4 ms·

Yes, that seems to be a consideration. From the article: In a report peer reviewed and distributed by the Royal Statistical Society (RSS) in September 2022, Gi

Yes, that seems to be a consideration. From the article: In a report peer reviewed and distributed by the Royal Statistical Society (RSS) in September 2022, Gill and colleagues detailed the statistical missteps in past medical murder trials and made recommendations for how legal systems can do better. Gill hopes the report will help with the case of another British nurse, Lucy Letby, who is now on trial for the alleged murder of seven babies and attempted murder of 10 more in a neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital.

extasia 4y ago
I thought Lucy letby literally had a confession note at her house? [0] It seems this was in fact the case. I agree with your broader point however. 0. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/lucy-letby-nurse-note-picture-b2202448.html?amp https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/lucy-letby-nurse...
- lazyasciiart 4y ago
  I don't know anything about her, but that suicide note also says "I haven't done anything wrong", which indicates at best confusion on her part.
  - h0l0cube 4y ago
    How tragic would it be if someone’s deep empathic nature made them feel personally responsible for a death beyond their control – to the point of suicidal ideation - and was then imprisoned for it?
    - eyelidlessness 4y ago
      Too common and too tragic.
    - WeylandYutani 4y ago
      There was a case in the Netherlands in which they got a nurse to confess to a killing spree. Unfortunately it is impossible to explain to people that a confession is meaningless.
      - api 4y ago
        Good investigators withhold details about a crime from the public mostly to filter out false confessions. This speaks to the fact that false confessions are common enough to make filtering techniques common practice.
        Eleison23 4y ago
        That's not the only goal. This also reduces the effectiveness of copycat crimes, and differentiates any would-be copycats from the original. Also, it enhances the ability of authorities to receive and authenticate tips from the general public. In fact, in a high-profile case, it's common practice to deliberately plant misinformation in the form of slight immaterial errors, for many of the same purposes.
        smolder 4y ago
        Can you stop writing these garbage GPT comments, please? No one wants to waste time reading this shit.
      - ArnoVW 4y ago
        I think you're talking about Lucia de B. The first sentence of the article : When a Dutch nurse named Lucia de Berk... In fact, she never confessed. As per her Wikipedia page: Important evidence at the appeal was to be the statement of a detainee in the Pieter Baan Center, a criminal psychological observation unit, where de Berk had said during outdoor exercise, "I released these 13 people from their suffering". However, during the appeal, the man withdrew his statement and stated that he had made it up.
    - roxgib 4y ago
      The Australian case mentioned in the article had a similar theme. Kathleen Folbigg wrote diary entries blaming herself for her kids' deaths, and these were interpreted as admissions of guilt (in fairness they could definitely be read that way). She had four of her own children die of undetermined causes and was basically convicted on the diary entries and the improbability of them all dying. Has been a long and ongoing public debate here (she's still in jail).
      - jonny_eh 4y ago
        Apparently there's new evidence that a gene mutation may have been to blame, and she could be released soon: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/13/australian-mother-jailed-for-baby-deaths-should-finally-be-cleared-say-scientists https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/13/australian-m... The evidence in her case does seem too circumstantial to convict, a real injustice.
    - lelanthran 4y ago
      > How tragic would it be if someone’s deep empathic nature made them feel personally responsible for a death beyond their control – to the point of suicidal ideation - and was then imprisoned for it? Haven't you ever read The Green Mile?
      - h0l0cube 4y ago
        I haven't, but I think, outside of fiction, history is littered with examples of these kinds of witch hunts happening. What bothers me is that now, more than ever, we know about these outcomes – and as you point out there's even neo-folklore about them – and yet we haven't progressed enough as a species to stop them happening.
- chrischen 4y ago
  Assuming those kids did die in her care the notes do sound like anguish rather than guilt.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  That sounds like a troubled, mentally unwell person? Let’s say someone who’s mentally unwell wrote notes to confess to crimes, is it enough to convict them based on that evidence alone? And if so, should it be?
  - aidenn0 4y ago
    In the US, at least, a confession is always considered sufficient evidence. It probably shouldn't be, since interrogators have managed to get people to confess to crimes that evidence was later found to exonerate.
    - public_defender 4y ago
      This is not true. Many states have what is called a corpus delicti rule, which requires that a confession be corroborated by other evidence in order to sustain a conviction. I am inclined to assert that this is actually the law in most US states, but I haven't researched it.
      - watwut 4y ago
        The other evidence can be quite weak. And fairly often it is pseudoscience.
        public_defender 4y ago
        Of course I agree with that. It's not an argument for relying more heavily on confession "evidence."
      - aidenn0 4y ago
        IANAL, but I thought corpus delicti only means there needs to be evidence that the crime has been committed, not that the crime has been committed by the person confessing to it. So if they find a body with multiple stab wounds and I go in and say I stabbed the person, I can be convicted. If I say I murdered Audrey Farber, and the police can't even find a record of an Audrey Farber gone missing, then I can't be convicted because there's no evidence than an Audrey Farber was murdered at all.

extasia 4y ago

I thought Lucy letby literally had a confession note at her house? [0] It seems this was in fact the case. I agree with your broader point however. 0. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/lucy-letby-nurse-note-picture-b2202448.html?amp https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/lucy-letby-nurse...

lazyasciiart 4y ago
I don't know anything about her, but that suicide note also says "I haven't done anything wrong", which indicates at best confusion on her part.
- h0l0cube 4y ago
  How tragic would it be if someone’s deep empathic nature made them feel personally responsible for a death beyond their control – to the point of suicidal ideation - and was then imprisoned for it?
  - eyelidlessness 4y ago
    Too common and too tragic.
  - WeylandYutani 4y ago
    There was a case in the Netherlands in which they got a nurse to confess to a killing spree. Unfortunately it is impossible to explain to people that a confession is meaningless.
    - api 4y ago
      Good investigators withhold details about a crime from the public mostly to filter out false confessions. This speaks to the fact that false confessions are common enough to make filtering techniques common practice.
      - Eleison23 4y ago
        That's not the only goal. This also reduces the effectiveness of copycat crimes, and differentiates any would-be copycats from the original. Also, it enhances the ability of authorities to receive and authenticate tips from the general public. In fact, in a high-profile case, it's common practice to deliberately plant misinformation in the form of slight immaterial errors, for many of the same purposes.
        smolder 4y ago
        Can you stop writing these garbage GPT comments, please? No one wants to waste time reading this shit.
    - ArnoVW 4y ago
      I think you're talking about Lucia de B. The first sentence of the article : When a Dutch nurse named Lucia de Berk... In fact, she never confessed. As per her Wikipedia page: Important evidence at the appeal was to be the statement of a detainee in the Pieter Baan Center, a criminal psychological observation unit, where de Berk had said during outdoor exercise, "I released these 13 people from their suffering". However, during the appeal, the man withdrew his statement and stated that he had made it up.
  - roxgib 4y ago
    The Australian case mentioned in the article had a similar theme. Kathleen Folbigg wrote diary entries blaming herself for her kids' deaths, and these were interpreted as admissions of guilt (in fairness they could definitely be read that way). She had four of her own children die of undetermined causes and was basically convicted on the diary entries and the improbability of them all dying. Has been a long and ongoing public debate here (she's still in jail).
    - jonny_eh 4y ago
      Apparently there's new evidence that a gene mutation may have been to blame, and she could be released soon: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/13/australian-mother-jailed-for-baby-deaths-should-finally-be-cleared-say-scientists https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/13/australian-m... The evidence in her case does seem too circumstantial to convict, a real injustice.
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    > How tragic would it be if someone’s deep empathic nature made them feel personally responsible for a death beyond their control – to the point of suicidal ideation - and was then imprisoned for it? Haven't you ever read The Green Mile?
    - h0l0cube 4y ago
      I haven't, but I think, outside of fiction, history is littered with examples of these kinds of witch hunts happening. What bothers me is that now, more than ever, we know about these outcomes – and as you point out there's even neo-folklore about them – and yet we haven't progressed enough as a species to stop them happening.
chrischen 4y ago
Assuming those kids did die in her care the notes do sound like anguish rather than guilt.
Nextgrid 4y ago
That sounds like a troubled, mentally unwell person? Let’s say someone who’s mentally unwell wrote notes to confess to crimes, is it enough to convict them based on that evidence alone? And if so, should it be?
- aidenn0 4y ago
  In the US, at least, a confession is always considered sufficient evidence. It probably shouldn't be, since interrogators have managed to get people to confess to crimes that evidence was later found to exonerate.
  - public_defender 4y ago
    This is not true. Many states have what is called a corpus delicti rule, which requires that a confession be corroborated by other evidence in order to sustain a conviction. I am inclined to assert that this is actually the law in most US states, but I haven't researched it.
    - watwut 4y ago
      The other evidence can be quite weak. And fairly often it is pseudoscience.
      - public_defender 4y ago
        Of course I agree with that. It's not an argument for relying more heavily on confession "evidence."
    - aidenn0 4y ago
      IANAL, but I thought corpus delicti only means there needs to be evidence that the crime has been committed, not that the crime has been committed by the person confessing to it. So if they find a body with multiple stab wounds and I go in and say I stabbed the person, I can be convicted. If I say I murdered Audrey Farber, and the police can't even find a record of an Audrey Farber gone missing, then I can't be convicted because there's no evidence than an Audrey Farber was murdered at all.