18 ms·

In the last three years, something related to my gut-brain connection got fucked. I'm not sure if it was some kind of post-viral inflammation causing stress, or

by yosito 4y ago

In the last three years, something related to my gut-brain connection got fucked. I'm not sure if it was some kind of post-viral inflammation causing stress, or stress of isolation causing inflammation. But it's definitely a two way street and mine got completely stuck in a feedback loop. The mainstream medical system failed to help me. Eventually some functional medicine doctors managed to help me improve via diet, supplements, herbal remedies and probiotics. Through (risky) experimentation and happenstance I found even more relief with some traditional medicines (pure Greek mastiha sap, kambo and Ayahuasca) and anti-malarial pills I had taken for unrelated reasons. Unfortunately the mainstream medical system has been completely unable to investigate or explain what is going on with my body, but anecdotally, the theory that there is a two way street between gut bacteria and the brain completely aligns with my experience. I'm feeling better now, though my stomach still feels sensitive and I can no longer tolerate gluten.

lofaszvanitt 4y ago
do abs exercises every even day that work your lower, middle and upper abdomen. do these until you can't anymore, each part. It increases blood flow to your gut and speeds up the recovery process.
valarauko 4y ago
What's the issues you've been facing, and why do you think it's a gut-brain issue?
- yosito 4y ago
  Constipation, headaches, stress, bloating, anxiety, depression, fatigue, weight loss, hair loss, rashes. I don't know what the cause was, but the gut-brain theory fits all of my experience and treatments aimed at improving my gut bacteria helped the most, and there has definitely been a strong connection between how my gut is feeling and how my mind is feeling.
  - valarauko 4y ago
    If you're experiencing an improvement, great. It seems reasonable that your gut issues (if nothing else) could be improved by addressing the gut biome. Since you've had some luck with traditional medicines, I can share my $0.02 about the traditional system I'm somewhat familiar with. In traditional Indian folk medicine, the focus for practically everything seems to revolve around improving gut health. It's a common belief that tongue health is a reflection of gut health, so for example a coated tongue suggests a sluggish digestive system, and the physician will seek to address that before anything else. A lot of treatments also include required dietary changes (like avoiding certain vegetables).
    - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
      > like avoiding certain vegetables I've never heard of this. Western medicine says "all the vegetables, all the time". What are some of the vegetables people told to avoid? Genuinely curious.
      - wxnx 4y ago
        Even in Western medicine (at the research stage, at least), that is not necessarily true in patients suffering from certain conditions. There is some evidence (in the sense of evidence-based medicine) that a low-FODMAP (fermentable *saccharides) diet reduces symptoms in patients with irritable bowel syndrome. [1] As far as vegetables go, according to one site high-FODMAP vegetables include alliums and artichokes. [2] It is worth noting that the authors of the linked review paper caution that it is unknown whether a low-FODMAP diet may have long-term adverse effects. [1] doi:10.2147/CEG.S86798 [2] https://www.monashfodmap.com/about-fodmap-and-ibs/high-and-low-fodmap-foods/ https://www.monashfodmap.com/about-fodmap-and-ibs/high-and-l...
      - kzrdude 4y ago
        Autoimmune Protocol diets commonly favour leafy greens a lot while telling you to avoid too starchy veg and everything in the potato-tomato family ("nightshades"). Very abbreviated it would be "eat green veg, fish and meat."
popotamonga 4y ago
I got the opposite experience. I have IBD and recently started on some potent probiotics. Suddenly my energy and focus went up 1000%. So this is how regular people healthy live wow. I used to be lethargic all the time for 30+ years.
- graeme 4y ago
  Which one was it? I’ve heard about Vsl-3 as being medical grade
  - popotamonga 4y ago
    That one exactly. Expensive as crap and hard to find in my country but it's priceless.
    - d23 4y ago
      What's up with this? https://vsl3.com/assets/v1/patient/files/FactSheetVSL3Jun2021.pdf https://vsl3.com/assets/v1/patient/files/FactSheetVSL3Jun202... Just went to their site and it sketched me out a bit to read this.
      - jassyr 4y ago
        As far as I can tell it's a business/patent dispute. https://www.visbiome.com/blogs/visbiome-vs-vsl-3/exegi-wins-court-ruling-against-vsl-3-permanent-injunction-blocks-false-advertising-to-doctors-consumers https://www.visbiome.com/blogs/visbiome-vs-vsl-3/exegi-wins-...
      - manav 4y ago
        It is a patent dispute, from what I can recall visbiome is the one with the legitimate claim and original inventor.
    - graeme 4y ago
      Edit: Do you take the one I linked, or this prescription grade extra strength? https://www.visbiome.com/collections/all/products/visbiome-extra-strength-high-potency-probiotic https://www.visbiome.com/collections/all/products/visbiome-e... ($6.2/day without insurance coverage) ----- Thanks! For anyone in Canada or USA wondering, I just searched and apparently you can buy it online now. About $2 a day: https://www.visbiome.com/collections/all/products/visbiome-capsules-2-pack https://www.visbiome.com/collections/all/products/visbiome-c... I had looked years ago and found it hard to get. Going to check with my doctor, might be something prescribable, which would either make it covered by insurance or at the least a tax deductible health expense. Here's the Canadian link: https://www.visbiome.ca/collections/all https://www.visbiome.ca/collections/all
bch 4y ago
> pure Greek mastiha sap Mmm. The root for the word “masticate” (the resin is used like chewing gum), and the “piney” flavour in Greek halva (among other things). Notably, a collection of trees on one Greek islands (Chios) were under threat from forest fire a few years ago[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Chios_Forest_Fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Chios_Forest_Fire
NoPicklez 4y ago
The challenge I think modern medicine has is that in order to prescribe a solution it does need to understand the problem and how your gut might be responsible for it. As we know the medical world takes time to adapt and so it takes more than just a few studies to require doctors and GP's to understand it, better yet be equipped to prescribe a solution. For many of these gut health related issues, I think most people would be better off seeing a dietitian or even as you say functional medicine doctors. As Tim Spector has been saying, so many ailments resulting from the gut can be fixed through eating a more organic/wholefoods diet. This takes time and isn't easy to do.
- arminiusreturns 4y ago
  I was part of genetics boom when sequencing dropped in price, and I thought that situations just like this were what the market was poised to capitalize on, sequencers in every doctors office or at least cheap enough and prolific enough that sequencing a micriobiome would give doctors data to work with. The sad reality is that many doctors are operating with what data scientists would reject as missing or bad data, the solution (ignoring the money side) is to get them into a pattern of collecting more data and being better at analysing it. Each microbiome is different, and I think until sequenced and analyzed, it is simply guessing on the part of patient and doctor.
  - melony 4y ago
    Genome wide association studies are expensive and take time. Forward and reverse genetics take money and time. PhDs need to be paid. Honestly if you have a typical software engineer's salary and no dependents, just fund some studies yourself. Do them in South America or some other place with lower compliance requirements.
treeman79 4y ago
Autoimmune conditions are the most common culprit. Doctors are horrible at diagnosing. Even if you have all the symptoms, family history, good response to treatment, and some positive tests. Autoimmune protocol diet is amazing for resolving from food triggers.
footlose_3815 4y ago
I got stress from working at FAANG. Took me 2 years to go back to bearable-normal. I'm still sensitive to stress, and for some reason, bacon goes through me like rocks.
pyinstallwoes 4y ago
Can you expand upon what you went through? Initial symptoms? What you thought it was? How you were initially treated? What felt wrong in treatment? How'd you find the other functional medicine doctors? I think your story has a lot of weight and I personally am very curious as I've had my own suspicions personally. Thank you!
wnolens 4y ago
Hmm.. same/similar. Maybe I should go outside the western playbook a little further. Thanks. An episode of extreme stress during the pandemic has left me with IBS-C. Apologize for TMI. Before: I ate anything, whenever, in whatever quantity body requested and was consistent 2-3x/day. Now: my body just does not pass stool on its own anymore and I require a prescription for Linzess (highest dosage). Without it, I will bloat to the point of a visibly distended stomach and pass rock hard stool once every 3ish days. Being so bloated causes me to eat less and I shed 15lbs (145lb@6ft). Tried no fodmap diet, heavy on fermented foods for a while, xifaxan (in case of SIBO), prebiotics previously mentioned on HN. I've settled on Linzess daily + a heavy meat diet, with oats for breakfast. Too many vegetables and I get bloated. Most breads as well. Carbonated beverages make me into a balloon.
- yosito 4y ago
  I might have tried Linzess if it had been offered to me. Most of the doctors I saw probably wouldn't have even prescribed it if I had asked. They seemed set on not helping me. My symptoms were similar to yours. I discovered on my own that digestive enzymes blends with every meal kept things flowing for me. Abdominal massage helped too. But I didn't make real progress until I started working with functional medicine doctors and trying different regimens of supplements with their direction.
  - wnolens 4y ago
    Glad you got some relief. It is truly puzzling. My doc stopped at Linzess, of course. Ultimately I don't want to take a pill every day for the rest of my life. Have a pointer to the folks that helped you?
    - yosito 4y ago
      I had one doctor in Boulder who I worked with remotely, and one in Cape Town. I'd say just Google "functional medicine doctors" in your area. Unfortunately, you'll have to evaluate their trustworthiness on your own because most of them are not licensed and a lot of them are full of bullshit.
rswail 4y ago
Just a comment, using the term "mainstream medical system" is a "code smell" for me when discussing medical science. Have you had your gut biota analyzed to see whether there is a basis for your inflammation issues? Yes, "big pharma" has a lot of control, but medical research is not entirely driven by them, particularly outside of the US. It sounds like you remade your gut biota via various paths. "Traditional" medicines are "medicines" when they get through a set of actual medical clinical trials, after which they are called "medicine". The fact that you have given yourself some form of gluten intolerance/allergy does not exactly imply "success" in what you've done so far.
- tsol 4y ago
  >"Traditional" medicines are "medicines" when they get through a set of actual medical clinical trials, after which they are called "medicine". To be fair, Tylenol almost certainly wouldn't pass clinical trials today. Selling a drug OTC that so easily causes organ(liver) damage? Ridiculous. So would most NSAIDS-- as those cause stomach bleeding even in regular clinical doses. That also would imply that companies had an interest in testing natural treatments that may not sell well
  - culi 4y ago
    In addition most traditional medicine is centered around use of whole herbs. Lots of times there's complex processing that goes into it, but it's still something you can often just... grow. Clinical trials are extremely expensive and with the incentive system we have right now it'd make 0 sense for a company to invest in proving that something you can grow in your backyard can help treat something The WHO on the other hand has been investing heavily in traditional and complementary medicine (T&CM) in developing countries as they offer "care that is close to homes, accessible and affordable. It is also culturally acceptable and trusted by large numbers of people". Interestingly, the use and research into traditional medicine is actually increasing worldwide. The US seems to be pretty unique, even compared to developed nations, in how little it values TM. The WHO report linked below points out that 100 million Europeans, 76% of Singapore, and 86% of South Koreans commonly use TM. It also points out interesting research like: > Another recent study indicates that patients whose general practitioner has additional complementary and alternative medicine training have lower health care costs and mortality rates than those who do not. Reduced costs were the outcome of fewer hospital stays and fewer prescription drugs (31) Interestingly, they differentiate TM from CM. TM being a country's actual traditional medicine system and the knowledge passed down across many generations (e.g. Unani, Ayurveda, TCM, etc) and CM being more like "alternative medicine" that is not part of a country's traditional system (anthroposophic medicine, chiropractic, homeopathy, naturopathy, osteopathy, etc; think your aunt trying to sell you essential oils) https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789241506096 https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789241506096
TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
If you really wanna crank up the woo, my most recent addition to gut health is a good dry needling practitioner, and a good osteopath / chiropractor - preferably one who does both and understands the importance of the vagus nerve. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagus_nerve https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagus_nerve Also good to learn some self-massage for the abdomen, and diaphragmatic breathing too.
fzeroracer 4y ago
Every thread on stuff like this there's always someone that has to step in and claim how their cancer was cured by this one weird trick that doctors hate. Ultimately the odds are that it's masking the symptoms in one way or another. Much like my cousin who went full into traditional medicine and claimed it solved all of her issues that she still has after downing a cocktail of 50 essential oils and whisky.
- yosito 4y ago
  I get your skepticism. I honestly don't know what the traditional medicine did to my body other than that it took away the physical suffering I was feeling. Did it mask some symptoms? Maybe. The thing is, the mainstream medical system failed to find any problem. They didn't diagnose me with anything or offer me any treatment despite the fact that I felt like I was dying every day. They refused to investigate any possible causes and told me I was not sick. A few mainstream doctors prescribed medicines to relieve my symptoms without addressing the underlying root causes. You seem to think that's a feature of traditional medicine, but it's actually quite common in mainstream medicine as well.

by yosito 4y ago

lofaszvanitt 4y ago

do abs exercises every even day that work your lower, middle and upper abdomen. do these until you can't anymore, each part. It increases blood flow to your gut and speeds up the recovery process.

valarauko 4y ago

What's the issues you've been facing, and why do you think it's a gut-brain issue?

yosito 4y ago
Constipation, headaches, stress, bloating, anxiety, depression, fatigue, weight loss, hair loss, rashes. I don't know what the cause was, but the gut-brain theory fits all of my experience and treatments aimed at improving my gut bacteria helped the most, and there has definitely been a strong connection between how my gut is feeling and how my mind is feeling.
- valarauko 4y ago
  If you're experiencing an improvement, great. It seems reasonable that your gut issues (if nothing else) could be improved by addressing the gut biome. Since you've had some luck with traditional medicines, I can share my $0.02 about the traditional system I'm somewhat familiar with. In traditional Indian folk medicine, the focus for practically everything seems to revolve around improving gut health. It's a common belief that tongue health is a reflection of gut health, so for example a coated tongue suggests a sluggish digestive system, and the physician will seek to address that before anything else. A lot of treatments also include required dietary changes (like avoiding certain vegetables).
  - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
    > like avoiding certain vegetables I've never heard of this. Western medicine says "all the vegetables, all the time". What are some of the vegetables people told to avoid? Genuinely curious.
    - wxnx 4y ago
      Even in Western medicine (at the research stage, at least), that is not necessarily true in patients suffering from certain conditions. There is some evidence (in the sense of evidence-based medicine) that a low-FODMAP (fermentable *saccharides) diet reduces symptoms in patients with irritable bowel syndrome. [1] As far as vegetables go, according to one site high-FODMAP vegetables include alliums and artichokes. [2] It is worth noting that the authors of the linked review paper caution that it is unknown whether a low-FODMAP diet may have long-term adverse effects. [1] doi:10.2147/CEG.S86798 [2] https://www.monashfodmap.com/about-fodmap-and-ibs/high-and-low-fodmap-foods/ https://www.monashfodmap.com/about-fodmap-and-ibs/high-and-l...
    - kzrdude 4y ago
      Autoimmune Protocol diets commonly favour leafy greens a lot while telling you to avoid too starchy veg and everything in the potato-tomato family ("nightshades"). Very abbreviated it would be "eat green veg, fish and meat."

popotamonga 4y ago

I got the opposite experience. I have IBD and recently started on some potent probiotics. Suddenly my energy and focus went up 1000%. So this is how regular people healthy live wow. I used to be lethargic all the time for 30+ years.

graeme 4y ago
Which one was it? I’ve heard about Vsl-3 as being medical grade
- popotamonga 4y ago
  That one exactly. Expensive as crap and hard to find in my country but it's priceless.
  - d23 4y ago
    What's up with this? https://vsl3.com/assets/v1/patient/files/FactSheetVSL3Jun2021.pdf https://vsl3.com/assets/v1/patient/files/FactSheetVSL3Jun202... Just went to their site and it sketched me out a bit to read this.
    - jassyr 4y ago
      As far as I can tell it's a business/patent dispute. https://www.visbiome.com/blogs/visbiome-vs-vsl-3/exegi-wins-court-ruling-against-vsl-3-permanent-injunction-blocks-false-advertising-to-doctors-consumers https://www.visbiome.com/blogs/visbiome-vs-vsl-3/exegi-wins-...
    - manav 4y ago
      It is a patent dispute, from what I can recall visbiome is the one with the legitimate claim and original inventor.
  - graeme 4y ago
    Edit: Do you take the one I linked, or this prescription grade extra strength? https://www.visbiome.com/collections/all/products/visbiome-extra-strength-high-potency-probiotic https://www.visbiome.com/collections/all/products/visbiome-e... ($6.2/day without insurance coverage) ----- Thanks! For anyone in Canada or USA wondering, I just searched and apparently you can buy it online now. About $2 a day: https://www.visbiome.com/collections/all/products/visbiome-capsules-2-pack https://www.visbiome.com/collections/all/products/visbiome-c... I had looked years ago and found it hard to get. Going to check with my doctor, might be something prescribable, which would either make it covered by insurance or at the least a tax deductible health expense. Here's the Canadian link: https://www.visbiome.ca/collections/all https://www.visbiome.ca/collections/all

bch 4y ago

> pure Greek mastiha sap Mmm. The root for the word “masticate” (the resin is used like chewing gum), and the “piney” flavour in Greek halva (among other things). Notably, a collection of trees on one Greek islands (Chios) were under threat from forest fire a few years ago[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Chios_Forest_Fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Chios_Forest_Fire

NoPicklez 4y ago

The challenge I think modern medicine has is that in order to prescribe a solution it does need to understand the problem and how your gut might be responsible for it. As we know the medical world takes time to adapt and so it takes more than just a few studies to require doctors and GP's to understand it, better yet be equipped to prescribe a solution. For many of these gut health related issues, I think most people would be better off seeing a dietitian or even as you say functional medicine doctors. As Tim Spector has been saying, so many ailments resulting from the gut can be fixed through eating a more organic/wholefoods diet. This takes time and isn't easy to do.

arminiusreturns 4y ago
I was part of genetics boom when sequencing dropped in price, and I thought that situations just like this were what the market was poised to capitalize on, sequencers in every doctors office or at least cheap enough and prolific enough that sequencing a micriobiome would give doctors data to work with. The sad reality is that many doctors are operating with what data scientists would reject as missing or bad data, the solution (ignoring the money side) is to get them into a pattern of collecting more data and being better at analysing it. Each microbiome is different, and I think until sequenced and analyzed, it is simply guessing on the part of patient and doctor.
- melony 4y ago
  Genome wide association studies are expensive and take time. Forward and reverse genetics take money and time. PhDs need to be paid. Honestly if you have a typical software engineer's salary and no dependents, just fund some studies yourself. Do them in South America or some other place with lower compliance requirements.

treeman79 4y ago

Autoimmune conditions are the most common culprit. Doctors are horrible at diagnosing. Even if you have all the symptoms, family history, good response to treatment, and some positive tests. Autoimmune protocol diet is amazing for resolving from food triggers.

footlose_3815 4y ago

I got stress from working at FAANG. Took me 2 years to go back to bearable-normal. I'm still sensitive to stress, and for some reason, bacon goes through me like rocks.

pyinstallwoes 4y ago

Can you expand upon what you went through? Initial symptoms? What you thought it was? How you were initially treated? What felt wrong in treatment? How'd you find the other functional medicine doctors? I think your story has a lot of weight and I personally am very curious as I've had my own suspicions personally. Thank you!

wnolens 4y ago

Hmm.. same/similar. Maybe I should go outside the western playbook a little further. Thanks. An episode of extreme stress during the pandemic has left me with IBS-C. Apologize for TMI. Before: I ate anything, whenever, in whatever quantity body requested and was consistent 2-3x/day. Now: my body just does not pass stool on its own anymore and I require a prescription for Linzess (highest dosage). Without it, I will bloat to the point of a visibly distended stomach and pass rock hard stool once every 3ish days. Being so bloated causes me to eat less and I shed 15lbs (145lb@6ft). Tried no fodmap diet, heavy on fermented foods for a while, xifaxan (in case of SIBO), prebiotics previously mentioned on HN. I've settled on Linzess daily + a heavy meat diet, with oats for breakfast. Too many vegetables and I get bloated. Most breads as well. Carbonated beverages make me into a balloon.

yosito 4y ago
I might have tried Linzess if it had been offered to me. Most of the doctors I saw probably wouldn't have even prescribed it if I had asked. They seemed set on not helping me. My symptoms were similar to yours. I discovered on my own that digestive enzymes blends with every meal kept things flowing for me. Abdominal massage helped too. But I didn't make real progress until I started working with functional medicine doctors and trying different regimens of supplements with their direction.
- wnolens 4y ago
  Glad you got some relief. It is truly puzzling. My doc stopped at Linzess, of course. Ultimately I don't want to take a pill every day for the rest of my life. Have a pointer to the folks that helped you?
  - yosito 4y ago
    I had one doctor in Boulder who I worked with remotely, and one in Cape Town. I'd say just Google "functional medicine doctors" in your area. Unfortunately, you'll have to evaluate their trustworthiness on your own because most of them are not licensed and a lot of them are full of bullshit.

rswail 4y ago

Just a comment, using the term "mainstream medical system" is a "code smell" for me when discussing medical science. Have you had your gut biota analyzed to see whether there is a basis for your inflammation issues? Yes, "big pharma" has a lot of control, but medical research is not entirely driven by them, particularly outside of the US. It sounds like you remade your gut biota via various paths. "Traditional" medicines are "medicines" when they get through a set of actual medical clinical trials, after which they are called "medicine". The fact that you have given yourself some form of gluten intolerance/allergy does not exactly imply "success" in what you've done so far.

tsol 4y ago
>"Traditional" medicines are "medicines" when they get through a set of actual medical clinical trials, after which they are called "medicine". To be fair, Tylenol almost certainly wouldn't pass clinical trials today. Selling a drug OTC that so easily causes organ(liver) damage? Ridiculous. So would most NSAIDS-- as those cause stomach bleeding even in regular clinical doses. That also would imply that companies had an interest in testing natural treatments that may not sell well
- culi 4y ago
  In addition most traditional medicine is centered around use of whole herbs. Lots of times there's complex processing that goes into it, but it's still something you can often just... grow. Clinical trials are extremely expensive and with the incentive system we have right now it'd make 0 sense for a company to invest in proving that something you can grow in your backyard can help treat something The WHO on the other hand has been investing heavily in traditional and complementary medicine (T&CM) in developing countries as they offer "care that is close to homes, accessible and affordable. It is also culturally acceptable and trusted by large numbers of people". Interestingly, the use and research into traditional medicine is actually increasing worldwide. The US seems to be pretty unique, even compared to developed nations, in how little it values TM. The WHO report linked below points out that 100 million Europeans, 76% of Singapore, and 86% of South Koreans commonly use TM. It also points out interesting research like: > Another recent study indicates that patients whose general practitioner has additional complementary and alternative medicine training have lower health care costs and mortality rates than those who do not. Reduced costs were the outcome of fewer hospital stays and fewer prescription drugs (31) Interestingly, they differentiate TM from CM. TM being a country's actual traditional medicine system and the knowledge passed down across many generations (e.g. Unani, Ayurveda, TCM, etc) and CM being more like "alternative medicine" that is not part of a country's traditional system (anthroposophic medicine, chiropractic, homeopathy, naturopathy, osteopathy, etc; think your aunt trying to sell you essential oils) https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789241506096 https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789241506096

TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago

If you really wanna crank up the woo, my most recent addition to gut health is a good dry needling practitioner, and a good osteopath / chiropractor - preferably one who does both and understands the importance of the vagus nerve. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagus_nerve https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagus_nerve Also good to learn some self-massage for the abdomen, and diaphragmatic breathing too.

fzeroracer 4y ago

Every thread on stuff like this there's always someone that has to step in and claim how their cancer was cured by this one weird trick that doctors hate. Ultimately the odds are that it's masking the symptoms in one way or another. Much like my cousin who went full into traditional medicine and claimed it solved all of her issues that she still has after downing a cocktail of 50 essential oils and whisky.

yosito 4y ago
I get your skepticism. I honestly don't know what the traditional medicine did to my body other than that it took away the physical suffering I was feeling. Did it mask some symptoms? Maybe. The thing is, the mainstream medical system failed to find any problem. They didn't diagnose me with anything or offer me any treatment despite the fact that I felt like I was dying every day. They refused to investigate any possible causes and told me I was not sick. A few mainstream doctors prescribed medicines to relieve my symptoms without addressing the underlying root causes. You seem to think that's a feature of traditional medicine, but it's actually quite common in mainstream medicine as well.