4 ms·

Thanks for sanity. I do understand the specific of the US situation, I’ve leave there since the last decade. In a very touristy city to boot, so a large part o

Thanks for sanity. I do understand the specific of the US situation, I’ve leave there since the last decade. In a very touristy city to boot, so a large part of my social network rely on tips. But the lack of awareness from our US friends to understand that they are the exception, not the norm in that particular regard is a bit disconcerting.

noduerme 4y ago
Tipping is an evolved system. If you go to most countries outside the US, you are not expected to leave a tip. But if you do leave a tip, here is what you get: . You are the first person served, every time you walk in, no matter how crowded the bar is. . You are poured the extra liquor that a bartender is allowed to "spill" . When you bring your date to the restaurant next time, you are treated very well. It is true that in America, these things are lost because everyone is expected to tip. But this is the true point of tipping a good waiter or bartender, to show your appreciation and also to be remembered.
- courgette 4y ago
  Where did you travel ? I had the chance to move around a lot and my social alcoholism made my spend lot of time in seedy places where someone pour out booze. In all those places, paying more money is just bad taste. A way to get what you describe is ( in my personal experience ) - smile - be young and / or attractive - being visibly in distress - being polite and patient in the face of another rude customer - make some jokes, not in English but in the language people speak where you are - have a dog / a kid - show that you have some humors and are not an asshole. With all due respect, paying more and displaying extra wealth is a good way to be classified in the easy to dupe category. In some language due to post WW2 wealth, some folks say “an American” like “do you think I’m American or what ?”
  - noduerme 4y ago
    mmmm... it depends on the country, and the style, so all of the things you say are true. Simply leaving a big tip means nothing. And being an asshole overrides everything - never a good idea. I am also a social alcoholic! Hi! But if you have established communication with your waiter / bartender / blackjack dealer, and you leave them some extra, it is much more appreciated outside the US. Especially if they see you more than a couple times. Whether you are young and attractive or not, although of course that helps. Does losing $5,000 alone on a blackjack table in Prague because you're depressed, and then smiling and tipping your dealer constitute visible distress? I can't say it's always a financially wise strategy.
    - courgette 4y ago
      Hi, I’m sure you would constitute a great bar neighbor :) I just spend a few minute refining my thoughts on tipping outside the US : I would say it has to do with a relationship with money and the power emanating from it. Tipping is not expected in most places; and doing it anyway clearly signal that you have some disposable wealth. You can afford to pay even more than the agreed upon price. There is some “bling” and nouveau-riche aspect to it that will leave people a weird feeling. For instance : Are you trying to bribe them? Do you think they are too poor to function without your patronage? Are the price/money here just a joke to you? And then, it become your edge. You are the guy or gal that pay extra. As opposed to be the funny/sexy/mysterious/resourceful person. AKA : El gringo, l’américain, l’americano. ( I’m one of you now, so I can say it :p ) Being seen that way might be a way to attract the wrong kind of company. I don’t know about casino and hazard games, my passion always has been the dives and the likes. But you do say something important about establishing contact first. That’s a great difference in my book. I still maintain that waving money around FIRST won’t help on the long run. Establishing rapport and discretely paying extra might, sometime, with some people. But being nice and aware of your environment might do just the same.
      - noduerme 4y ago
        Hah. I definitely would buy you a drink. Please see my post below (next to yours). I'm 42. I've lived in a lot of countries. I freaked out and fled America for twelve years after I wrote a novel about a rock band assassinating Dick Cheney during the start of the second Iraq war, and had my server attacked by military sites and my apartment broken into and police going through my trash can. In other countries, I probably, once in awhile, was mistaken for someone who tried to be nouveau-riche because I tipped too much...but I'm basically a working-class guy and I don't think most people thought of me that way if they got to know me. Maybe I am guilty of carrying over the American service industry mentality -- usually people who work/worked as waiters, bartenders or taxi drivers in America tip much more than other people, because we understand how difficult the job is. But of course, you are not trying to buy love with money ... you only show respect. If it is a situation where I feel that someone won't understand it (for example, in some place I've never been before in Vietnam), just the amount of tip that shows the right respect is better than some crazy American-size tip. Hopefully this makes sense. I should stop drinking and go eat. It's been a pleasure to talk ;) [edit] PS: I really enjoyed this term "social alcoholism". Did you ever go to Granada?
- adastra22 4y ago
  You still get that in America if you tip more than others.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    That too. Although now it's like 35% to get that kind of consideration.
    - courgette 4y ago
      Hi, I’m your neighbor from the other thread. Just above. I think the issue in your approach is the transactional aspect of it. “I payed more, now be more nice to me” At their core, people don’t want to be owned this way.
    - noduerme 4y ago
      @courgette, I can't reply directly but I'd say (as a longtime service industry worker) it has to go along with genuine respect from the customer, and you have to like them. It has to be a true gesture. It's not as transactional as I'm making it sound when I'm trying to explain it to people who don't tip, never tipped, and don't come from cultures where tipping is normal. Tipping is part of the respect you pay to the person who's serving you. Equally important is looking them in the eye, thanking them, being a polite guest. You'll get no argument from me that simply tipping is not enough to buy someone special treatment. [edit] also, although I'm not service industry anymore, many of my friends are; so it's pretty understood that no one likes an asshole who just thinks they can "buy" someone with tips. That wasn't the point. Tips are necessary because I really do appreciate what servers are doing.
      - courgette 4y ago
        Yep, I got your point and I think you drove it home. I mistaken you for something else.
        noduerme 4y ago
        Thanks, and cheers - to social alcoholism ;)
- tallanvor 4y ago
  You'll get that in some places, sure, but not everywhere. In Norway if people see waiters/bartenders/servers treating other people better, they'll stop going there because the idea is that everyone should be treated equally. And bars are highly regulated - pouring stronger drinks than allowed is a quick way to get your liquor license revoked.
  - lukas099 4y ago
    > pouring stronger drinks than allowed is a quick way to get your liquor license revoked. How is this detected by the state?
  - noduerme 4y ago
    Maybe if it is regulated to such a tight degree; in American bars it's understood there will be "spillage" and bartenders are even encouraged to keep good customers coming back. Generally speaking, if you tip consistently well in most cities in America, and know your bartender, they will make 1 out of 4 drinks free for you or they will otherwise find a way to pour you strong drinks. They know how much they have to spill and they can justify it for a good customer. Only in Las Vegas casinos is this ineffectual, because the liquor bottles are all measured out electronically.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  > But if you do leave a tip, here is what you get I can assure you that an American tip here will give you a weird look and get you to be treated like a tourist which is not something you wish.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    Where is "here"? (And what is an acceptable tip?)
    - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
      Here is France. Rounding up to the euro or nearest bill if it’s a large sum is considered a nice gesture but is not usual nor expected. If you tip 15%, people will wonder what’s wrong with you and don’t understand why you flaunt your money (or assume you are American).
      - 1123581321 4y ago
        France is unusual both in its service culture and its attitude toward non-assimilated Americans.

noduerme 4y ago

Tipping is an evolved system. If you go to most countries outside the US, you are not expected to leave a tip. But if you do leave a tip, here is what you get: . You are the first person served, every time you walk in, no matter how crowded the bar is. . You are poured the extra liquor that a bartender is allowed to "spill" . When you bring your date to the restaurant next time, you are treated very well. It is true that in America, these things are lost because everyone is expected to tip. But this is the true point of tipping a good waiter or bartender, to show your appreciation and also to be remembered.

courgette 4y ago
Where did you travel ? I had the chance to move around a lot and my social alcoholism made my spend lot of time in seedy places where someone pour out booze. In all those places, paying more money is just bad taste. A way to get what you describe is ( in my personal experience ) - smile - be young and / or attractive - being visibly in distress - being polite and patient in the face of another rude customer - make some jokes, not in English but in the language people speak where you are - have a dog / a kid - show that you have some humors and are not an asshole. With all due respect, paying more and displaying extra wealth is a good way to be classified in the easy to dupe category. In some language due to post WW2 wealth, some folks say “an American” like “do you think I’m American or what ?”
- noduerme 4y ago
  mmmm... it depends on the country, and the style, so all of the things you say are true. Simply leaving a big tip means nothing. And being an asshole overrides everything - never a good idea. I am also a social alcoholic! Hi! But if you have established communication with your waiter / bartender / blackjack dealer, and you leave them some extra, it is much more appreciated outside the US. Especially if they see you more than a couple times. Whether you are young and attractive or not, although of course that helps. Does losing $5,000 alone on a blackjack table in Prague because you're depressed, and then smiling and tipping your dealer constitute visible distress? I can't say it's always a financially wise strategy.
  - courgette 4y ago
    Hi, I’m sure you would constitute a great bar neighbor :) I just spend a few minute refining my thoughts on tipping outside the US : I would say it has to do with a relationship with money and the power emanating from it. Tipping is not expected in most places; and doing it anyway clearly signal that you have some disposable wealth. You can afford to pay even more than the agreed upon price. There is some “bling” and nouveau-riche aspect to it that will leave people a weird feeling. For instance : Are you trying to bribe them? Do you think they are too poor to function without your patronage? Are the price/money here just a joke to you? And then, it become your edge. You are the guy or gal that pay extra. As opposed to be the funny/sexy/mysterious/resourceful person. AKA : El gringo, l’américain, l’americano. ( I’m one of you now, so I can say it :p ) Being seen that way might be a way to attract the wrong kind of company. I don’t know about casino and hazard games, my passion always has been the dives and the likes. But you do say something important about establishing contact first. That’s a great difference in my book. I still maintain that waving money around FIRST won’t help on the long run. Establishing rapport and discretely paying extra might, sometime, with some people. But being nice and aware of your environment might do just the same.
    - noduerme 4y ago
      Hah. I definitely would buy you a drink. Please see my post below (next to yours). I'm 42. I've lived in a lot of countries. I freaked out and fled America for twelve years after I wrote a novel about a rock band assassinating Dick Cheney during the start of the second Iraq war, and had my server attacked by military sites and my apartment broken into and police going through my trash can. In other countries, I probably, once in awhile, was mistaken for someone who tried to be nouveau-riche because I tipped too much...but I'm basically a working-class guy and I don't think most people thought of me that way if they got to know me. Maybe I am guilty of carrying over the American service industry mentality -- usually people who work/worked as waiters, bartenders or taxi drivers in America tip much more than other people, because we understand how difficult the job is. But of course, you are not trying to buy love with money ... you only show respect. If it is a situation where I feel that someone won't understand it (for example, in some place I've never been before in Vietnam), just the amount of tip that shows the right respect is better than some crazy American-size tip. Hopefully this makes sense. I should stop drinking and go eat. It's been a pleasure to talk ;) [edit] PS: I really enjoyed this term "social alcoholism". Did you ever go to Granada?
adastra22 4y ago
You still get that in America if you tip more than others.
- noduerme 4y ago
  That too. Although now it's like 35% to get that kind of consideration.
  - courgette 4y ago
    Hi, I’m your neighbor from the other thread. Just above. I think the issue in your approach is the transactional aspect of it. “I payed more, now be more nice to me” At their core, people don’t want to be owned this way.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    @courgette, I can't reply directly but I'd say (as a longtime service industry worker) it has to go along with genuine respect from the customer, and you have to like them. It has to be a true gesture. It's not as transactional as I'm making it sound when I'm trying to explain it to people who don't tip, never tipped, and don't come from cultures where tipping is normal. Tipping is part of the respect you pay to the person who's serving you. Equally important is looking them in the eye, thanking them, being a polite guest. You'll get no argument from me that simply tipping is not enough to buy someone special treatment. [edit] also, although I'm not service industry anymore, many of my friends are; so it's pretty understood that no one likes an asshole who just thinks they can "buy" someone with tips. That wasn't the point. Tips are necessary because I really do appreciate what servers are doing.
    - courgette 4y ago
      Yep, I got your point and I think you drove it home. I mistaken you for something else.
      - noduerme 4y ago
        Thanks, and cheers - to social alcoholism ;)
tallanvor 4y ago
You'll get that in some places, sure, but not everywhere. In Norway if people see waiters/bartenders/servers treating other people better, they'll stop going there because the idea is that everyone should be treated equally. And bars are highly regulated - pouring stronger drinks than allowed is a quick way to get your liquor license revoked.
- lukas099 4y ago
  > pouring stronger drinks than allowed is a quick way to get your liquor license revoked. How is this detected by the state?
- noduerme 4y ago
  Maybe if it is regulated to such a tight degree; in American bars it's understood there will be "spillage" and bartenders are even encouraged to keep good customers coming back. Generally speaking, if you tip consistently well in most cities in America, and know your bartender, they will make 1 out of 4 drinks free for you or they will otherwise find a way to pour you strong drinks. They know how much they have to spill and they can justify it for a good customer. Only in Las Vegas casinos is this ineffectual, because the liquor bottles are all measured out electronically.
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
> But if you do leave a tip, here is what you get I can assure you that an American tip here will give you a weird look and get you to be treated like a tourist which is not something you wish.
- noduerme 4y ago
  Where is "here"? (And what is an acceptable tip?)
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    Here is France. Rounding up to the euro or nearest bill if it’s a large sum is considered a nice gesture but is not usual nor expected. If you tip 15%, people will wonder what’s wrong with you and don’t understand why you flaunt your money (or assume you are American).
    - 1123581321 4y ago
      France is unusual both in its service culture and its attitude toward non-assimilated Americans.