4 ms·

I go to a bar that is cashless and still see people have to leave because they only had cash (or didn't want to use their card). To play devil's advocate, cred

I go to a bar that is cashless and still see people have to leave because they only had cash (or didn't want to use their card). To play devil's advocate, credit cards are another way to get tracked, a great way for a duopoly of companies to skim 1-3% off the economy, a way to be analyzed by the merchant, a way to get more explicitly prompted to pay a 20% tip, and more hassle than handing a $5 for a $4.73 coffee and walking off. "Imagine these magical tokens with monetary value that I could instantly transfer to a merchant without waiting for my bill to come back!" Going cashless only benefits the owner for not having to deal with counting cash, with potential worker theft, and (slim concern) robbery - things that, depending on the area and the market, are theoretical. At the same time, I think it's neat that street performers and buskers have QR codes to Venmo. I think everyone should accept everything.

RulerOf 4y ago
>I go to a bar that is cashless and still see people have to leave because they only had cash (or didn't want to use their card). I wouldn't patronize such a place because I'm not comfortable surrendering my credit card for an indeterminate amount of time, nor having any idea of how much money I've spent until I'm about to leave.
bigmattystyles 4y ago
In defense of cashless, there is so much you don’t have to worry about as the business owner; yes the credit companies take a somewhat exhorbitant percentage but you don’t have to worry about having thousands of dollars in cash at the end of the day, don’t have to worry about employees skimming or making mistakes like coming in short. It also automates a ton of the accounting. So there are some benefits.
- ovao 4y ago
  On the other hand, you have to worry about disputes and chargebacks, of which you can only accumulate so many with your processor, and which also tend to have unfavorable outcomes for merchants. The pros may still outweigh the cons, but it’s not all roses with cards.
  - lmz 4y ago
    Disputes and chargebacks for in person payments especially for food/drinks immediately consumed would be rather rare.
    - ovao 4y ago
      I can’t put any numbers to this, but yes, it’s probably the case that as the ATV increases the dispute rate also increases, and probably particularly rare in the food service industry. In my experience it can be rare even with an ATV in the thousands of dollars, but it’s still (unfortunately) a non-zero risk.
    - TylerE 4y ago
      It’s the card present/card not present (ie online, phone, etc) distinction right?
      - lmz 4y ago
        Yes - it's hard to automate because it's offline, it's higher risk because you have to show your face, it's usually low value products, and if there's any issues people usually go back to the cashier and then void the transaction - removing a large part of refund costs.
seanmcdirmid 4y ago
> and (slim concern) robbery - things that, depending on the area and the market, are theoretical. If your bar is being hit every week for robbery, the chance is no longer theoretical or a slim concern. Not sure about that bar, but marijuana dispensaries here get hit weekly because they are a cash only business. If the feds allowed it, they would go card-only very quickly.
mmsimanga 4y ago
> a great way for a duopoly of companies to skim 1-3% off the economy I mean by all means use your card everywhere but I think we should make a concerted effort to keep our options open.
- seb1204 4y ago
  I am a user that is drawn in by the convenience of paying with card or tap or phone. But I am not advocating to abandon cash or the cashless society.
kelnos 4y ago
> I go to a bar that is cashless and still see people have to leave because they only had cash (or didn't want to use their card). And I see the same issue when I go to places that only take cash: people have to leave because they only have a credit card. Or they pony up some ridiculous fee to take cash from the ATM in the bar. > credit cards are another way to get tracked I personally don't care too much about this, but I can understand why some might. > a great way for a duopoly of companies to skim 1-3% off the economy Put another way: a way for a duopoly of companies to get paid for providing a useful service to both businesses and customers. Now, you can argue that if there was more competition, fees would be lower, and I wouldn't disagree with that. But it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that the card networks are just taking and not providing any value. > a way to be analyzed by the merchant Basically the same as your tracking argument. Some care, some don't. > a way to get more explicitly prompted to pay a 20% tip Shrug? That's life? I feel pressured to tip regardless of how I pay. At least with the POS terminal I don't have to do math. > and more hassle than handing a $5 for a $4.73 coffee and walking off. It's pretty rare that I see a bill for an even amount of money. It's way more hassle to have to dig through my pockets for exact change, which I never have, so in reality I'm passing over a larger amount and waiting for the cashier to make change for me. And then I have to decide how much of that I want to leave as a tip. That's certainly more hassle than just tapping a card and a tip amount, and walking off.
- cooperadymas 4y ago
  Your argument boils down to, I don't care about your problems, and they don't bother me, so they are wrong.
- unethical_ban 4y ago
  Interesting that you left off the past line of my post in your otherwise thorough reply.

RulerOf 4y ago

>I go to a bar that is cashless and still see people have to leave because they only had cash (or didn't want to use their card). I wouldn't patronize such a place because I'm not comfortable surrendering my credit card for an indeterminate amount of time, nor having any idea of how much money I've spent until I'm about to leave.

bigmattystyles 4y ago

In defense of cashless, there is so much you don’t have to worry about as the business owner; yes the credit companies take a somewhat exhorbitant percentage but you don’t have to worry about having thousands of dollars in cash at the end of the day, don’t have to worry about employees skimming or making mistakes like coming in short. It also automates a ton of the accounting. So there are some benefits.

ovao 4y ago
On the other hand, you have to worry about disputes and chargebacks, of which you can only accumulate so many with your processor, and which also tend to have unfavorable outcomes for merchants. The pros may still outweigh the cons, but it’s not all roses with cards.
- lmz 4y ago
  Disputes and chargebacks for in person payments especially for food/drinks immediately consumed would be rather rare.
  - ovao 4y ago
    I can’t put any numbers to this, but yes, it’s probably the case that as the ATV increases the dispute rate also increases, and probably particularly rare in the food service industry. In my experience it can be rare even with an ATV in the thousands of dollars, but it’s still (unfortunately) a non-zero risk.
  - TylerE 4y ago
    It’s the card present/card not present (ie online, phone, etc) distinction right?
    - lmz 4y ago
      Yes - it's hard to automate because it's offline, it's higher risk because you have to show your face, it's usually low value products, and if there's any issues people usually go back to the cashier and then void the transaction - removing a large part of refund costs.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

> and (slim concern) robbery - things that, depending on the area and the market, are theoretical. If your bar is being hit every week for robbery, the chance is no longer theoretical or a slim concern. Not sure about that bar, but marijuana dispensaries here get hit weekly because they are a cash only business. If the feds allowed it, they would go card-only very quickly.

mmsimanga 4y ago

> a great way for a duopoly of companies to skim 1-3% off the economy I mean by all means use your card everywhere but I think we should make a concerted effort to keep our options open.

seb1204 4y ago
I am a user that is drawn in by the convenience of paying with card or tap or phone. But I am not advocating to abandon cash or the cashless society.

kelnos 4y ago

> I go to a bar that is cashless and still see people have to leave because they only had cash (or didn't want to use their card). And I see the same issue when I go to places that only take cash: people have to leave because they only have a credit card. Or they pony up some ridiculous fee to take cash from the ATM in the bar. > credit cards are another way to get tracked I personally don't care too much about this, but I can understand why some might. > a great way for a duopoly of companies to skim 1-3% off the economy Put another way: a way for a duopoly of companies to get paid for providing a useful service to both businesses and customers. Now, you can argue that if there was more competition, fees would be lower, and I wouldn't disagree with that. But it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that the card networks are just taking and not providing any value. > a way to be analyzed by the merchant Basically the same as your tracking argument. Some care, some don't. > a way to get more explicitly prompted to pay a 20% tip Shrug? That's life? I feel pressured to tip regardless of how I pay. At least with the POS terminal I don't have to do math. > and more hassle than handing a $5 for a $4.73 coffee and walking off. It's pretty rare that I see a bill for an even amount of money. It's way more hassle to have to dig through my pockets for exact change, which I never have, so in reality I'm passing over a larger amount and waiting for the cashier to make change for me. And then I have to decide how much of that I want to leave as a tip. That's certainly more hassle than just tapping a card and a tip amount, and walking off.

cooperadymas 4y ago
Your argument boils down to, I don't care about your problems, and they don't bother me, so they are wrong.
unethical_ban 4y ago
Interesting that you left off the past line of my post in your otherwise thorough reply.