7 ms·

Thanks to the author for taking the time to write this up. I think it is a fairly realistic description of what the process is like for an engineer who has spen

Thanks to the author for taking the time to write this up. I think it is a fairly realistic description of what the process is like for an engineer who has spent several years working in Silicon Valley at a well-known company. The key takeaways, coming from someone with a similar background: * Rely heavily on your personal network to both identify worthwhile opportunities and for referrals which, in the Before Times, pretty much guaranteed an interview * It's worth thinking through what type of job would make you happy _before_ you get an exploding offer * They had a _full_ pipeline, interviewing every day for three weeks straight. It's a grind, but you definitely get "in the zone". Additionally, setting this goal ensures that you are being properly proactive/aggressive in pursuing opportunities. * You will probably see a design interview at any FAANG or hot startup. The classic one I've seen like 5 times is "how would you design a social media feed?" I still do not know the "correct" answer to this question. I don't have hard evidence for this but it seems that the demand is still very strong for experienced engineering managers. I am curious to hear if the author interviewed for SWE positions or engineering manager positions have they have filled both roles in the past.

mhlakhani 4y ago
author here - glad to see this post on HN, and glad you liked it! re: your last question - I interviewed for both SWE and EM positions, depending on what was available at any given company. At companies that had both roles open, I talked to folks to understand what they expected out of EMs vs engineers, as it varied a lot - and then I picked whatever was more appealing to me. In aggregate I went for 70% SWE / 30% EM roles (roughly)
- veqq 4y ago
  > what they expected out of EMs vs engineers, as it varied a lot I'm curious about the rough models which exist.
  - ketzo 4y ago
    One of the most basic is “do your managers write code?” My first company out of college actually banned it as a practice - EMs were not allowed to be active contributors. I know at some companies, it’s actually a requirement, or at least heavily encouraged, for a manager to spend at least 20% time writing code. And then some places are a mixed bag. I can see both arguments! Just good to know that a company has a coherent philosophy on the issue.
  - theptip 4y ago
    Some models I've seen (I'm sure there are some other ones): Pure people manager - HR admin (compensation evaluation etc), professional development, project management, team resourcing, etc. Tend to see this less in very small companies. TLM (Tech Lead / Manager) - Does all of the above, plus also acts as a tech lead for the project - technical design, mentoring, and possibly some coding. Tend to see this less in very big companies. TLM are typically first-line managers, I've not seen a TLM that manages managers (i.e. Director level). Rarely, hybrid engineer/manager - Does all the above, plus expected to contribute significantly to coding. Honestly it's a red flag for me to see a team hiring for this archetype, in my opinion it's a pragmatic stopgap you might find yourself with as a small company, until you can hire an engineer or manager to split the role; it's not something you should explicitly hire for. Sometimes, product lead as "mini-CEO" - manages the team/org and owns product direction. Typically will have a tech lead on the team to own that side of things. This can grow into a Director position, managing the team managers and still owning the product function. Some archetyes for dedicated Staff engineers (typically the equivalent IC-track level to a team manager): https://staffeng.com/guides/staff-archetypes https://staffeng.com/guides/staff-archetypes
    - mhlakhani 4y ago
      thanks for hitting the nail on the head - this is what I saw. I was comfortable with TLM/pure people manager, but not the hybrid (been there, done that - it was rough).
shagie 4y ago
> The classic one I've seen like 5 times is "how would you design a social media feed?" I still do not know the "correct" answer to this question. There is no "correct" answer to it. It is an investigation into how you break the problem down and approach it. When presented with a challenge to it, how do you then look at it and consider how to solve it. The Codeless Code - Case 83 Consequences http://thecodelesscode.com/case/83?topic=interviews http://thecodelesscode.com/case/83?topic=interviews
- chucksmash 4y ago
  There sort of is though, right? At a meta level, making sure you touch on the points they want you to touch on ("is this workload read heavy or write heavy?", "fan out vs fan in", "eventual consistency") is a right answer that you phrase in the form of a series of questions designed to look as if you've never been asked the question before, yeah?
  - hgsgm 4y ago
    I'd the interviewers are competent (rare), then there are a dozen or more right answers, and getting 2 or 3 of them is passing.
nvarsj 4y ago
> They had a _full_ pipeline, interviewing every day for three weeks straight. I honestly think I'd be physically incapable of doing this. I'm on the HSP side and even a single set of interviews is enough to drive me into an insomnia/anxiety cycle for weeks. I can't even imagine what this would be like for me. Albeit I admit it's the best way to get the job you want. Maybe I'm in the wrong industry...
- nsxwolf 4y ago
  This is incredibly common. I hate running interviews - we do the leetcode whiteboard pressure cooker crap - it's a policy I have no say in unfortunately. I've had candidates with strong backgrounds go to pieces right in front of me - it's awful to watch and I hate that I had anything to do with making someone experience that. More people than you might imagine take Xanax to get through interviews.
  - mixmastamyk 4y ago
    Don't do it, unless you are also under surveillance? Say yes and then run your block more humanely.
    - robryan 4y ago
      Or if there is some freedom around questions pick something that can be worked through. The worst are questions where if you don't know the algorithm or data structure there is no way to work it out from first principles.
  - gymbeaux 4y ago
    Hmm Xanny… that’s not a bad idea.
  - nvarsj 4y ago
    > More people than you might imagine take Xanax to get through interviews. You know, that's actually a great idea I never thought about. I'll see if I can get a script next time I go through interview loops. Might make the process less hellish for me, I hope.
angarg12 4y ago
> * They had a _full_ pipeline, interviewing every day for three weeks straight. It's a grind, but you definitely get "in the zone". Additionally, setting this goal ensures that you are being properly proactive/aggressive in pursuing opportunities. As a married man nearing his 40s I can't imagine doing this. I need to keep my full time job to support my family, so just quit and focus 100% on prepping is not an option. Assuming a 5 1-hour round interview, I would need to take PTO or somehow juggle my calendar to take interviews. I'm horrified at the thought of taking one week off and doing interviews for 5 days straight. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  I've done a 5 1-hour round interview once, and have refused to do them since- including actively turning down a second interview when the process wasn't clear prior to the initial screener call. I've the good fortune of pretty much being able to pick and choose between jobs, but I also essentially have written off working at a FAANG and at companies run by former or wannabe FAANG engineers. Fortunately, there are still lots of good startups, small and medium sized companies that pay well and actually respect your time.
  - ramraj07 4y ago
    What was your ideal interview experience that you also considered to be very effective?
    - ornornor 4y ago
      Personally, 30–60 min HR screen/people stuff and 1h tech interview, with maybe an other hour or two of paid take home assignment. Along with past experience on CV this should be enough to assess whether a candidate is suitable for the 3 or 6 months probation employment. If after all this you still can’t decide whether the candidate is a match and worth keeping permanently post probation, your hiring and working processes are seriously broken. I don’t understand then need for multiple, hours long, dozen interviewers processes.
    - 4y ago

mhlakhani 4y ago

author here - glad to see this post on HN, and glad you liked it! re: your last question - I interviewed for both SWE and EM positions, depending on what was available at any given company. At companies that had both roles open, I talked to folks to understand what they expected out of EMs vs engineers, as it varied a lot - and then I picked whatever was more appealing to me. In aggregate I went for 70% SWE / 30% EM roles (roughly)

veqq 4y ago
> what they expected out of EMs vs engineers, as it varied a lot I'm curious about the rough models which exist.
- ketzo 4y ago
  One of the most basic is “do your managers write code?” My first company out of college actually banned it as a practice - EMs were not allowed to be active contributors. I know at some companies, it’s actually a requirement, or at least heavily encouraged, for a manager to spend at least 20% time writing code. And then some places are a mixed bag. I can see both arguments! Just good to know that a company has a coherent philosophy on the issue.
- theptip 4y ago
  Some models I've seen (I'm sure there are some other ones): Pure people manager - HR admin (compensation evaluation etc), professional development, project management, team resourcing, etc. Tend to see this less in very small companies. TLM (Tech Lead / Manager) - Does all of the above, plus also acts as a tech lead for the project - technical design, mentoring, and possibly some coding. Tend to see this less in very big companies. TLM are typically first-line managers, I've not seen a TLM that manages managers (i.e. Director level). Rarely, hybrid engineer/manager - Does all the above, plus expected to contribute significantly to coding. Honestly it's a red flag for me to see a team hiring for this archetype, in my opinion it's a pragmatic stopgap you might find yourself with as a small company, until you can hire an engineer or manager to split the role; it's not something you should explicitly hire for. Sometimes, product lead as "mini-CEO" - manages the team/org and owns product direction. Typically will have a tech lead on the team to own that side of things. This can grow into a Director position, managing the team managers and still owning the product function. Some archetyes for dedicated Staff engineers (typically the equivalent IC-track level to a team manager): https://staffeng.com/guides/staff-archetypes https://staffeng.com/guides/staff-archetypes
  - mhlakhani 4y ago
    thanks for hitting the nail on the head - this is what I saw. I was comfortable with TLM/pure people manager, but not the hybrid (been there, done that - it was rough).

shagie 4y ago

> The classic one I've seen like 5 times is "how would you design a social media feed?" I still do not know the "correct" answer to this question. There is no "correct" answer to it. It is an investigation into how you break the problem down and approach it. When presented with a challenge to it, how do you then look at it and consider how to solve it. The Codeless Code - Case 83 Consequences http://thecodelesscode.com/case/83?topic=interviews http://thecodelesscode.com/case/83?topic=interviews

chucksmash 4y ago
There sort of is though, right? At a meta level, making sure you touch on the points they want you to touch on ("is this workload read heavy or write heavy?", "fan out vs fan in", "eventual consistency") is a right answer that you phrase in the form of a series of questions designed to look as if you've never been asked the question before, yeah?
- hgsgm 4y ago
  I'd the interviewers are competent (rare), then there are a dozen or more right answers, and getting 2 or 3 of them is passing.

nvarsj 4y ago

> They had a _full_ pipeline, interviewing every day for three weeks straight. I honestly think I'd be physically incapable of doing this. I'm on the HSP side and even a single set of interviews is enough to drive me into an insomnia/anxiety cycle for weeks. I can't even imagine what this would be like for me. Albeit I admit it's the best way to get the job you want. Maybe I'm in the wrong industry...

nsxwolf 4y ago
This is incredibly common. I hate running interviews - we do the leetcode whiteboard pressure cooker crap - it's a policy I have no say in unfortunately. I've had candidates with strong backgrounds go to pieces right in front of me - it's awful to watch and I hate that I had anything to do with making someone experience that. More people than you might imagine take Xanax to get through interviews.
- mixmastamyk 4y ago
  Don't do it, unless you are also under surveillance? Say yes and then run your block more humanely.
  - robryan 4y ago
    Or if there is some freedom around questions pick something that can be worked through. The worst are questions where if you don't know the algorithm or data structure there is no way to work it out from first principles.
- gymbeaux 4y ago
  Hmm Xanny… that’s not a bad idea.
- nvarsj 4y ago
  > More people than you might imagine take Xanax to get through interviews. You know, that's actually a great idea I never thought about. I'll see if I can get a script next time I go through interview loops. Might make the process less hellish for me, I hope.

angarg12 4y ago

> * They had a _full_ pipeline, interviewing every day for three weeks straight. It's a grind, but you definitely get "in the zone". Additionally, setting this goal ensures that you are being properly proactive/aggressive in pursuing opportunities. As a married man nearing his 40s I can't imagine doing this. I need to keep my full time job to support my family, so just quit and focus 100% on prepping is not an option. Assuming a 5 1-hour round interview, I would need to take PTO or somehow juggle my calendar to take interviews. I'm horrified at the thought of taking one week off and doing interviews for 5 days straight. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

zdragnar 4y ago
I've done a 5 1-hour round interview once, and have refused to do them since- including actively turning down a second interview when the process wasn't clear prior to the initial screener call. I've the good fortune of pretty much being able to pick and choose between jobs, but I also essentially have written off working at a FAANG and at companies run by former or wannabe FAANG engineers. Fortunately, there are still lots of good startups, small and medium sized companies that pay well and actually respect your time.
- ramraj07 4y ago
  What was your ideal interview experience that you also considered to be very effective?
  - ornornor 4y ago
    Personally, 30–60 min HR screen/people stuff and 1h tech interview, with maybe an other hour or two of paid take home assignment. Along with past experience on CV this should be enough to assess whether a candidate is suitable for the 3 or 6 months probation employment. If after all this you still can’t decide whether the candidate is a match and worth keeping permanently post probation, your hiring and working processes are seriously broken. I don’t understand then need for multiple, hours long, dozen interviewers processes.
  - 4y ago