11 ms·

A large network of fake Google Maps comments/reviews and fake businesses

263 points by troydavis 4y ago

totetsu 4y ago
Maybe in the future/present one could provide a service of just being a 100% verifiable real person.
- msla 4y ago
  Any verification you can get over the mail or over the Internet or over any other distant communication can be faked. Cryptography doesn't help, genetic material doesn't help, fingerprints don't help: They only prove that the entity you're communicating with has access to private keys and at least one person, assuming genetic material can't be faked at this point, not that you're always communicating with the same person. It's why the old cypherpunks insisted on exchanging public keys in person.
  - trompetenaccoun 4y ago
    It's a very difficult problem to solve in a way that works for most people, i.e. secure, privacy preserving, easy to use, etc. It's easy to have one and not the other. It's not true that it can not be solved at all though. The guys from idena.io have a solution that definitely works, problem is it's not convenient and I highly doubt that it'll ever be adopted by the masses. But it is a sybil attack solution and it does work over the internet. Edit: Just noticed you said prove that it's always the same person. They can not do that. But they can prove that it's a unique human. Which seems good enough for online reviews imo, where it doesn't exactly matter who the person is.
troydavis 4y ago
95% of the 100+ comments on this business are fake, presumably from a comment/review farm that was paid by the business owner (though I don't know that). The same commenters - some of which Google Maps describes as "Local Guides" - also have commented on dozens or hundreds of businesses that don't exist at all. The fake business entries are basically using Google Maps place locations for SEO and presumably, referral lead gen. Create dozens of business places with random addresses throughout a metro area, name them after a service that someone might enter ("Heating repair"), and list a Web site or phone number. Wait for less-savvy consumers search or stumble across them and call. Among the dozens or hundreds of fake Google Maps businesses that this network has touched, here's two: "Top Grade Rolling Firm": https://www.google.com/maps/place/Top+Grade+Rolling+Firm/@38.8978075,-77.0083002,17z/data=!3m2!4b1!5s0x89b7b826ca5d1dab:0x7edf0a3ada1943bc!4m11!1m5!8m4!1e1!2s115552064819640275340!3m1!1e1!3m4!1s0x89b7b9f1a5debf7d:0xda5ea90e9be8da15!8m2!3d38.8978033!4d-77.0061115?hl=en-US https://www.google.com/maps/place/Top+Grade+Rolling+Firm/@38... Some of the fake reviews for nonexistent businesses even include photos: "Santiago Appliance Repair Service": https://www.google.com/maps/place/Santiago+Appliance+Repair+Service/@30.0832771,-95.4214459,17z/data=!4m13!1m5!8m4!1e1!2s117702732813342964966!3m1!1e1!3m6!1s0xa0075ec325743949:0x9478f4d4e30e4fe7!8m2!3d30.0832725!4d-95.4192572!9m1!1b1?hl=en-US https://www.google.com/maps/place/Santiago+Appliance+Repair+... That address is actually a random suburban house, not an appliance store. Some of the fake businesses have gone undetected for years, and in that time, have collected a few real reviews from people who called and didn't receive the service. Here's one from "Heating Cooling Repair Services": https://www.google.com/maps/place/Heating+%26+Cooling+Repair+Services+Edmonds/@47.8302265,-122.3395246,17z/data=!4m7!3m6!1s0x549015c5808353f3:0x5f5fd9a8ce6e8610!8m2!3d47.8302229!4d-122.3373359!9m1!1b1 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Heating+%26+Cooling+Repair... : > If i could give them zero stars i would, don't waste your time.. I scheduled an appointment to fix my broken AC unit and was pleasantly surprised at getting an appointment the same week. I took off early from work to ensure I was home before the scheduled time. Nobody ever showed up, nobody called, and I called their number multiple times to see if maybe something came up and they never answered their phone. Here's a Web site for one of these networks of fake businesses: https://nationalacservices.com/ https://nationalacservices.com/ . In that case, each fake Google Maps business links to a subdomain, like: https://lake-forest-park.nationalacservices.com/ https://lake-forest-park.nationalacservices.com/ . Another: https://santiagoappliancerepairservice.us/ https://santiagoappliancerepairservice.us/ The fake Google Maps reviews are as generic as you'd expect. For example: > I have been a patient at this medical laboratory for several years and have always had a great experience. The staff is friendly and efficient, and the facility is clean and well-maintained. I appreciate the quick turnaround time for test results and the ability to easily access them online. Overall, I have always received top-notch care at this facility. The comments come from hundreds of Google accounts like these: https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/102638895982367652158/reviews?hl=en-US https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/102638895982367652158/re... https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/111709777137583909632/reviews?hl=en-US https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/111709777137583909632/re... Google Maps doesn't have a way to report an entire account as a bot; one can only flag a specific comment. There's also no way to provide enough information for Google Maps' trust & safety team to understand what's happening and figure out how they're evading Google's bot detection. So, it continues unabated.
- nkurz 4y ago
  Interesting. Something is up. A few more things that seemed odd: 1) It looks like most of the reviewers have only reviewed a few businesses. Maybe this is to avoid suspicion, but if the accounts are fake they seem underutilized. I didn't see any fakes with over 6. 2) On the page you linked, several of the reviewers (Thaddues Kelly Parks, Darren Meyer, and Adilson Vierra) gave a standard glowing review but only awarded 3 stars. Also to avoid suspicion? Others gave 4. 3) All (almost all?) the fakes are within the last month. All of the extremely negative reviews are "a year ago". They are so negative I almost wonder if they might be fake too, and it might be extortion.
  - troydavis 4y ago
    1. My guess is the same as yours - it’s to avoid suspicion. And maybe creating new accounts is easy enough that there’s no reason to over-use one account. 2. Yes, I imagine this is either to avoid suspicion or because the person writing/pasting this comment wasn’t paying attention and chose the wrong rating. Even fake reviews will have an error rate above 0 :-) 3. I was curious about that too. Another possibility is that the service really does suck, that’s reflected in the old negative comments, and eventually these businesses resorted to paying for reviews. All guesses though.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    > 2) On the page you linked, several of the reviewers (Thaddues Kelly Parks, Darren Meyer, and Adilson Vierra) gave a standard glowing review but only awarded 3 stars. Also to avoid suspicion? Others gave 4. The alternative explanation is: they're real people who are terrible with technology and the internet. I've run a site where people could rate their experience with others, and the correlation between stars and text was only so-so. Lots of people considered 1 to be best, even though clicking on 1 showed a text "Terrible" just below it. 3 Stars was actually pretty common for glowing reviews. Everybody keeps forgetting that lots of people write reviews, especially when you ask them to ("hey, if you liked it here, please recommend us on Google Maps"), and some of those people will be the kind who gets these Amazon questions from other customers and reply "I'm sorry, I don't know how well they fit, I bought these pants for my son but he blew up the chicken coop and hadn't had time to wear the pants yet".
Dorcy64 4y ago
I have constantly received emails(~monthly) from companies advertising these services to my business. The packages they always advertise are as follows: 1. 10 Google Reviews, 50 – 100 Words, REAL Active Profiles, Local Profiles, Drip Feed Method, 24/7 Ticket Support, for $94.99 2. 20 Google Reviews, 50 – 100 Words, REAL Active Profiles, Local Profiles, Drip Feed Method, 24/7 Ticket Support, for $179.99 I always assumed that if you have bad reviews, the go-to was to either change how you operate, change your business name, or do both.
TheCaptain4815 4y ago
My time to shine as someone who's pretty deep in this game. There's an enormous and growing market of fake GBPs for the purpose of selling leads called Local SEO Lead Gen. (each entity can bring in thousands of dollars/month.) The thinking is why go through the headache of dealing with clients who can fire you the day after they begin ranking (Local SEO is heavily "front loaded" work wise), will always try undercutting you on price, etc, when you can CREATE YOUR OWN entity, get that ranked and then SELL the leads to that plumber. You're the one with 100% control and if the plumber isn't happy, there's a dozen others who'll gladly take those leads. Advanced lead gen owners use software such as MultiLogin along with mobile proxy farms to have hundreds of separate Chrome "entities" saved, all using different proxies, their own cookies, etc. This along with an infinite amount of other tools for call tracking, CTR manipulation, etc. Mobile proxies have really changed the game, giving these lead gen folks an advantage. Because of the nature of mobile proxies (where multiple people can "share an IP address"), it's more difficult to detect. Since EACH GBP entity can bring in thousands/month, it's miniscule in terms of cost. Reviews? Laughably easy to purchase and outsource, starting around $5/review. Combine this with fake Dalle images to attach to the review and/or GBP itself, and things can only get worse from here. Google has actually begun VIDEO verification where you literally have to facetime with a Google employee to verify you own the business you say you own... even this can be gamed since any type of manual verification will be outsourced. Oh and the real masters of this business model? Well they don't bother SELLING the leads to contractors, they will quite literally start their own company and will hire their own plumbers, electricians, concrete crews, etc to squeeze as much profit as possible.
- fellellor 4y ago
  Maybe this is why Google will lobby the government to restrict the distribution of open source AI models. https://twitter.com/jonst0kes/status/1618705267801325568?s=61&t=sp6PY2PCiFLvb3cWufqTDw https://twitter.com/jonst0kes/status/1618705267801325568?s=6...
- cobertos 4y ago
  The video calls must be new. When I first made a Google My Business profile, there was no verification. Not even address verification. And then I couldn't get the listing delisted from Google either (my friend made a prank listing). At some point they added postcard by mail verification. Then they added having to upload documents (articles of organization, pictures of store). And then the last time my account got suspended I had to make a video showing the above as well as including the cross streets in the video. It doesn't surprise me so many people are gaming this system because it's effectively a free pass to the top of local Google searches as well as getting into Maps searches.
kris_wayton 4y ago
I remember this being especially bad for certain niches like locksmiths. In that space, someone would create fake businesses and then take the leads they got via phone, email, websites, etc, and then refer the business to some actual locksmith. With probably heavy mark-up to cover the referral fee.
- jaycroft 4y ago
  Oh wow, see my other comment in another thread. I had a ridiculously bad experience trying to get a key fob made last week - all the numbers would lead me around in circles, then I'd get "spam caller" numbers calling me telling me they were on their way. Switching to Yelp reviews seemed to solve the problem for locksmiths in particular, and I really can't figure out why...
  - jaycroft 4y ago
    Replying to myself to add: for any other household service I probably wouldn't have even noticed. But, being in a vulnerable position, having sketchy locksmith services really freaked me out. You want my address and credit card info and also know that I have a disabled vehicle potentially outside of my garage? No thanks, not taking any extra chances here.
- cynusx 4y ago
  It's worse actually, people create GMB accounts for their competitors and list their phone number. Anyway, aren't they doing address verification with snail mail nowadays?
  - kris_wayton 4y ago
    They get around address verification with mailbox rentals at places like the UPS store, or other places like it.
Amrabat 4y ago
[flagged]
sairahul82 4y ago
These fake reviews are easier to identify. No profile photo, they typically have one or two 5 star reviews. If you click on few reviews of a business and if you see this pattern then most likely they are fake. In the past I want to choose a mover and this particular business has 4.9 stars with over 300 reviews. There is no way a mover can have this rating. I clicked on atleast 50 reviewers and all of them have only one review and it is a 5 star one. For some reason Google doesn’t care. I tried to complain about a particular review but there is no option to indicate the kind.
- kspacewalk2 4y ago
  Your fake-meter is trivially easy to bypass with a few 3- and 4-star reviews and a fake DALL-E profile photo. This is already seen quite often in the wild.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- troydavis 4y ago
  Some of the fake reviews are much better. Here's one for "Seattle Metro Heating and Cooling Services," which doesn't exist. One of this account's other fake reviews includes a photo (https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/113396308112481697373/reviews/ https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/113396308112481697373/re...): > We had a weird circumstance where we were out of town for an extended time and our HVAC unit quit working during a massive heat spell. Access to the house had to be coordinated and the bill had to be paid remotely. None of that was an issue for Roy, who was able to get out and repair the problem super quickly and for a completely reasonable amount. This is our first time using Seattle Metro Heating & Cooling Services. The experience was so positive that they will be our go-to HVAC professional from here on out.
  - citizenpaul 4y ago
    Its a lead farm the review may be real but still worthless. The named business does not exist but there is some sort of lead company that has local contracts and randomly assigns the job to some random guy that says he is HVAC cerified. Nearly all locksmith, towing and moving company listings are like this now. Its basically automating fly by night contractors. The paying customers will find the guarantees and warrantee are worthless.
0___0 4y ago
"I recently had the pleasure of being a patient"
wintermutestwin 4y ago
Algorithmic and AI failures like this are starting to pave the way towards curation by skilled knowledge workers. Is anyone actually working on this again?
visarga 4y ago
chatGPT hallucinates, Google shows fakes, not very different. Nobody can solve this problem
- fragmede 4y ago
  Wikipedia may not be perfect but I trust what it shows me. Maybe a bit naive but I'm sure I'm not the only one.
  - visarga 4y ago
    Yeah, thanks, I forgot to add Wikipedia to the list. It is a great resource but there are many forces trying to change it to suit their needs. And even scientific papers often contradict each other, they are also good quality but far from delivering truth. At least in some fields, papers are just throwing random ideas to the wall seeing what sticks. We don't even have proper theories to guide this process.
fallingmeat 4y ago
Do your part- make a review and put a dent in
bashari 4y ago
[flagged]
sumoboy 4y ago
Gaming the system never ends. I recall reading like 2 years ago where someone would drive around in a car with 50+ smartphones asking google maps for directions to pump up business rankings for GMB.
flownoon 4y ago
I got scammed by this exact type of thing when I needed a tow truck ASAP to jump my car. They had a fake business <1 mile away with lots of good reviews. After giving them my credit card info right away and after a long delay, I gave it more scrutiny and realized it was definitely a fake business. I called multiple times to figure out where the F$&@ my tow truck was, each time talking to a different person with a filipino accent. An impressively sophisticated scam, Im not sure how google could fight it
- mistrial9 4y ago
  pay after you get the service
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    Use the magic phrase: I’ll pay cash. All legit trades people strongly prefer cash, and you can’t get scammed out of it over the phone.
- bryceacc 4y ago
  get AAA, and also credit card over the phone? I would have stopped there
  - wolongong942 4y ago
    That's how most legitimate tow companies take payment if you aren't already registered.
    - seb1204 4y ago
      Mobile credit devices are very common. Some are the size of a coaster and connect to you mobile device of choice. Pay on arrival.
  - computerex 4y ago
    AAA has been utterly useless. In the past 2 times I needed a tow, they couldn't arrange one in a timely manner, with lots of delays and miscommunications.
Denatonium 4y ago
I got a COVID test at a local independent pharmacy. This same "Right Way Laboratory" processed the results and billed my health insurance company over $500 per test.
- mgerdts 4y ago
  I got a COVID test from UW Hospitals and Clinics in Madison WI. This is a huge academic medical organization with tens of clinics scattered in all parts of the city and millions of square feet of hospital space. I had to drive about 40 minutes to a drive through location beyond the other side of town. They also billed my insurance over $500. Assuming you got accurate results in a timely manner, you got the better deal by not having to leave your neighborhood.
RajT88 4y ago
Fake for a different reason, but I came across this a while back, where the local fishermen were having a laugh. Lake O'Hare https://maps.app.goo.gl/P66Y8QQfbu2aWjwMA https://maps.app.goo.gl/P66Y8QQfbu2aWjwMA
twelve40 4y ago
I recently ran into fake business on doordash of all places. I was in a hurry and ordered without reading too much. An hour and a half later canceled with a full refund from DD. Got curious and drove to the listed restaurant in person, it turned out to be some bank building. So it wasn't even a duplicate or impostor, it never existed. Since I got my money back, I'm assuming they are trying to scam doordash itself...
- themitigating 4y ago
  How though? Does Doordash instantly send the restaurant the money or is it like after a few days?
  - twelve40 4y ago
    That's the part i'm not sure about. The menu looked totally legit, the phone number turned out some random person in Vegas (after i bothered actually calling). Someone took their time to set this up.
    - cyberlurker 4y ago
      Maybe money laundering front?
  - ericpauley 4y ago
    What I’ve heard from people in the service industry is that tons of pickup orders never even get picked up. Maybe they’re banking on some percentage of delivery orders not even noticing that no food arrives? Still, seems highly unlikely to work out.
- citizenpaul 4y ago
  >doordash of all places Doordash is into extremely sketchy territory. Here is a good link if you want to know more.also read the top rated comment from former grubhub executive. https://www.readmargins.com/p/doordash-and-pizza-arbitrage https://www.readmargins.com/p/doordash-and-pizza-arbitrage
cc101 4y ago
I'm appalled. These comments are pretty confusing for someone like me who has no domain knowledge. Any public spirited hacker out there who wants to synthesize this material?
klabb3 4y ago
Taking a step back, we rely on countless systems every day where some reasonable proof-of-personhood is critical for the application, yet our countermeasures are best-effort in-house fraud prevention relying on security-by-obscurity. I suspect virtually all systems of today are ripe for exploitation in a rapidly evolving cat-and-mouse game. We’re in the early stages of a dirt cheap, sophisticated AI content generation revolution. Yet, our rhetoric suggests that these are minor, isolated issues with specific companies. I’m wondering if it’s time to properly categorize these attacks as a separate and omnipresent danger to computer systems that process and distribute human input, and take it seriously. (Is there already a term for this? Sybil-attacks?) Are security researchers or academia largely overlooking an elephant in the room? Maybe I live under a rock, but I haven’t seen any interesting movement in analyzing, much less mitigating, these threats systematically. Specifically, I fear the huge boost in human-imitation AI will shift the scales in favor of gray/black actors, due to reduced general trust-levels (as if they weren’t already low). If fake reviews cost $5 today, but $.01 tomorrow, there’s simply no way our dams will hold to that pressure. We really need some answers on how to navigate the upcoming sea of bullshit, or we’ll regress quickly into a world that’s disorienting at best, for good actors, and offers plenty exploitation by bad actors.
- asdadsdad 4y ago
  You're right. It is an issue and a lot of players and researchers are already into it in an area called "Trust & Safety". However, these are problems that pertain to platforms as opposed to other tech enterprises, and as such, they are mostly dominated by these companies interests and strategies. E.g. it can be argued that misleading advertisement is still good business for GoogleAds or Meta. Refer to a discussion here on HN along the lines of "the optimal amount of fraud is non-zero" to get a better idea of the sort of thing I'm talking about. Moreover, aside from being problems of the closed platforms we chose to be the "winners" of the Internet most people use, it looks like the companies don't want any help in solving them, or won't make it any easier. A lot of people has done research on fake instagram accounts, for instance. It now got almost impossible to have API access to followers/following ratio or even scrape it, which is a key metric in that research. Anyway, I digress, but yes, it's an issue, it's a proper issue of platforms that take human input, and it's one they don't want our help.
BeautifulOrb 4y ago
I was scammed by a plumber with this scheme, dozens of fake reviews. No recourse. And the listing is still there, no way to remove it.
thorawayz 4y ago
Reminds me of the "crazy" conspiracy theory about child trafficking and the "Aquariums" found all across Google Maps. https://old.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/wu53h3/anons_discover_mysterious_texas_aquariums/ https://old.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/wu53h3/anons_discove...
gashad 4y ago
I researched duct cleaners recently and found a similar set of dubious businesses. There are several businesses named "American Air Duct Cleaning of [insert city name]". Google Maps has 70-120 5 star reviews. They all say things like “David and Oscar did a great job”…. from Florida to Texas to other states... always David and/or Oscar for each place! All the reviews are in the last 6 months or so. All the reviews are relatively unique and the reviewers are not new Google reviewers… there’s definitely some sort of weird Google Review scam going on here. All the websites say “Family/Locally Owned & Operated" yet they're identical web pages. I'm surprised by how unsophisticated the approach appears. Interesting to see the problem is not limited to duct cleaning businesses.
7to2 4y ago
I think society will eventually be forced to adopt the broker model often featured in dystopian media. People will no longer trust big corporations and instead refer to local fixers and information brokers to get the information they need (for a fee of course). "Need a real plumber? Well here's a good one for 5$. A competent lawyer? 50$ and I'll tell you." The sad thing is that big corporations won't fix this problem unless they are allowed to fully compromise everyone's privacy. The can solve it in another way, but they won't. This is a people problem and requires people solutions (Governments).
bandyaboot 4y ago
I’ve run into this when looking for an hvac contractor to do some work in my basement. Was just going through the listings and making a bunch of calls. It was definitely annoying encountering all the fake “store fronts”, but I also found that just by talking to them and asking a couple questions, it was super obvious which ones were fake and which ones were legit.
- therealdrag0 4y ago
  As a noob homeowner. What questions did you ask?
  - bandyaboot 4y ago
    It’s possible my case was a bit unique in how obvious it was. I was specifically looking to find a small local shop or independent contractor just to do a walk through/consult on expanding the bare bones hvac setup in the basement for finishing. I was doing the work myself but wanted expert input so I could try to avoid the common problem in cold climates of basement living spaces being significantly colder than the rest of the house. Independent contractors are easy. Many are just listed under their names, and even if they use a business name, their business number is almost always just the cell phone. When you call they’ll either not answer and you have to leave a voicemail to get a call back, or if they do answer, they’ll pick up with something like “this is <insert name>”. So for them you don’t even need to ask anything. When calling a number that is supposedly a small shop, I found that when I told them what I was wanting and asked “is that something you would do?”, the fake ones would immediately say yes. The legit places would ask follow up questions, or if it was an office worker, they would have one of their techs call me back.
Kelvinwiard 4y ago
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faebi 4y ago
I see the same thing going on Youtube. Not just one spam account, but whole networks with hundreds of accounts dominating one comment section. All building one coherent story to scam people. It's often the most liked comments having 10x more upvotes than others. These are in the 100's and 1000's of upvotes.
therook12 4y ago
I own a real locksmith business in Albany, NY. The legit companies here are getting killed with bot farm reviews. I get multiple daily. They are going to town. I believe it is a scammer company here paying for it. Said scammer company also turns out to be the Google Guaranteed company lol. Can’t make this stuff up. Like a dozen fake negative reviews a week. Its taken me years to build a good reputation and now its being completely destroyed with fake reviews that go so low as to insult my manhood.
EvelynFrank 4y ago
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mirabel-stephen 4y ago
I shouldn’t be saying this here but to be honest this hacker should be reviewed, I just used his services, and he’s the best, experience and ethical. Contact him for any hacking and recovery support via email, (expertwisehacker@gmail.com") you can tell him I referred you.
- ellenotlean 4y ago
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- ellenotlean 4y ago
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mirabel-stephen 4y ago
I shouldn’t be saying this here but to be honest this hacker should be reviewed, I just used his services, and he’s the best, experience and ethical. Contact him for any hacking and recovery support via email, (expertwisehacker@gmail.com") you can tell him I referred you

263 points by troydavis 4y ago

totetsu 4y ago

Maybe in the future/present one could provide a service of just being a 100% verifiable real person.

msla 4y ago
Any verification you can get over the mail or over the Internet or over any other distant communication can be faked. Cryptography doesn't help, genetic material doesn't help, fingerprints don't help: They only prove that the entity you're communicating with has access to private keys and at least one person, assuming genetic material can't be faked at this point, not that you're always communicating with the same person. It's why the old cypherpunks insisted on exchanging public keys in person.
- trompetenaccoun 4y ago
  It's a very difficult problem to solve in a way that works for most people, i.e. secure, privacy preserving, easy to use, etc. It's easy to have one and not the other. It's not true that it can not be solved at all though. The guys from idena.io have a solution that definitely works, problem is it's not convenient and I highly doubt that it'll ever be adopted by the masses. But it is a sybil attack solution and it does work over the internet. Edit: Just noticed you said prove that it's always the same person. They can not do that. But they can prove that it's a unique human. Which seems good enough for online reviews imo, where it doesn't exactly matter who the person is.

troydavis 4y ago

95% of the 100+ comments on this business are fake, presumably from a comment/review farm that was paid by the business owner (though I don't know that). The same commenters - some of which Google Maps describes as "Local Guides" - also have commented on dozens or hundreds of businesses that don't exist at all. The fake business entries are basically using Google Maps place locations for SEO and presumably, referral lead gen. Create dozens of business places with random addresses throughout a metro area, name them after a service that someone might enter ("Heating repair"), and list a Web site or phone number. Wait for less-savvy consumers search or stumble across them and call. Among the dozens or hundreds of fake Google Maps businesses that this network has touched, here's two: "Top Grade Rolling Firm": https://www.google.com/maps/place/Top+Grade+Rolling+Firm/@38.8978075,-77.0083002,17z/data=!3m2!4b1!5s0x89b7b826ca5d1dab:0x7edf0a3ada1943bc!4m11!1m5!8m4!1e1!2s115552064819640275340!3m1!1e1!3m4!1s0x89b7b9f1a5debf7d:0xda5ea90e9be8da15!8m2!3d38.8978033!4d-77.0061115?hl=en-US https://www.google.com/maps/place/Top+Grade+Rolling+Firm/@38... Some of the fake reviews for nonexistent businesses even include photos: "Santiago Appliance Repair Service": https://www.google.com/maps/place/Santiago+Appliance+Repair+Service/@30.0832771,-95.4214459,17z/data=!4m13!1m5!8m4!1e1!2s117702732813342964966!3m1!1e1!3m6!1s0xa0075ec325743949:0x9478f4d4e30e4fe7!8m2!3d30.0832725!4d-95.4192572!9m1!1b1?hl=en-US https://www.google.com/maps/place/Santiago+Appliance+Repair+... That address is actually a random suburban house, not an appliance store. Some of the fake businesses have gone undetected for years, and in that time, have collected a few real reviews from people who called and didn't receive the service. Here's one from "Heating Cooling Repair Services": https://www.google.com/maps/place/Heating+%26+Cooling+Repair+Services+Edmonds/@47.8302265,-122.3395246,17z/data=!4m7!3m6!1s0x549015c5808353f3:0x5f5fd9a8ce6e8610!8m2!3d47.8302229!4d-122.3373359!9m1!1b1 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Heating+%26+Cooling+Repair... : > If i could give them zero stars i would, don't waste your time.. I scheduled an appointment to fix my broken AC unit and was pleasantly surprised at getting an appointment the same week. I took off early from work to ensure I was home before the scheduled time. Nobody ever showed up, nobody called, and I called their number multiple times to see if maybe something came up and they never answered their phone. Here's a Web site for one of these networks of fake businesses: https://nationalacservices.com/ https://nationalacservices.com/ . In that case, each fake Google Maps business links to a subdomain, like: https://lake-forest-park.nationalacservices.com/ https://lake-forest-park.nationalacservices.com/ . Another: https://santiagoappliancerepairservice.us/ https://santiagoappliancerepairservice.us/ The fake Google Maps reviews are as generic as you'd expect. For example: > I have been a patient at this medical laboratory for several years and have always had a great experience. The staff is friendly and efficient, and the facility is clean and well-maintained. I appreciate the quick turnaround time for test results and the ability to easily access them online. Overall, I have always received top-notch care at this facility. The comments come from hundreds of Google accounts like these: https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/102638895982367652158/reviews?hl=en-US https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/102638895982367652158/re... https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/111709777137583909632/reviews?hl=en-US https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/111709777137583909632/re... Google Maps doesn't have a way to report an entire account as a bot; one can only flag a specific comment. There's also no way to provide enough information for Google Maps' trust & safety team to understand what's happening and figure out how they're evading Google's bot detection. So, it continues unabated.

nkurz 4y ago
Interesting. Something is up. A few more things that seemed odd: 1) It looks like most of the reviewers have only reviewed a few businesses. Maybe this is to avoid suspicion, but if the accounts are fake they seem underutilized. I didn't see any fakes with over 6. 2) On the page you linked, several of the reviewers (Thaddues Kelly Parks, Darren Meyer, and Adilson Vierra) gave a standard glowing review but only awarded 3 stars. Also to avoid suspicion? Others gave 4. 3) All (almost all?) the fakes are within the last month. All of the extremely negative reviews are "a year ago". They are so negative I almost wonder if they might be fake too, and it might be extortion.
- troydavis 4y ago
  1. My guess is the same as yours - it’s to avoid suspicion. And maybe creating new accounts is easy enough that there’s no reason to over-use one account. 2. Yes, I imagine this is either to avoid suspicion or because the person writing/pasting this comment wasn’t paying attention and chose the wrong rating. Even fake reviews will have an error rate above 0 :-) 3. I was curious about that too. Another possibility is that the service really does suck, that’s reflected in the old negative comments, and eventually these businesses resorted to paying for reviews. All guesses though.
- luckylion 4y ago
  > 2) On the page you linked, several of the reviewers (Thaddues Kelly Parks, Darren Meyer, and Adilson Vierra) gave a standard glowing review but only awarded 3 stars. Also to avoid suspicion? Others gave 4. The alternative explanation is: they're real people who are terrible with technology and the internet. I've run a site where people could rate their experience with others, and the correlation between stars and text was only so-so. Lots of people considered 1 to be best, even though clicking on 1 showed a text "Terrible" just below it. 3 Stars was actually pretty common for glowing reviews. Everybody keeps forgetting that lots of people write reviews, especially when you ask them to ("hey, if you liked it here, please recommend us on Google Maps"), and some of those people will be the kind who gets these Amazon questions from other customers and reply "I'm sorry, I don't know how well they fit, I bought these pants for my son but he blew up the chicken coop and hadn't had time to wear the pants yet".

Dorcy64 4y ago

I have constantly received emails(~monthly) from companies advertising these services to my business. The packages they always advertise are as follows: 1. 10 Google Reviews, 50 – 100 Words, REAL Active Profiles, Local Profiles, Drip Feed Method, 24/7 Ticket Support, for $94.99 2. 20 Google Reviews, 50 – 100 Words, REAL Active Profiles, Local Profiles, Drip Feed Method, 24/7 Ticket Support, for $179.99 I always assumed that if you have bad reviews, the go-to was to either change how you operate, change your business name, or do both.

TheCaptain4815 4y ago

My time to shine as someone who's pretty deep in this game. There's an enormous and growing market of fake GBPs for the purpose of selling leads called Local SEO Lead Gen. (each entity can bring in thousands of dollars/month.) The thinking is why go through the headache of dealing with clients who can fire you the day after they begin ranking (Local SEO is heavily "front loaded" work wise), will always try undercutting you on price, etc, when you can CREATE YOUR OWN entity, get that ranked and then SELL the leads to that plumber. You're the one with 100% control and if the plumber isn't happy, there's a dozen others who'll gladly take those leads. Advanced lead gen owners use software such as MultiLogin along with mobile proxy farms to have hundreds of separate Chrome "entities" saved, all using different proxies, their own cookies, etc. This along with an infinite amount of other tools for call tracking, CTR manipulation, etc. Mobile proxies have really changed the game, giving these lead gen folks an advantage. Because of the nature of mobile proxies (where multiple people can "share an IP address"), it's more difficult to detect. Since EACH GBP entity can bring in thousands/month, it's miniscule in terms of cost. Reviews? Laughably easy to purchase and outsource, starting around $5/review. Combine this with fake Dalle images to attach to the review and/or GBP itself, and things can only get worse from here. Google has actually begun VIDEO verification where you literally have to facetime with a Google employee to verify you own the business you say you own... even this can be gamed since any type of manual verification will be outsourced. Oh and the real masters of this business model? Well they don't bother SELLING the leads to contractors, they will quite literally start their own company and will hire their own plumbers, electricians, concrete crews, etc to squeeze as much profit as possible.

fellellor 4y ago
Maybe this is why Google will lobby the government to restrict the distribution of open source AI models. https://twitter.com/jonst0kes/status/1618705267801325568?s=61&t=sp6PY2PCiFLvb3cWufqTDw https://twitter.com/jonst0kes/status/1618705267801325568?s=6...
cobertos 4y ago
The video calls must be new. When I first made a Google My Business profile, there was no verification. Not even address verification. And then I couldn't get the listing delisted from Google either (my friend made a prank listing). At some point they added postcard by mail verification. Then they added having to upload documents (articles of organization, pictures of store). And then the last time my account got suspended I had to make a video showing the above as well as including the cross streets in the video. It doesn't surprise me so many people are gaming this system because it's effectively a free pass to the top of local Google searches as well as getting into Maps searches.

kris_wayton 4y ago

I remember this being especially bad for certain niches like locksmiths. In that space, someone would create fake businesses and then take the leads they got via phone, email, websites, etc, and then refer the business to some actual locksmith. With probably heavy mark-up to cover the referral fee.

jaycroft 4y ago
Oh wow, see my other comment in another thread. I had a ridiculously bad experience trying to get a key fob made last week - all the numbers would lead me around in circles, then I'd get "spam caller" numbers calling me telling me they were on their way. Switching to Yelp reviews seemed to solve the problem for locksmiths in particular, and I really can't figure out why...
- jaycroft 4y ago
  Replying to myself to add: for any other household service I probably wouldn't have even noticed. But, being in a vulnerable position, having sketchy locksmith services really freaked me out. You want my address and credit card info and also know that I have a disabled vehicle potentially outside of my garage? No thanks, not taking any extra chances here.
cynusx 4y ago
It's worse actually, people create GMB accounts for their competitors and list their phone number. Anyway, aren't they doing address verification with snail mail nowadays?
- kris_wayton 4y ago
  They get around address verification with mailbox rentals at places like the UPS store, or other places like it.

Amrabat 4y ago

[flagged]

sairahul82 4y ago

These fake reviews are easier to identify. No profile photo, they typically have one or two 5 star reviews. If you click on few reviews of a business and if you see this pattern then most likely they are fake. In the past I want to choose a mover and this particular business has 4.9 stars with over 300 reviews. There is no way a mover can have this rating. I clicked on atleast 50 reviewers and all of them have only one review and it is a 5 star one. For some reason Google doesn’t care. I tried to complain about a particular review but there is no option to indicate the kind.

kspacewalk2 4y ago
Your fake-meter is trivially easy to bypass with a few 3- and 4-star reviews and a fake DALL-E profile photo. This is already seen quite often in the wild.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
troydavis 4y ago
Some of the fake reviews are much better. Here's one for "Seattle Metro Heating and Cooling Services," which doesn't exist. One of this account's other fake reviews includes a photo (https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/113396308112481697373/reviews/ https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/113396308112481697373/re...): > We had a weird circumstance where we were out of town for an extended time and our HVAC unit quit working during a massive heat spell. Access to the house had to be coordinated and the bill had to be paid remotely. None of that was an issue for Roy, who was able to get out and repair the problem super quickly and for a completely reasonable amount. This is our first time using Seattle Metro Heating & Cooling Services. The experience was so positive that they will be our go-to HVAC professional from here on out.
- citizenpaul 4y ago
  Its a lead farm the review may be real but still worthless. The named business does not exist but there is some sort of lead company that has local contracts and randomly assigns the job to some random guy that says he is HVAC cerified. Nearly all locksmith, towing and moving company listings are like this now. Its basically automating fly by night contractors. The paying customers will find the guarantees and warrantee are worthless.

0___0 4y ago

"I recently had the pleasure of being a patient"

wintermutestwin 4y ago

Algorithmic and AI failures like this are starting to pave the way towards curation by skilled knowledge workers. Is anyone actually working on this again?

visarga 4y ago

chatGPT hallucinates, Google shows fakes, not very different. Nobody can solve this problem

fragmede 4y ago
Wikipedia may not be perfect but I trust what it shows me. Maybe a bit naive but I'm sure I'm not the only one.
- visarga 4y ago
  Yeah, thanks, I forgot to add Wikipedia to the list. It is a great resource but there are many forces trying to change it to suit their needs. And even scientific papers often contradict each other, they are also good quality but far from delivering truth. At least in some fields, papers are just throwing random ideas to the wall seeing what sticks. We don't even have proper theories to guide this process.

fallingmeat 4y ago

Do your part- make a review and put a dent in

bashari 4y ago

[flagged]

sumoboy 4y ago

Gaming the system never ends. I recall reading like 2 years ago where someone would drive around in a car with 50+ smartphones asking google maps for directions to pump up business rankings for GMB.

flownoon 4y ago

I got scammed by this exact type of thing when I needed a tow truck ASAP to jump my car. They had a fake business <1 mile away with lots of good reviews. After giving them my credit card info right away and after a long delay, I gave it more scrutiny and realized it was definitely a fake business. I called multiple times to figure out where the F$&@ my tow truck was, each time talking to a different person with a filipino accent. An impressively sophisticated scam, Im not sure how google could fight it

mistrial9 4y ago
pay after you get the service
- jeffbee 4y ago
  Use the magic phrase: I’ll pay cash. All legit trades people strongly prefer cash, and you can’t get scammed out of it over the phone.
bryceacc 4y ago
get AAA, and also credit card over the phone? I would have stopped there
- wolongong942 4y ago
  That's how most legitimate tow companies take payment if you aren't already registered.
  - seb1204 4y ago
    Mobile credit devices are very common. Some are the size of a coaster and connect to you mobile device of choice. Pay on arrival.
- computerex 4y ago
  AAA has been utterly useless. In the past 2 times I needed a tow, they couldn't arrange one in a timely manner, with lots of delays and miscommunications.

Denatonium 4y ago

I got a COVID test at a local independent pharmacy. This same "Right Way Laboratory" processed the results and billed my health insurance company over $500 per test.

mgerdts 4y ago
I got a COVID test from UW Hospitals and Clinics in Madison WI. This is a huge academic medical organization with tens of clinics scattered in all parts of the city and millions of square feet of hospital space. I had to drive about 40 minutes to a drive through location beyond the other side of town. They also billed my insurance over $500. Assuming you got accurate results in a timely manner, you got the better deal by not having to leave your neighborhood.

RajT88 4y ago

Fake for a different reason, but I came across this a while back, where the local fishermen were having a laugh. Lake O'Hare https://maps.app.goo.gl/P66Y8QQfbu2aWjwMA https://maps.app.goo.gl/P66Y8QQfbu2aWjwMA

twelve40 4y ago

I recently ran into fake business on doordash of all places. I was in a hurry and ordered without reading too much. An hour and a half later canceled with a full refund from DD. Got curious and drove to the listed restaurant in person, it turned out to be some bank building. So it wasn't even a duplicate or impostor, it never existed. Since I got my money back, I'm assuming they are trying to scam doordash itself...

themitigating 4y ago
How though? Does Doordash instantly send the restaurant the money or is it like after a few days?
- twelve40 4y ago
  That's the part i'm not sure about. The menu looked totally legit, the phone number turned out some random person in Vegas (after i bothered actually calling). Someone took their time to set this up.
  - cyberlurker 4y ago
    Maybe money laundering front?
- ericpauley 4y ago
  What I’ve heard from people in the service industry is that tons of pickup orders never even get picked up. Maybe they’re banking on some percentage of delivery orders not even noticing that no food arrives? Still, seems highly unlikely to work out.
citizenpaul 4y ago
>doordash of all places Doordash is into extremely sketchy territory. Here is a good link if you want to know more.also read the top rated comment from former grubhub executive. https://www.readmargins.com/p/doordash-and-pizza-arbitrage https://www.readmargins.com/p/doordash-and-pizza-arbitrage

cc101 4y ago

I'm appalled. These comments are pretty confusing for someone like me who has no domain knowledge. Any public spirited hacker out there who wants to synthesize this material?

klabb3 4y ago

Taking a step back, we rely on countless systems every day where some reasonable proof-of-personhood is critical for the application, yet our countermeasures are best-effort in-house fraud prevention relying on security-by-obscurity. I suspect virtually all systems of today are ripe for exploitation in a rapidly evolving cat-and-mouse game. We’re in the early stages of a dirt cheap, sophisticated AI content generation revolution. Yet, our rhetoric suggests that these are minor, isolated issues with specific companies. I’m wondering if it’s time to properly categorize these attacks as a separate and omnipresent danger to computer systems that process and distribute human input, and take it seriously. (Is there already a term for this? Sybil-attacks?) Are security researchers or academia largely overlooking an elephant in the room? Maybe I live under a rock, but I haven’t seen any interesting movement in analyzing, much less mitigating, these threats systematically. Specifically, I fear the huge boost in human-imitation AI will shift the scales in favor of gray/black actors, due to reduced general trust-levels (as if they weren’t already low). If fake reviews cost $5 today, but $.01 tomorrow, there’s simply no way our dams will hold to that pressure. We really need some answers on how to navigate the upcoming sea of bullshit, or we’ll regress quickly into a world that’s disorienting at best, for good actors, and offers plenty exploitation by bad actors.

asdadsdad 4y ago
You're right. It is an issue and a lot of players and researchers are already into it in an area called "Trust & Safety". However, these are problems that pertain to platforms as opposed to other tech enterprises, and as such, they are mostly dominated by these companies interests and strategies. E.g. it can be argued that misleading advertisement is still good business for GoogleAds or Meta. Refer to a discussion here on HN along the lines of "the optimal amount of fraud is non-zero" to get a better idea of the sort of thing I'm talking about. Moreover, aside from being problems of the closed platforms we chose to be the "winners" of the Internet most people use, it looks like the companies don't want any help in solving them, or won't make it any easier. A lot of people has done research on fake instagram accounts, for instance. It now got almost impossible to have API access to followers/following ratio or even scrape it, which is a key metric in that research. Anyway, I digress, but yes, it's an issue, it's a proper issue of platforms that take human input, and it's one they don't want our help.

BeautifulOrb 4y ago

I was scammed by a plumber with this scheme, dozens of fake reviews. No recourse. And the listing is still there, no way to remove it.

thorawayz 4y ago

Reminds me of the "crazy" conspiracy theory about child trafficking and the "Aquariums" found all across Google Maps. https://old.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/wu53h3/anons_discover_mysterious_texas_aquariums/ https://old.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/wu53h3/anons_discove...

gashad 4y ago

I researched duct cleaners recently and found a similar set of dubious businesses. There are several businesses named "American Air Duct Cleaning of [insert city name]". Google Maps has 70-120 5 star reviews. They all say things like “David and Oscar did a great job”…. from Florida to Texas to other states... always David and/or Oscar for each place! All the reviews are in the last 6 months or so. All the reviews are relatively unique and the reviewers are not new Google reviewers… there’s definitely some sort of weird Google Review scam going on here. All the websites say “Family/Locally Owned & Operated" yet they're identical web pages. I'm surprised by how unsophisticated the approach appears. Interesting to see the problem is not limited to duct cleaning businesses.

7to2 4y ago

I think society will eventually be forced to adopt the broker model often featured in dystopian media. People will no longer trust big corporations and instead refer to local fixers and information brokers to get the information they need (for a fee of course). "Need a real plumber? Well here's a good one for 5$. A competent lawyer? 50$ and I'll tell you." The sad thing is that big corporations won't fix this problem unless they are allowed to fully compromise everyone's privacy. The can solve it in another way, but they won't. This is a people problem and requires people solutions (Governments).

bandyaboot 4y ago

I’ve run into this when looking for an hvac contractor to do some work in my basement. Was just going through the listings and making a bunch of calls. It was definitely annoying encountering all the fake “store fronts”, but I also found that just by talking to them and asking a couple questions, it was super obvious which ones were fake and which ones were legit.

therealdrag0 4y ago
As a noob homeowner. What questions did you ask?
- bandyaboot 4y ago
  It’s possible my case was a bit unique in how obvious it was. I was specifically looking to find a small local shop or independent contractor just to do a walk through/consult on expanding the bare bones hvac setup in the basement for finishing. I was doing the work myself but wanted expert input so I could try to avoid the common problem in cold climates of basement living spaces being significantly colder than the rest of the house. Independent contractors are easy. Many are just listed under their names, and even if they use a business name, their business number is almost always just the cell phone. When you call they’ll either not answer and you have to leave a voicemail to get a call back, or if they do answer, they’ll pick up with something like “this is <insert name>”. So for them you don’t even need to ask anything. When calling a number that is supposedly a small shop, I found that when I told them what I was wanting and asked “is that something you would do?”, the fake ones would immediately say yes. The legit places would ask follow up questions, or if it was an office worker, they would have one of their techs call me back.

Kelvinwiard 4y ago

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faebi 4y ago

I see the same thing going on Youtube. Not just one spam account, but whole networks with hundreds of accounts dominating one comment section. All building one coherent story to scam people. It's often the most liked comments having 10x more upvotes than others. These are in the 100's and 1000's of upvotes.

therook12 4y ago

I own a real locksmith business in Albany, NY. The legit companies here are getting killed with bot farm reviews. I get multiple daily. They are going to town. I believe it is a scammer company here paying for it. Said scammer company also turns out to be the Google Guaranteed company lol. Can’t make this stuff up. Like a dozen fake negative reviews a week. Its taken me years to build a good reputation and now its being completely destroyed with fake reviews that go so low as to insult my manhood.

EvelynFrank 4y ago

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mirabel-stephen 4y ago

I shouldn’t be saying this here but to be honest this hacker should be reviewed, I just used his services, and he’s the best, experience and ethical. Contact him for any hacking and recovery support via email, (expertwisehacker@gmail.com") you can tell him I referred you.

ellenotlean 4y ago
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ellenotlean 4y ago
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mirabel-stephen 4y ago