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The lockdowns and other societal effects of Covid could also play a role. Alcoholism is way up, along with other substance abuse issues. Shutting down office cu

by lumost 4y ago

The lockdowns and other societal effects of Covid could also play a role. Alcoholism is way up, along with other substance abuse issues. Shutting down office culture removed a substantial fixture of individuals social lives. Rather than supporting wfh - many companies forced new hires to move to cities just to work in tiny apartments where they know no one. It’ll take ages for the statisticians, sociologists, and economists to sort out exactly what was happening between 2020 and 20XX when society settles down.

bee_rider 4y ago
That leftmost X is like the most crushing single digit replacement possible, haha.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> other societal effects of Covid could also play a role There’s also a large section of the population that’s now generally anti-vax and anti-medicine. (I’ve seen it in my family.)
- grepfru_it 4y ago
  I can fully understand how one could turn against the Covid vaccine during this tumultuous time, but How did Covid cause your family to become anti medicine?
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    They lost trust in the medical establishment. A daily diet of pseudoscience will do that.
    - Kenji 4y ago
      [dead]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
newsclues 4y ago
Given the highly politicized nature of all this I’m unsure the truth will ever be widely known.
- spookthesunset 4y ago
  It will be known. It just might take a generation or two before it is widely accepted. And believe me, history will not look fondly to those who did all this. Our Covid mitigations were at best modern incantations of witchcraft or rain dances.
jhugo 4y ago
I was saying this early in the pandemic when lockdowns started to be proposed, and being aggressively shot down for it, even here on HN. I think once we have a more full accounting of the true cost of the lockdowns, there will be no controversy about this. Missed medical screenings & care, delayed "non-urgent" medical procedures, higher rates of alcoholism & other substance abuse, less community cohesion and myriad other effects are surely far worse for society as a whole in countries that chose lockdowns than the direct impact of COVID was in countries that didn't.
- komali2 4y ago
  Perhaps because it was always possible to do tiered lockdowns in a way that avoided these negative side effects but the only criticism I ever saw was "lockdown bad because covid is fake, don't get vaccinated." I'm not going to poke through your post history but on HN I never saw a good faith solutions-oriented criticism to lockdown measures. From what I saw of the rest of the world COVID lockdown responses were really weird, though. In Taiwan we also had lockdowns but they seemed quite sensible (though parts were absurd). For example, indoor dining was closed, but restaurants were able to stay open and serve food to go, or, offer outdoor dining if they could (this is rare in taiwan though, most just did to-go). That's a sensible covid measure as incidents of outside spread are rare and people can spread out easily outside, plus we have parks on like, every corner, so it's not a big deal. Public transit stayed open, but we had a mask policy, not that it was necessary since the population was happy to wear masks and continues to do so in situations not legally required here even today. So I don't think we'll have as bad of lockdown side effects as other countries, cause people were still going out and about, just, sensibly. (some of the stupid policies were the closing of outside exercise equipment. So dumb.)
  - User23 4y ago
    > the only criticism I ever saw was "lockdown bad because covid is fake, don't get vaccinated." I would encourage you to practice the intellectual humility required to consider the possibility the issue here was your lack of exposure to anything other than straw men.

by lumost 4y ago

bee_rider 4y ago

That leftmost X is like the most crushing single digit replacement possible, haha.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> other societal effects of Covid could also play a role There’s also a large section of the population that’s now generally anti-vax and anti-medicine. (I’ve seen it in my family.)

grepfru_it 4y ago
I can fully understand how one could turn against the Covid vaccine during this tumultuous time, but How did Covid cause your family to become anti medicine?
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  They lost trust in the medical establishment. A daily diet of pseudoscience will do that.
  - Kenji 4y ago
    [dead]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

newsclues 4y ago

Given the highly politicized nature of all this I’m unsure the truth will ever be widely known.

spookthesunset 4y ago
It will be known. It just might take a generation or two before it is widely accepted. And believe me, history will not look fondly to those who did all this. Our Covid mitigations were at best modern incantations of witchcraft or rain dances.

jhugo 4y ago

I was saying this early in the pandemic when lockdowns started to be proposed, and being aggressively shot down for it, even here on HN. I think once we have a more full accounting of the true cost of the lockdowns, there will be no controversy about this. Missed medical screenings & care, delayed "non-urgent" medical procedures, higher rates of alcoholism & other substance abuse, less community cohesion and myriad other effects are surely far worse for society as a whole in countries that chose lockdowns than the direct impact of COVID was in countries that didn't.

komali2 4y ago
Perhaps because it was always possible to do tiered lockdowns in a way that avoided these negative side effects but the only criticism I ever saw was "lockdown bad because covid is fake, don't get vaccinated." I'm not going to poke through your post history but on HN I never saw a good faith solutions-oriented criticism to lockdown measures. From what I saw of the rest of the world COVID lockdown responses were really weird, though. In Taiwan we also had lockdowns but they seemed quite sensible (though parts were absurd). For example, indoor dining was closed, but restaurants were able to stay open and serve food to go, or, offer outdoor dining if they could (this is rare in taiwan though, most just did to-go). That's a sensible covid measure as incidents of outside spread are rare and people can spread out easily outside, plus we have parks on like, every corner, so it's not a big deal. Public transit stayed open, but we had a mask policy, not that it was necessary since the population was happy to wear masks and continues to do so in situations not legally required here even today. So I don't think we'll have as bad of lockdown side effects as other countries, cause people were still going out and about, just, sensibly. (some of the stupid policies were the closing of outside exercise equipment. So dumb.)
- User23 4y ago
  > the only criticism I ever saw was "lockdown bad because covid is fake, don't get vaccinated." I would encourage you to practice the intellectual humility required to consider the possibility the issue here was your lack of exposure to anything other than straw men.