7 ms·

What about them? Have you been there? Noticed anything problematic?

by argsnd 4y ago

Brigand 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime_in_Germa...
- CBarkleyU 4y ago
  Please keep to Reddit with comments like that. If you don't have anything to contribute other than the most basic things, just keep it to yourself.
  - dsq 4y ago
    Linking to a wikipedia page? What's the problem with that?
    - slaw 4y ago
      Science is racist.
- jdiez17 4y ago
  Have you read the article? Until recent years, "there is no relationship between the scale of refugee inflow and the crime rate". Now there's a (in my opinion) small increase in the probability that a crime is perpetrated by a foreigner, but this seems to be _mostly_ related to the demographics of immigrants: > This was attributed by criminologists to the subgroup consisting of men aged 16–29 is disproportionately large at 34% of the total [number of immigrants] and that young males are overrepresented as criminals in all parts of the world, rather than to their ethnic origin. It seems pretty clear to me that the benefits of immigration outweigh this, as long as the total amount of crime stays at a low level, which subjectively seems to be the case.
  - cm2187 4y ago
    If you don't think immigration is the source of the majority of the crime in europe, I suggest you watch any documentary on French prisons and look at the inmate. Now there might be many reasons for that, poverty probably plays, etc. But the outcome is fairly obvious.
    - jdiez17 4y ago
      I don't know about France but it definitely is not the case in Germany.
      - cm2187 4y ago
        I am not familiar with Germany but the numbers quoted here seem to suggest it is the case there also: https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/13711/germany-immigrants-prisons https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/13711/germany-immigrants-...
        wink 4y ago
        > Gatestone Institute is a far-right think tank known for publishing anti-Muslim articles. From Wikipedia. So no, not even gonna read that article.
        cm2187 4y ago
        Better stay in one's bubble
        mrguyorama 4y ago
        Says the guy literally parroting the narrative of a far-right, anti-muslim think tank.
        cm2187 4y ago
        I don't mind reading all sort of opinions, won't burn my eyes. "I won't read it because it is written by people from a different political persuasion" is a very strange statement to make, and the very definition of a bubble.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bsaul 4y ago
There are huge problems with immigration in France and it's been a growing problem for the past 40 years. But contrarely to what people think, crime isn't IMHO the worst of them. The worst is the feeling that the cultural norm of the country, as well as its "visual" identity has shifted from a european country to a (mostly) african one ( and please read the rest before making hasty judgments on what i'm saying). To understand the problem, imagine going to a few remote rural areas in japan in 40 years and each time only see tall 7 feet blond and blue eyes people, speaking swedish and not finding sushis or ramen anywhere. I like all cultures, and i believe there's great things everywhere, but that's why i'm also a bit sad to see "traditional" France (whatever that means) disappear.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  Being reverse colonized must really suck. Almost as bad as the people who were originally trampled by French boots.
  - ztrww 4y ago
    all of those countries must have been utopian wonderlands before the French came…
    - cm2187 4y ago
      ...and after they left.
  - bsaul 4y ago
    i'm not sure if your comment means you're looking forward to support the "anti-colonizers" side in a potential upcoming civil war ?
- wikfwikf 4y ago
  "the cultural norm of the country, as well as its "visual" identity has shifted from a european country to a (mostly) african one" This is delusional, and yes, I did read the rest of your comment.
nivenkos 4y ago
I live in Sweden and there was a bombing outside my apartment last week due to gang conflicts.
raverbashing 4y ago
"Haven't noticed anything problematic" is a naive take Nothing to worry about in Rotherham Nothing to worry about in Parisian Banlieues https://www.lepoint.fr/education/laicite-pres-d-un-enseignant-sur-deux-s-autocensure-selon-une-etude-06-01-2021-2408422_3584.php https://www.lepoint.fr/education/laicite-pres-d-un-enseignan... Of course there's a difference between bringing people with a degree for example and letting any kind of migration happen (which for the most part wasn't the case during the migrations of the XXth century to the US) This is not to say immigration doesn't have its advantages and that criminal issues are not only due to recent arrivals (quite the contrary)
spaniard89277 4y ago
I live in Spain and go to France relatively often. In France the problems are quite severe by this point. It's not only in Paris and Marselle, is also beginning in other places too. This means insecurity, gang violence, threats, etc. There's also a cultural aspect to it. It used to be just extreme-right speech but IMO It's time to stop looking elsewhere and face the problem. In Spain it's only insecurity, and controlled to a certain degree, but in Barcelona is noticeable, and in Madrid is beginning to bein noticed. Is nowhere the level of France but it's definitely growing. A lot of people is looking up north and wondering if we should take this more seriously, so we don't end up like our northern neighbours.
modo_mario 4y ago
I'll only speak about Brussels since I'm Belgian. There's a serious unemployment issue in Brussels. Brussels has more foreign born people than local born and definitely more than ethnic Belgians. The thing is it's not much tied to people born in the EU as per study. Those tend to come for the jobs requiring higher eductation for the EU, NATO or some international company or the like. They contribute to varying degrees (NATO folks are often tax exempt for example) but i don't think anyone wants them gone or cares too much. It's not much tied to locals either. It's tied to the people that are typically the focus of anti migration parties which typically are non eu migrants. They often don't have the education that the city demands nor the language skills (It's pretty damn easy to get a job if you speak the 2 national languages perfectly but don't have a degree for example). All in all they don't really fit the niche of sustaining the social security net as is often brought up as the core advantage except for the fact that they have more children which is tied to a brand of persistent social conservatism ....which isn't really wanted either. All in all it feels like immigration is happening too fast to avoid this group setting itself appart in various ways leading to (self)-segregation and probably persistent social strife down the line.
huntoa 4y ago
Yes, here are some examples from Berlin: • Iraqi brutally rapes & tortures/torments 14yo and 21yo [1] • 11yo children (Afghan and Syrian) raping 10yo [1b] • Afghan Islamist stabs woman (unprovoked) -> half paralyzed [2] • organized crime (55% suspects are non-German, 5% unidentified) [3] • Islamist terror attack [4] • violence in public open-air baths, mass brawl [5] • primary school pupil threatens teacher with beheading [6] comparing it to [7] • honor killings [8] • > 1 billion euros fraud alone with covid test centers by submission of false claims, many operated by Turks and criminal clans (non-Germans) [1] https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/berlin-frauen-ins-auto-gezerrt-und-vergewaltigt-dreizehneinhalb-jahre-haft-a-e7d26dc5-a01e-407a-a72e-13a0f88e025f https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/berlin-frauen-ins-aut... [1b] https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/berlin-grundschueler-vergewaltigen-zehnjaehrigen-entsetzen-in-der-hauptstadt-a-1226153.html https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/berlin-grundschueler-... [2] https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/2022/04/hobbygaertnerin-angeklagter-angriff-messer-lebensgefaehrlich-verletzt-prozess-wilmersdorf-berlin.html https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/2022/04/hobbygaertneri... [3]https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/JahresberichteUndLagebilder/OrganisierteKriminalitaet/organisierteKriminalitaetBundeslagebild2021.html?nn=27988 https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/Jah... [4] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschlag_auf_den_Berliner_Weihnachtsmarkt_an_der_Ged%C3%A4chtniskirche https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschlag_auf_den_Berliner_Weih... [5] https://twitter.com/austausch_info/status/1538813556547788800?s=20 https://twitter.com/austausch_info/status/153881355654778880... [6] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/extremismus-berlin-muslimischer-schueler-droht-lehrerin-mit-enthauptung-dpa.urn-newsml-dpa-com-20090101-201111-99-294736 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/extremismus-berlin-musli... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty [8] https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/kriminalitaet/berlin-frau-von-ihren-bruedern-wegen-gekraenkter-ehre-getoetet-17473397.html https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/kriminalitaet/berli... [9] https://archive.is/PNDHS https://archive.is/PNDHS , https://archive.is/SnyJE https://archive.is/SnyJE

What about them? Have you been there? Noticed anything problematic?

by argsnd 4y ago

What about them? Have you been there? Noticed anything problematic?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime_in_Germa...

CBarkleyU 4y ago
Please keep to Reddit with comments like that. If you don't have anything to contribute other than the most basic things, just keep it to yourself.
- dsq 4y ago
  Linking to a wikipedia page? What's the problem with that?
  - slaw 4y ago
    Science is racist.
jdiez17 4y ago
Have you read the article? Until recent years, "there is no relationship between the scale of refugee inflow and the crime rate". Now there's a (in my opinion) small increase in the probability that a crime is perpetrated by a foreigner, but this seems to be _mostly_ related to the demographics of immigrants: > This was attributed by criminologists to the subgroup consisting of men aged 16–29 is disproportionately large at 34% of the total [number of immigrants] and that young males are overrepresented as criminals in all parts of the world, rather than to their ethnic origin. It seems pretty clear to me that the benefits of immigration outweigh this, as long as the total amount of crime stays at a low level, which subjectively seems to be the case.
- cm2187 4y ago
  If you don't think immigration is the source of the majority of the crime in europe, I suggest you watch any documentary on French prisons and look at the inmate. Now there might be many reasons for that, poverty probably plays, etc. But the outcome is fairly obvious.
  - jdiez17 4y ago
    I don't know about France but it definitely is not the case in Germany.
    - cm2187 4y ago
      I am not familiar with Germany but the numbers quoted here seem to suggest it is the case there also: https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/13711/germany-immigrants-prisons https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/13711/germany-immigrants-...
      - wink 4y ago
        > Gatestone Institute is a far-right think tank known for publishing anti-Muslim articles. From Wikipedia. So no, not even gonna read that article.
        cm2187 4y ago
        Better stay in one's bubble
        mrguyorama 4y ago
        Says the guy literally parroting the narrative of a far-right, anti-muslim think tank.
        cm2187 4y ago
        I don't mind reading all sort of opinions, won't burn my eyes. "I won't read it because it is written by people from a different political persuasion" is a very strange statement to make, and the very definition of a bubble.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bsaul 4y ago

There are huge problems with immigration in France and it's been a growing problem for the past 40 years. But contrarely to what people think, crime isn't IMHO the worst of them. The worst is the feeling that the cultural norm of the country, as well as its "visual" identity has shifted from a european country to a (mostly) african one ( and please read the rest before making hasty judgments on what i'm saying). To understand the problem, imagine going to a few remote rural areas in japan in 40 years and each time only see tall 7 feet blond and blue eyes people, speaking swedish and not finding sushis or ramen anywhere. I like all cultures, and i believe there's great things everywhere, but that's why i'm also a bit sad to see "traditional" France (whatever that means) disappear.

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
Being reverse colonized must really suck. Almost as bad as the people who were originally trampled by French boots.
- ztrww 4y ago
  all of those countries must have been utopian wonderlands before the French came…
  - cm2187 4y ago
    ...and after they left.
- bsaul 4y ago
  i'm not sure if your comment means you're looking forward to support the "anti-colonizers" side in a potential upcoming civil war ?
wikfwikf 4y ago
"the cultural norm of the country, as well as its "visual" identity has shifted from a european country to a (mostly) african one" This is delusional, and yes, I did read the rest of your comment.

nivenkos 4y ago

I live in Sweden and there was a bombing outside my apartment last week due to gang conflicts.

raverbashing 4y ago

"Haven't noticed anything problematic" is a naive take Nothing to worry about in Rotherham Nothing to worry about in Parisian Banlieues https://www.lepoint.fr/education/laicite-pres-d-un-enseignant-sur-deux-s-autocensure-selon-une-etude-06-01-2021-2408422_3584.php https://www.lepoint.fr/education/laicite-pres-d-un-enseignan... Of course there's a difference between bringing people with a degree for example and letting any kind of migration happen (which for the most part wasn't the case during the migrations of the XXth century to the US) This is not to say immigration doesn't have its advantages and that criminal issues are not only due to recent arrivals (quite the contrary)

spaniard89277 4y ago

I live in Spain and go to France relatively often. In France the problems are quite severe by this point. It's not only in Paris and Marselle, is also beginning in other places too. This means insecurity, gang violence, threats, etc. There's also a cultural aspect to it. It used to be just extreme-right speech but IMO It's time to stop looking elsewhere and face the problem. In Spain it's only insecurity, and controlled to a certain degree, but in Barcelona is noticeable, and in Madrid is beginning to bein noticed. Is nowhere the level of France but it's definitely growing. A lot of people is looking up north and wondering if we should take this more seriously, so we don't end up like our northern neighbours.

modo_mario 4y ago

I'll only speak about Brussels since I'm Belgian. There's a serious unemployment issue in Brussels. Brussels has more foreign born people than local born and definitely more than ethnic Belgians. The thing is it's not much tied to people born in the EU as per study. Those tend to come for the jobs requiring higher eductation for the EU, NATO or some international company or the like. They contribute to varying degrees (NATO folks are often tax exempt for example) but i don't think anyone wants them gone or cares too much. It's not much tied to locals either. It's tied to the people that are typically the focus of anti migration parties which typically are non eu migrants. They often don't have the education that the city demands nor the language skills (It's pretty damn easy to get a job if you speak the 2 national languages perfectly but don't have a degree for example). All in all they don't really fit the niche of sustaining the social security net as is often brought up as the core advantage except for the fact that they have more children which is tied to a brand of persistent social conservatism ....which isn't really wanted either. All in all it feels like immigration is happening too fast to avoid this group setting itself appart in various ways leading to (self)-segregation and probably persistent social strife down the line.

huntoa 4y ago

Yes, here are some examples from Berlin: • Iraqi brutally rapes & tortures/torments 14yo and 21yo [1] • 11yo children (Afghan and Syrian) raping 10yo [1b] • Afghan Islamist stabs woman (unprovoked) -> half paralyzed [2] • organized crime (55% suspects are non-German, 5% unidentified) [3] • Islamist terror attack [4] • violence in public open-air baths, mass brawl [5] • primary school pupil threatens teacher with beheading [6] comparing it to [7] • honor killings [8] • > 1 billion euros fraud alone with covid test centers by submission of false claims, many operated by Turks and criminal clans (non-Germans) [1] https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/berlin-frauen-ins-auto-gezerrt-und-vergewaltigt-dreizehneinhalb-jahre-haft-a-e7d26dc5-a01e-407a-a72e-13a0f88e025f https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/berlin-frauen-ins-aut... [1b] https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/berlin-grundschueler-vergewaltigen-zehnjaehrigen-entsetzen-in-der-hauptstadt-a-1226153.html https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/berlin-grundschueler-... [2] https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/2022/04/hobbygaertnerin-angeklagter-angriff-messer-lebensgefaehrlich-verletzt-prozess-wilmersdorf-berlin.html https://www.rbb24.de/panorama/beitrag/2022/04/hobbygaertneri... [3]https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/JahresberichteUndLagebilder/OrganisierteKriminalitaet/organisierteKriminalitaetBundeslagebild2021.html?nn=27988 https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/Jah... [4] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschlag_auf_den_Berliner_Weihnachtsmarkt_an_der_Ged%C3%A4chtniskirche https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschlag_auf_den_Berliner_Weih... [5] https://twitter.com/austausch_info/status/1538813556547788800?s=20 https://twitter.com/austausch_info/status/153881355654778880... [6] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/extremismus-berlin-muslimischer-schueler-droht-lehrerin-mit-enthauptung-dpa.urn-newsml-dpa-com-20090101-201111-99-294736 https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/extremismus-berlin-musli... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty [8] https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/kriminalitaet/berlin-frau-von-ihren-bruedern-wegen-gekraenkter-ehre-getoetet-17473397.html https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/kriminalitaet/berli... [9] https://archive.is/PNDHS https://archive.is/PNDHS , https://archive.is/SnyJE https://archive.is/SnyJE