4 ms·

Apple Has So Far Avoided Layoffs: Lean Hiring, No Free Lunches

41 points by dangle1 4y ago

dangle1 4y ago
https://archive.ph/LH6aP https://archive.ph/LH6aP
homarp 4y ago
https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/01/20/layoffs-in-some-of-apples-retail-channels-have-begun https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/01/20/layoffs-in-some-o...
antipaul 4y ago
Respect. Also in article: “The last big round of layoffs at Apple happened way back in 1997, when co-founder Steve Jobs returned to the company, which then cut costs by firing 4,100 employees.“
- mistrial9 4y ago
  they don't mention the other thousand people that fled
crazygringo 4y ago
> But the iPhone maker has been better positioned than many rivals to date in part because it added employees at a much slower clip than those companies during the pandemic. I wonder to what extent that was what Apple meant to do, vs. to what extent it was forced on Apple because of supply-chain constraints? Apple was constrained by Chinese manufacturing in a way that software tech companies weren't. Maybe lean hiring plays a part and maybe it doesn't, but I'm pretty sure "no free lunches" has nothing to do with it.
- ksec 4y ago
  >I wonder to what extent that was what Apple meant to do, May be I am missing some context, what has slowed down of iPhone manufacturing or hardware capacity constrain got to do with "over hiring"? Especially in the Software department side of things?
  - KyeRussell 4y ago
    This is well-illustrated by that Delta(?) promo that got shared around the internet a few years ago that (without authorisation I believe) touted the number of Apple employees they were shuttling to and from China on a *daily^ basis. For a layperson like me, this sort of day-in day-out contact with the supply chain puts this justification will within the realm of reason. I also can’t imagine that “hardware” and “software” teams aren’t in complete isolation. At the very least, being a more hardware-focused company potentially affects Apple’s overall company culture in a way that would have this impact on their hiring practices.
    - mijkal 4y ago
      For the record, United Airlines leaked that. (Though Apple could have similar provisions with other airlines — we just don't know.) https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/01/11/apple-spends-150m-a-year-on-united-flights-shanghai-is-no-1-destination https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/01/11/apple-spends-150m...
  - crazygringo 4y ago
    At its essence, a slowdown in manufacturing means a slowdown in revenue, which means less money to pay employees. The software side is being funded in large part by the hardware side if you look at Apple's finances as a whole. When revenue isn't what you'd forecasted, that's not the time to increase hiring. Obviously it can be more complex/flexible than that with regards to a cash pile, being able to borrow money, etc., but it still generally holds. It would be unusual for any long-established business to be ramping up hiring at the same time that supply constraints are diminishing revenue.
    - signatoremo 4y ago
      The software side is funded by how big the market is for Apple products, which is accumulated over the year, not how well the hardware sales is for a given period. Just because hardware sales for 2021 was slow, for example, doesn’t mean software and services sales are slow accordingly. > It would be unusual for any long-established business to be ramping up hiring at the same time that supply constraints are diminishing revenue. This is not unusual at all. When hardware sales is down company often want to compensate by increasing software sales, that likely means uptick in hiring. In fact that’s one of the strength of Apple. They can weather worsen market conditions thanks to their diversified product and services portfolio.
- 56friends 4y ago
  Apple is also in a less speculative business (hardware), so their hiring practices are more conservative. While they started investing more into software and services recently, these departments are much smaller than something like Meta or Google.
  - pokerhobo 4y ago
    Does that include however big their teams are who have been working on an EV and AR glasses for a long time?
- etempleton 4y ago
  Apple has acted like the grown ups in the room for the better part of 15 years. I also think Steve, for all his flaws, was pretty anti layoffs as you inevitably lose good people.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
cultofmetatron 4y ago
I'm pretty sure the "no free lunches" hardly affects the bottom line compared to avoiding the overhead of bureaucratic complexity from managing lots of people. thats just thrown in there to push a narrative to lower standards of worker compensation.
- startupsfail 4y ago
  It is the culture that makes the difference. Although, it is not like Apple haven’t had giant layoffs in the past.
  - smugma 4y ago
    Not this millennium.
  - readonthegoapp 4y ago
    Isn't amazon supposed to be famously frugal? But they also just laid off a billion people?
pokerhobo 4y ago
This headline reminds me of this article from 2 months back: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/23/google-has-avoided-mass-layoffs-but-employees-worry-theyre-coming.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/23/google-has-avoided-mass-layo...
- Terretta 4y ago
  In both the headline and the first bullet: "Google employees say there’s growing anxiety internally that layoffs may be coming." Very different take, though Apple article does have this in the final <p>: "[A] research analyst … expects Apple to reduce head count, [and speculates] it might do that quietly through employee attrition—by not replacing workers who leave."
Beaver117 4y ago
Maybe Apple had some heads up about the chip shortage and adjusted hiring plans accordingly
twelve40 4y ago
Welcome news, enough with that crazy BS already. But, of course, this was the actual crazy part: > 2019 to 2022 ... employee count at Amazon doubled, Microsoft’s rose 53%, Google parent Alphabet Inc.’s increased 57% and Facebook owner Meta’s ballooned 94% ...and now we get to suffer for that greed (

41 points by dangle1 4y ago

https://archive.ph/LH6aP https://archive.ph/LH6aP

https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/01/20/layoffs-in-some-of-apples-retail-channels-have-begun https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/01/20/layoffs-in-some-o...

antipaul 4y ago

Respect. Also in article: “The last big round of layoffs at Apple happened way back in 1997, when co-founder Steve Jobs returned to the company, which then cut costs by firing 4,100 employees.“

mistrial9 4y ago
they don't mention the other thousand people that fled

crazygringo 4y ago

> But the iPhone maker has been better positioned than many rivals to date in part because it added employees at a much slower clip than those companies during the pandemic. I wonder to what extent that was what Apple meant to do, vs. to what extent it was forced on Apple because of supply-chain constraints? Apple was constrained by Chinese manufacturing in a way that software tech companies weren't. Maybe lean hiring plays a part and maybe it doesn't, but I'm pretty sure "no free lunches" has nothing to do with it.

ksec 4y ago
>I wonder to what extent that was what Apple meant to do, May be I am missing some context, what has slowed down of iPhone manufacturing or hardware capacity constrain got to do with "over hiring"? Especially in the Software department side of things?
- KyeRussell 4y ago
  This is well-illustrated by that Delta(?) promo that got shared around the internet a few years ago that (without authorisation I believe) touted the number of Apple employees they were shuttling to and from China on a *daily^ basis. For a layperson like me, this sort of day-in day-out contact with the supply chain puts this justification will within the realm of reason. I also can’t imagine that “hardware” and “software” teams aren’t in complete isolation. At the very least, being a more hardware-focused company potentially affects Apple’s overall company culture in a way that would have this impact on their hiring practices.
  - mijkal 4y ago
    For the record, United Airlines leaked that. (Though Apple could have similar provisions with other airlines — we just don't know.) https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/01/11/apple-spends-150m-a-year-on-united-flights-shanghai-is-no-1-destination https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/01/11/apple-spends-150m...
- crazygringo 4y ago
  At its essence, a slowdown in manufacturing means a slowdown in revenue, which means less money to pay employees. The software side is being funded in large part by the hardware side if you look at Apple's finances as a whole. When revenue isn't what you'd forecasted, that's not the time to increase hiring. Obviously it can be more complex/flexible than that with regards to a cash pile, being able to borrow money, etc., but it still generally holds. It would be unusual for any long-established business to be ramping up hiring at the same time that supply constraints are diminishing revenue.
  - signatoremo 4y ago
    The software side is funded by how big the market is for Apple products, which is accumulated over the year, not how well the hardware sales is for a given period. Just because hardware sales for 2021 was slow, for example, doesn’t mean software and services sales are slow accordingly. > It would be unusual for any long-established business to be ramping up hiring at the same time that supply constraints are diminishing revenue. This is not unusual at all. When hardware sales is down company often want to compensate by increasing software sales, that likely means uptick in hiring. In fact that’s one of the strength of Apple. They can weather worsen market conditions thanks to their diversified product and services portfolio.
56friends 4y ago
Apple is also in a less speculative business (hardware), so their hiring practices are more conservative. While they started investing more into software and services recently, these departments are much smaller than something like Meta or Google.
- pokerhobo 4y ago
  Does that include however big their teams are who have been working on an EV and AR glasses for a long time?
etempleton 4y ago
Apple has acted like the grown ups in the room for the better part of 15 years. I also think Steve, for all his flaws, was pretty anti layoffs as you inevitably lose good people.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

cultofmetatron 4y ago

I'm pretty sure the "no free lunches" hardly affects the bottom line compared to avoiding the overhead of bureaucratic complexity from managing lots of people. thats just thrown in there to push a narrative to lower standards of worker compensation.

startupsfail 4y ago
It is the culture that makes the difference. Although, it is not like Apple haven’t had giant layoffs in the past.
- smugma 4y ago
  Not this millennium.
- readonthegoapp 4y ago
  Isn't amazon supposed to be famously frugal? But they also just laid off a billion people?

pokerhobo 4y ago

This headline reminds me of this article from 2 months back: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/23/google-has-avoided-mass-layoffs-but-employees-worry-theyre-coming.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/23/google-has-avoided-mass-layo...

Terretta 4y ago
In both the headline and the first bullet: "Google employees say there’s growing anxiety internally that layoffs may be coming." Very different take, though Apple article does have this in the final <p>: "[A] research analyst … expects Apple to reduce head count, [and speculates] it might do that quietly through employee attrition—by not replacing workers who leave."

Beaver117 4y ago

Maybe Apple had some heads up about the chip shortage and adjusted hiring plans accordingly

twelve40 4y ago

Welcome news, enough with that crazy BS already. But, of course, this was the actual crazy part: > 2019 to 2022 ... employee count at Amazon doubled, Microsoft’s rose 53%, Google parent Alphabet Inc.’s increased 57% and Facebook owner Meta’s ballooned 94% ...and now we get to suffer for that greed (