7 ms·

"I take full responsibility" is the new "our incredible journey" of failing tech company cliches.

by danjac 4y ago

0xblinq 4y ago
It's measured as I get paid a ton of money because of the responsibility I have but then nothing happens when things go to shit because well, nothing happens. BTW when's my next bonus pay day?
phoe-krk 4y ago
How is this responsibility defined? How is this responsibility measured? What aspects of the ex-Prisma people does this responsibility cover? What measurable and practical effects does this responsibility have when measured in one week, one month, three months, one year from now? If these targets are not met, what are the consequences of that? What are the means of enforcing that responsibility? I seriously think we need to start asking these sorts of questions and defining some sorts of standards for this "responsibility" this sentence mentions. In all other contexts, responsibility has its very tangible practical grounding and means of enforcing that grounding. In announcements like these, it reads just like a random and inconsequential "I'm sorry".
- Keyframe 4y ago
  You mean something like OKRs+KPIs, sales quotas, revenue targets, budgets…
  - phoe-krk 4y ago
    All these that you mentioned are metrics for measuring responsibility towards the company and its shareholders. I mean metrics for measuring responsibility towards the people, especially the laid-off ones - there seems to be absolutely none of these.
    - Keyframe 4y ago
      Right, but on the other hand there’s no responsibility if there’s no metric. Someone took responsibility on them to have revenue enough to keep people around, someone failed at that. Maybe revenue was enough but there was a decision to cut people anyways - someone who had responsibility to keep people they’ve hired. Someone might’ve hired HR people in order to grow the company, and now they’ve decided they don’t want to so let’s cut HR people.. nothing outside of contract stands between management and a worker if there’s no syndicate. Contract is easily terminated though, with or without penalties - depending. I guess companies aren’t our friends after all?
      - phoe-krk 4y ago
        > Right, but on the other hand there’s no responsibility if there’s no metric. That's why I call BS on the executive saying "I take full responsibility." > I guess companies aren’t our friends after all? They never were and never will be unless they decide to be friends. They may create a pleasing environment to do work in and care for good atmosphere in the workplace and press for decent interpersonal communication so that work gets done smoother, but it's all about the common goal of getting work done so they can get paid so you can get paid. This isn't friendship, it's optimization. Until your employment contract has an explicit friendship clause of some sort, or unless you own or co-own the company, you have no guarantees you are anything more than a mercenary with some legal protections that kick in if you are let go. That's the very basis of capitalism where workers are one of the many manageable resources.
    - super256 4y ago
      > I mean metrics for measuring responsibility towards the people, especially the laid-off ones - there seems to be absolutely none of these. First: The people being laid off are shareholders too. Prisma is offering part of their salary in equity. Second: How would a responsible lay-off other than this look like? Severance pay: All departing team members will receive one month of additional pay per year of service, plus the payout of any accrued PTO. Healthcare benefits: Prismas health benefits for US employees will remain in place through February. International contractors who don’t have government funded medical cover available will receive an extra $1,000 severance. Equity vesting: We are waiving the equity cliff for team members who have been with us for more than 6 months but less than 1 year. Job search support: For all those who wish to, we will do our best to connect you with the various recruitment groups within our investor community. Equipment: Keep all of the equipment that has been issued to you during the course of your employment with Prisma. He is taking responsibility by: 1) probably not making the same mistake in the near future again, and 2) taking money out of the company's bags and giving it to employees. What is the alternative to this? Should Prisma keep the workers, which became unnecessary for reaching the company's goals? Yes, it's most likely they over hired like every other tech company. But now are in an environment, where it's difficult to raise additional funds. Obviously, Prisma is now adapting and tries to lower the cash burn rate. Furthermore, it is worth noting that most tech companies massively hired in 2019, 2020 and 2021. If it now becomes obvious, that they hired too many people, what should they do besides cutting?
- AdrianB1 4y ago
  > How is this responsibility defined? For sure not seppuku. Probably nothing will happen. In big companies it is a golden parachute, but this is not a big company.
  - phoe-krk 4y ago
    > Probably nothing will happen. That's what I'm worried about and that's why I'm calling BS on this. The executive uses big words like "responsibility", I'd like to know what concrete measures are then hidden behind it.
    - AdrianB1 4y ago
      Corporations talk only BS for the past 10-15 years, words have no longer a meaning. Failures are usually rewarded, not punished, failing upwards is the norm in many places. Expectations of real responsibility, actions, etc are for people from other times, that are old or retired.
    - simplotek 4y ago
      > That's what I'm worried about and that's why I'm calling BS on this. Didn't Microsoft execs put on a lavish party in the eve of announcing firing thousands without notice?
      - weberer 4y ago
        Yes, at the World Economic Forum in Switzerland, no less. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/davos2023/card/microsoft-hosted-sting-performance-in-davos-on-night-before-it-announced-layoffs-cRHO4k295pSWarvtfQRJ https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/davos2023/card/microsoft-ho...
  - mangamadaiyan 4y ago
    Seppuku would be too much, IMHO. I'd settle for yubitsume.
- teeray 4y ago
  > How is this responsibility defined? If it were truly taking responsibility, the CEO approving layoffs would have a 28% chance of being laid off too.
  - dzikimarian 4y ago
    Surely random leadership change will help remaining 72%.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      Considering the track records that may be better than the good ol boys club shielding each other from these cuts
      - dzikimarian 4y ago
        What track record you're talking about? Last time layoffs of this size hit the market was about 15 years ago. Through these years average compensation in IT steadily rose, usually faster than market.
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Performance of executives, especially the 'professional' MBA class.
        dzikimarian 4y ago
        Can you please provide a concrete example?
    - FrontierPsych 4y ago
      Very well could be the case. Also, who said it would be a spin-the-wheel random choice. I'm sure the board of directors can go through a search to find another CEO, whether internal or external. But the CEO, the leader, should have some skin in the game as well. That's what real leadership is about.
- bsg75 4y ago
  > How is this responsibility defined? If it does not start with a 28% reduction in all areas of compensation, and full elimination of all bonus opportunities for the current calendar and fiscal year, then no responsibility has been taken.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
jimnotgym 4y ago
"So I am paying back staff and investors with my own money" That sounds like responsibility
epolanski 4y ago
"I take full responsibility" is always referred to the investors and shareholders. aka "I admit I have done a bad decision when I over hired and I'm correcting it". It's not a "I take full responsibility" towards the employees or customers.
- bosie 4y ago
  Can you even take responsibility for something if you don’t face any consequences yourself? Like a surgeon killing a patient “taking full responsibility”…
  - dtech 4y ago
    Yes, that means that he takes full responsibility for a mistake, and it wasn't due to other staff, equipment, unforeseen events etc...
    - alistairSH 4y ago
      Responsibility without consequence is meaningless.
      - charcircuit 4y ago
        The parent comment just described the meaning. It's not meaningless.
        alistairSH 4y ago
        So he didn’t throw a subordinate under the bus. Big whoop. He still has a job, bonus, and golden parachute. Despite fucking up and hiring way more than needed and upending those lives. Real responsibility would be leaving in disgrace, or returning his bonus and stock, or something else along those lines.
        Consultant32452 4y ago
simplotek 4y ago
"I take full responsibility" sounds more and more like "your sacrifice is a risk I'm willing to make".
- AdrianB1 4y ago
  That's what a real corporate leader says! (/s)
drewcon 4y ago
Is the new “unprecedented times”.
marcinzm 4y ago
Based on LinkedIn they grew from 134 to 164 in the last 6 months. I get taking a bet in 2021 on the post-covid world being different but making that same bet in mid 2022 doesn't seem a good decision.
pxue 4y ago
Responsibility without consequence or punishment are moot.
kwertyoowiyop 4y ago
“Our incredible journey” is for Chapter 11. Companies haven’t yet gotten to that stage.
asah 4y ago
I'd be ok with this and other lies having legal (civil) consequences, i.e. CEOs who say this are personally liable. Obviously, this phrase would die and that's the point. Really, it's not hard to remain authentic. Statements like "I feel terrible" are fine and even "we're trying to support everyone through this transition, both staff directly affected and their families, as well as the remaining staff who we realize shoulder increased burden." Without saying "we're doing everything we can" and other obvious lies.
- AbrahamParangi 4y ago
  “I take full responsibility” means “I am not firing these people because of their faults, I am firing them because I need to and had I better foresight, I wouldn’t have hired them in the first place” The firing is a necessary consequence of the hiring. You can, if you want, make it harder to fire people — but if you do you will also find companies will be less willing to hire people.
  - asah 4y ago
    Perhaps that's what the speaker intends but not what affected listeners are likely to hear. In the west, it's the speaker's responsibility to make themselves understood by the majority of listeners.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Patrol8394 4y ago
If he takes full responsibility then it should step down. But hell no, why would he…all these sugarcoated emails make me sick.
- robofanatic 4y ago
  Unfortunately there in no better way to say it
- tomnipotent 4y ago
  Most startups don't survive a new CEO, so you're basically asking he dooms the company, the investors, and the remaining employees. Real smart.
  - Patrol8394 4y ago
    The company was doomed the moment they started hiring at unreasonable pace because VC $$$. I have seen the same at other startups I worked at: VC pump $$$ into the company, the CEO starts bragging on doubling headcount every other quarter; people look at each other asking themselves what all this new people are going to do. Engineering now spend most of the time interviewing rather than building and delivering awesome products. Eventually growth slows down, customers are upset because the product sucks and here we are. Who is to blame? The CEO along with the board. So a change of CEO might be the only thing saving the company.
    - tomnipotent 4y ago
      > The company was doomed the moment they started hiring at unreasonable pace History disagrees. And the only reason the company exists in the first place is because of VC money. Don't join a startup if you don't want the risks associated with a startup. > Who is to blame? No one, because humans can't predict the future. Why are you so eager to see people punished? It's so easy to be critical when you're not the one actually responsible for building and running a company. This entire thread is an example of "tell me you know nothing about running a business without saying you know nothing about running a business". I recently had to fire my landscaper, so based on this logic I should probably sell my house so that I can "take responsibility".
listless 4y ago
Say “I take full responsibility” one more time…
0xfaded 4y ago
You're taking it out on a guy who graduated in 2013, managed to found a company in Europe! and have it survive long enough to make it to SF, and created ~100 jobs in the process?!?! This behavior should be celebrated, and so should the people who supported his growth as CEO of his company. The alternative is to install a class of professional CEO punching bags at the helm of every early-stage company. Not doing that is exactly what defined Silicon Valley post dot-com.
- swyx 4y ago
  TIL Soren is relatively young: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sorenbs/?originalSubdomain=de https://www.linkedin.com/in/sorenbs/?originalSubdomain=de he comes across as a very mature founder. im sure this layoff wasnt easy for him.

"I take full responsibility" is the new "our incredible journey" of failing tech company cliches.

by danjac 4y ago

"I take full responsibility" is the new "our incredible journey" of failing tech company cliches.

It's measured as I get paid a ton of money because of the responsibility I have but then nothing happens when things go to shit because well, nothing happens. BTW when's my next bonus pay day?

phoe-krk 4y ago

How is this responsibility defined? How is this responsibility measured? What aspects of the ex-Prisma people does this responsibility cover? What measurable and practical effects does this responsibility have when measured in one week, one month, three months, one year from now? If these targets are not met, what are the consequences of that? What are the means of enforcing that responsibility? I seriously think we need to start asking these sorts of questions and defining some sorts of standards for this "responsibility" this sentence mentions. In all other contexts, responsibility has its very tangible practical grounding and means of enforcing that grounding. In announcements like these, it reads just like a random and inconsequential "I'm sorry".

Keyframe 4y ago
You mean something like OKRs+KPIs, sales quotas, revenue targets, budgets…
- phoe-krk 4y ago
  All these that you mentioned are metrics for measuring responsibility towards the company and its shareholders. I mean metrics for measuring responsibility towards the people, especially the laid-off ones - there seems to be absolutely none of these.
  - Keyframe 4y ago
    Right, but on the other hand there’s no responsibility if there’s no metric. Someone took responsibility on them to have revenue enough to keep people around, someone failed at that. Maybe revenue was enough but there was a decision to cut people anyways - someone who had responsibility to keep people they’ve hired. Someone might’ve hired HR people in order to grow the company, and now they’ve decided they don’t want to so let’s cut HR people.. nothing outside of contract stands between management and a worker if there’s no syndicate. Contract is easily terminated though, with or without penalties - depending. I guess companies aren’t our friends after all?
    - phoe-krk 4y ago
      > Right, but on the other hand there’s no responsibility if there’s no metric. That's why I call BS on the executive saying "I take full responsibility." > I guess companies aren’t our friends after all? They never were and never will be unless they decide to be friends. They may create a pleasing environment to do work in and care for good atmosphere in the workplace and press for decent interpersonal communication so that work gets done smoother, but it's all about the common goal of getting work done so they can get paid so you can get paid. This isn't friendship, it's optimization. Until your employment contract has an explicit friendship clause of some sort, or unless you own or co-own the company, you have no guarantees you are anything more than a mercenary with some legal protections that kick in if you are let go. That's the very basis of capitalism where workers are one of the many manageable resources.
  - super256 4y ago
    > I mean metrics for measuring responsibility towards the people, especially the laid-off ones - there seems to be absolutely none of these. First: The people being laid off are shareholders too. Prisma is offering part of their salary in equity. Second: How would a responsible lay-off other than this look like? Severance pay: All departing team members will receive one month of additional pay per year of service, plus the payout of any accrued PTO. Healthcare benefits: Prismas health benefits for US employees will remain in place through February. International contractors who don’t have government funded medical cover available will receive an extra $1,000 severance. Equity vesting: We are waiving the equity cliff for team members who have been with us for more than 6 months but less than 1 year. Job search support: For all those who wish to, we will do our best to connect you with the various recruitment groups within our investor community. Equipment: Keep all of the equipment that has been issued to you during the course of your employment with Prisma. He is taking responsibility by: 1) probably not making the same mistake in the near future again, and 2) taking money out of the company's bags and giving it to employees. What is the alternative to this? Should Prisma keep the workers, which became unnecessary for reaching the company's goals? Yes, it's most likely they over hired like every other tech company. But now are in an environment, where it's difficult to raise additional funds. Obviously, Prisma is now adapting and tries to lower the cash burn rate. Furthermore, it is worth noting that most tech companies massively hired in 2019, 2020 and 2021. If it now becomes obvious, that they hired too many people, what should they do besides cutting?
AdrianB1 4y ago
> How is this responsibility defined? For sure not seppuku. Probably nothing will happen. In big companies it is a golden parachute, but this is not a big company.
- phoe-krk 4y ago
  > Probably nothing will happen. That's what I'm worried about and that's why I'm calling BS on this. The executive uses big words like "responsibility", I'd like to know what concrete measures are then hidden behind it.
  - AdrianB1 4y ago
    Corporations talk only BS for the past 10-15 years, words have no longer a meaning. Failures are usually rewarded, not punished, failing upwards is the norm in many places. Expectations of real responsibility, actions, etc are for people from other times, that are old or retired.
  - simplotek 4y ago
    > That's what I'm worried about and that's why I'm calling BS on this. Didn't Microsoft execs put on a lavish party in the eve of announcing firing thousands without notice?
    - weberer 4y ago
      Yes, at the World Economic Forum in Switzerland, no less. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/davos2023/card/microsoft-hosted-sting-performance-in-davos-on-night-before-it-announced-layoffs-cRHO4k295pSWarvtfQRJ https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/davos2023/card/microsoft-ho...
- mangamadaiyan 4y ago
  Seppuku would be too much, IMHO. I'd settle for yubitsume.
teeray 4y ago
> How is this responsibility defined? If it were truly taking responsibility, the CEO approving layoffs would have a 28% chance of being laid off too.
- dzikimarian 4y ago
  Surely random leadership change will help remaining 72%.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Considering the track records that may be better than the good ol boys club shielding each other from these cuts
    - dzikimarian 4y ago
      What track record you're talking about? Last time layoffs of this size hit the market was about 15 years ago. Through these years average compensation in IT steadily rose, usually faster than market.
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Performance of executives, especially the 'professional' MBA class.
        dzikimarian 4y ago
        Can you please provide a concrete example?
  - FrontierPsych 4y ago
    Very well could be the case. Also, who said it would be a spin-the-wheel random choice. I'm sure the board of directors can go through a search to find another CEO, whether internal or external. But the CEO, the leader, should have some skin in the game as well. That's what real leadership is about.
bsg75 4y ago
> How is this responsibility defined? If it does not start with a 28% reduction in all areas of compensation, and full elimination of all bonus opportunities for the current calendar and fiscal year, then no responsibility has been taken.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

jimnotgym 4y ago

"So I am paying back staff and investors with my own money" That sounds like responsibility

epolanski 4y ago

"I take full responsibility" is always referred to the investors and shareholders. aka "I admit I have done a bad decision when I over hired and I'm correcting it". It's not a "I take full responsibility" towards the employees or customers.

bosie 4y ago
Can you even take responsibility for something if you don’t face any consequences yourself? Like a surgeon killing a patient “taking full responsibility”…
- dtech 4y ago
  Yes, that means that he takes full responsibility for a mistake, and it wasn't due to other staff, equipment, unforeseen events etc...
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    Responsibility without consequence is meaningless.
    - charcircuit 4y ago
      The parent comment just described the meaning. It's not meaningless.
      - alistairSH 4y ago
        So he didn’t throw a subordinate under the bus. Big whoop. He still has a job, bonus, and golden parachute. Despite fucking up and hiring way more than needed and upending those lives. Real responsibility would be leaving in disgrace, or returning his bonus and stock, or something else along those lines.
        Consultant32452 4y ago

simplotek 4y ago

"I take full responsibility" sounds more and more like "your sacrifice is a risk I'm willing to make".

AdrianB1 4y ago
That's what a real corporate leader says! (/s)

drewcon 4y ago

Is the new “unprecedented times”.

marcinzm 4y ago

Based on LinkedIn they grew from 134 to 164 in the last 6 months. I get taking a bet in 2021 on the post-covid world being different but making that same bet in mid 2022 doesn't seem a good decision.

pxue 4y ago

Responsibility without consequence or punishment are moot.

kwertyoowiyop 4y ago

“Our incredible journey” is for Chapter 11. Companies haven’t yet gotten to that stage.

asah 4y ago

I'd be ok with this and other lies having legal (civil) consequences, i.e. CEOs who say this are personally liable. Obviously, this phrase would die and that's the point. Really, it's not hard to remain authentic. Statements like "I feel terrible" are fine and even "we're trying to support everyone through this transition, both staff directly affected and their families, as well as the remaining staff who we realize shoulder increased burden." Without saying "we're doing everything we can" and other obvious lies.

AbrahamParangi 4y ago
“I take full responsibility” means “I am not firing these people because of their faults, I am firing them because I need to and had I better foresight, I wouldn’t have hired them in the first place” The firing is a necessary consequence of the hiring. You can, if you want, make it harder to fire people — but if you do you will also find companies will be less willing to hire people.
- asah 4y ago
  Perhaps that's what the speaker intends but not what affected listeners are likely to hear. In the west, it's the speaker's responsibility to make themselves understood by the majority of listeners.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Patrol8394 4y ago

If he takes full responsibility then it should step down. But hell no, why would he…all these sugarcoated emails make me sick.

robofanatic 4y ago
Unfortunately there in no better way to say it
tomnipotent 4y ago
Most startups don't survive a new CEO, so you're basically asking he dooms the company, the investors, and the remaining employees. Real smart.
- Patrol8394 4y ago
  The company was doomed the moment they started hiring at unreasonable pace because VC $$$. I have seen the same at other startups I worked at: VC pump $$$ into the company, the CEO starts bragging on doubling headcount every other quarter; people look at each other asking themselves what all this new people are going to do. Engineering now spend most of the time interviewing rather than building and delivering awesome products. Eventually growth slows down, customers are upset because the product sucks and here we are. Who is to blame? The CEO along with the board. So a change of CEO might be the only thing saving the company.
  - tomnipotent 4y ago
    > The company was doomed the moment they started hiring at unreasonable pace History disagrees. And the only reason the company exists in the first place is because of VC money. Don't join a startup if you don't want the risks associated with a startup. > Who is to blame? No one, because humans can't predict the future. Why are you so eager to see people punished? It's so easy to be critical when you're not the one actually responsible for building and running a company. This entire thread is an example of "tell me you know nothing about running a business without saying you know nothing about running a business". I recently had to fire my landscaper, so based on this logic I should probably sell my house so that I can "take responsibility".

listless 4y ago

Say “I take full responsibility” one more time…

0xfaded 4y ago

You're taking it out on a guy who graduated in 2013, managed to found a company in Europe! and have it survive long enough to make it to SF, and created ~100 jobs in the process?!?! This behavior should be celebrated, and so should the people who supported his growth as CEO of his company. The alternative is to install a class of professional CEO punching bags at the helm of every early-stage company. Not doing that is exactly what defined Silicon Valley post dot-com.

swyx 4y ago
TIL Soren is relatively young: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sorenbs/?originalSubdomain=de https://www.linkedin.com/in/sorenbs/?originalSubdomain=de he comes across as a very mature founder. im sure this layoff wasnt easy for him.