on this. This website collects research summaries on WFH: https://wfhresearch.com/research-and-policy/ https://wfhresearch.com/research-and-policy/ Many benefits. But one downside he mentioned was that he doesn’t generate research ideas through planned 30-minute one-on-one interactions but through more unstructured conversations. Those are eliminated with virtual seminars and virtual conferences. Early-career folks might struggle too but I am not sure if that was articulated by his research.
  - dmitrygr 4y ago
    > he doesn’t generate research ideas N=1, my favourite kind of proof. Luckily, I am not Nick Bloom - I generate plenty of better ideas from home
    - nequo 4y ago
      You responded to your mental image of my comment about his work rather than to his actual work. His work is not N=1. If you just open the link, you see. Keep an open mind.
      - dmitrygr 4y ago
        " he doesn’t generate research ideas through planned 30-minute one-on-one interactions but through more unstructured conversations" - your comment
        nequo 4y ago
        My comment included a link. And I did not say that what you quoted was all of his work. It was paraphrasing one thing he said in a one-hour interview.
  - BearfootCoder 4y ago
    I've been working in IT for 30 odd years, 24 entirely office based, 6 some combination of hybrid and home, and in my view the argument that innovation and creativity are uniquely fostered by interactions in the office is seriously over-stated. This is obviously just annecdata, but in my working life I can think of literally zero ideas which emerged from just happening to run into someone in the canteen or one of the corridors. Most work conversations are vacuous, time-wasting bullshit. Fun if you've nothing better to do, and nice for greasing the social wheels, but rarely a source of brilliant transformation. In a depressingly large number of work spaces, creativity and innovation are rarely relevant to your job description anyway. You're not there to transform the business. You're there to churn through whatever piece of nonsense has been handed down from on high, and since in quite a significant number of cases the work you've been given will make zero practical difference to the overall well-being of the company it doesn't really matter if you do it well or badly. Even if that weren't the case, what is it that is supposed to make serendipitous encounters inherently better than structured idea development? Are we really supposed to believe that just happening to encounter the person who holds the missing puzzle piece of what you're working on are exactly the moment you need it is the best way of generating transformative ideas? I'm not saying that such random encounters don't happen and can't be significant. But one reason these things turn into corporate legends is because they are rare and outlandish. "I said something in a taxi or a bar and someone else said something that turned into $$$" is a story, whereas, "I was stuck so I laid out the problem in a Slack channel or took it to on online brainstorming session and a couple of my co-workers helped me fix it" isn't. But that's because the first case is a weird freaky miracle, and the second is just an ordinary, effective way of running a business.
mixedCase 4y ago
Would you care to list 10? Here are 15 about working from home from my perspective: - It eliminates the need for spending time commuting, which becomes free time. - It eliminates most of the need for spending money on a car that sits still most of the time. To the degree that I don't even own a car right now and just Uber/taxi/bus everywhere and rent when I actually need one. - I get to spend more time with my partner and pets. - I get to live wherever the hell I want so long as I have decent Internet available. - I will always be able to use a beefy desktop computer instead of a slow laptop and a lesser set-up. - I am able to tend to home duties that require people at home (such as receiving packages or maintenance workers). - I can exert vastly more control over distractions and end up more productive. - Lunch time is far less of a concern (not restricted to tupperware-compatible foods) and cheaper (since there's more home-cooked options available, I order less food overall). - I get to have specialty coffee whenever I want, however I want, real proper espresso included. - If I'm not feeling it after lunch, I can be available on Slack on-demand during the day in order not to block anyone and then do focus-demanding tasks late at night. - I like listening to somewhat loud music and I don't like wearing headphones all day. - I don't have to worry about being "office presentable" every day for a long streak of hours. Meaning less effort, more time, and for some people, more money. - I don't feel as much pressure to attend after-office events when I'm not feeling up to it. - Even when an office is equipped for powernapping, it can't compare to my own bed in the privacy of my home. - And speaking of: If you don't have the luxury of living in a neighborhood where opportunist burglars aren't a thing, your presence will dissuade most of them from going into your home. I am not part of the crew that absolutely rules out going back to an office ever in their lives. But there is a big number attached to it during negotiation that matches the huge life improvement that WFH is for me.
- mrlkts 4y ago
  Not the OP. I understand my situation might be a bit specific, but I'm a single guy living in a small apartment in his very early 30s with not a lot of friends and family (important point that my commute to the office is a 15 minute walk). We basically have an unlimited WFH policy, but I still like to spend at least 2-3 days in the office as I've noticed it has some strong benefits. There might not be exactly 10 of them, but for me it's definitely enough. - It's something that makes me leave the house - I've found that being around people has a positive effect on my mental health and general wellbeing - As I live in a small apartment, I don't have the desk space for a multi monitor setup I would prefer - The coffee is just way better than the one I am able to make at home - It's an occasion when I have to look presentable, so I'm taking better care of myself So going forward, we need to realize people are in different situations, situations can change and if the employers care about their employees the WFH option needs to stay.
stodor89 4y ago
Just spending 1 or 2 more hours with your family (rather than commuting) completely eclipses whatever subtle advantages an office can provide. And I feel sorry for anyone who would disagree with that.
- Traubenfuchs 4y ago
  I noticed that mostly men with children at home return to office, to escape their families.
  - AussieWog93 4y ago
    Also worth noting that for a lot of men in particular, basically their entire social network consists almost entirely of current (and a few past) work colleagues.
  - xyzal 4y ago
    Sometimes I do! For introverts, family life should come with a safety label.
- chii 4y ago
  > And I feel sorry for anyone who would disagree with that. each person to their own. Office, for those who love it, is fine - there's nothing wrong with wanting a social setting for work. The only problem is when such desire could prevent the WFH folks from getting what they want. Both _should_ be allowed to exist, and the workers choose for themselves without coercion or pressure.
- mdmglr 4y ago
  I feel sorry for anyone that has to live > 10 minutes away from the office. Before working from home full time I lived 10 minutes away from the office. If you do the math you have to compute the difference in rent/mortgage between a house 1+ hours away from work vs. 10 minutes then factor in driving that car, potential risk of auto accident, health issues due to added stress of leaving for work on time and driving with others...
- NackerHughes 4y ago

algem 4y ago

I haven’t heard one person say they want to go back to office everyday of the week. Let alone majority of the week. When asked in a group at work everyone feels pressured to say they miss in office work but I really doubt anyone would say that if they knew it wouldn’t make them look bad.

happymellon 4y ago
I would be okay with once a week, or perhaps once a fortnight. Sprint planning sessions can be hard to get everyone engaged, but it isn't impossible. Retro can be remote, the biggest issue has been, is, and always will be teams that have no control and are dependent on other teams to do anything, don't write their own tickets and don't have an easily viewable plan that they can work towards. Location has nothing to do with that.

dmitrygr 4y ago

> benefits that can’t be replicated sitting at home on the computer. Please cite your sources

nequo 4y ago
Nick Bloom gave a couple interviews on this. This website collects research summaries on WFH: https://wfhresearch.com/research-and-policy/ https://wfhresearch.com/research-and-policy/ Many benefits. But one downside he mentioned was that he doesn’t generate research ideas through planned 30-minute one-on-one interactions but through more unstructured conversations. Those are eliminated with virtual seminars and virtual conferences. Early-career folks might struggle too but I am not sure if that was articulated by his research.
- dmitrygr 4y ago
  > he doesn’t generate research ideas N=1, my favourite kind of proof. Luckily, I am not Nick Bloom - I generate plenty of better ideas from home
  - nequo 4y ago
    You responded to your mental image of my comment about his work rather than to his actual work. His work is not N=1. If you just open the link, you see. Keep an open mind.
    - dmitrygr 4y ago
      " he doesn’t generate research ideas through planned 30-minute one-on-one interactions but through more unstructured conversations" - your comment
      - nequo 4y ago
        My comment included a link. And I did not say that what you quoted was all of his work. It was paraphrasing one thing he said in a one-hour interview.
- BearfootCoder 4y ago
  I've been working in IT for 30 odd years, 24 entirely office based, 6 some combination of hybrid and home, and in my view the argument that innovation and creativity are uniquely fostered by interactions in the office is seriously over-stated. This is obviously just annecdata, but in my working life I can think of literally zero ideas which emerged from just happening to run into someone in the canteen or one of the corridors. Most work conversations are vacuous, time-wasting bullshit. Fun if you've nothing better to do, and nice for greasing the social wheels, but rarely a source of brilliant transformation. In a depressingly large number of work spaces, creativity and innovation are rarely relevant to your job description anyway. You're not there to transform the business. You're there to churn through whatever piece of nonsense has been handed down from on high, and since in quite a significant number of cases the work you've been given will make zero practical difference to the overall well-being of the company it doesn't really matter if you do it well or badly. Even if that weren't the case, what is it that is supposed to make serendipitous encounters inherently better than structured idea development? Are we really supposed to believe that just happening to encounter the person who holds the missing puzzle piece of what you're working on are exactly the moment you need it is the best way of generating transformative ideas? I'm not saying that such random encounters don't happen and can't be significant. But one reason these things turn into corporate legends is because they are rare and outlandish. "I said something in a taxi or a bar and someone else said something that turned into $$$" is a story, whereas, "I was stuck so I laid out the problem in a Slack channel or took it to on online brainstorming session and a couple of my co-workers helped me fix it" isn't. But that's because the first case is a weird freaky miracle, and the second is just an ordinary, effective way of running a business.

mixedCase 4y ago

Would you care to list 10? Here are 15 about working from home from my perspective: - It eliminates the need for spending time commuting, which becomes free time. - It eliminates most of the need for spending money on a car that sits still most of the time. To the degree that I don't even own a car right now and just Uber/taxi/bus everywhere and rent when I actually need one. - I get to spend more time with my partner and pets. - I get to live wherever the hell I want so long as I have decent Internet available. - I will always be able to use a beefy desktop computer instead of a slow laptop and a lesser set-up. - I am able to tend to home duties that require people at home (such as receiving packages or maintenance workers). - I can exert vastly more control over distractions and end up more productive. - Lunch time is far less of a concern (not restricted to tupperware-compatible foods) and cheaper (since there's more home-cooked options available, I order less food overall). - I get to have specialty coffee whenever I want, however I want, real proper espresso included. - If I'm not feeling it after lunch, I can be available on Slack on-demand during the day in order not to block anyone and then do focus-demanding tasks late at night. - I like listening to somewhat loud music and I don't like wearing headphones all day. - I don't have to worry about being "office presentable" every day for a long streak of hours. Meaning less effort, more time, and for some people, more money. - I don't feel as much pressure to attend after-office events when I'm not feeling up to it. - Even when an office is equipped for powernapping, it can't compare to my own bed in the privacy of my home. - And speaking of: If you don't have the luxury of living in a neighborhood where opportunist burglars aren't a thing, your presence will dissuade most of them from going into your home. I am not part of the crew that absolutely rules out going back to an office ever in their lives. But there is a big number attached to it during negotiation that matches the huge life improvement that WFH is for me.

mrlkts 4y ago
Not the OP. I understand my situation might be a bit specific, but I'm a single guy living in a small apartment in his very early 30s with not a lot of friends and family (important point that my commute to the office is a 15 minute walk). We basically have an unlimited WFH policy, but I still like to spend at least 2-3 days in the office as I've noticed it has some strong benefits. There might not be exactly 10 of them, but for me it's definitely enough. - It's something that makes me leave the house - I've found that being around people has a positive effect on my mental health and general wellbeing - As I live in a small apartment, I don't have the desk space for a multi monitor setup I would prefer - The coffee is just way better than the one I am able to make at home - It's an occasion when I have to look presentable, so I'm taking better care of myself So going forward, we need to realize people are in different situations, situations can change and if the employers care about their employees the WFH option needs to stay.

stodor89 4y ago

Just spending 1 or 2 more hours with your family (rather than commuting) completely eclipses whatever subtle advantages an office can provide. And I feel sorry for anyone who would disagree with that.

Traubenfuchs 4y ago
I noticed that mostly men with children at home return to office, to escape their families.
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  Also worth noting that for a lot of men in particular, basically their entire social network consists almost entirely of current (and a few past) work colleagues.
- xyzal 4y ago
  Sometimes I do! For introverts, family life should come with a safety label.
chii 4y ago
> And I feel sorry for anyone who would disagree with that. each person to their own. Office, for those who love it, is fine - there's nothing wrong with wanting a social setting for work. The only problem is when such desire could prevent the WFH folks from getting what they want. Both _should_ be allowed to exist, and the workers choose for themselves without coercion or pressure.
mdmglr 4y ago
I feel sorry for anyone that has to live > 10 minutes away from the office. Before working from home full time I lived 10 minutes away from the office. If you do the math you have to compute the difference in rent/mortgage between a house 1+ hours away from work vs. 10 minutes then factor in driving that car, potential risk of auto accident, health issues due to added stress of leaving for work on time and driving with others...
NackerHughes 4y ago