4 ms·

My days at work where I'm actively engaged in a task and feel like I got something done fly by, whereas the days where I have nothing to do and I'm refreshing H

by hbn 4y ago

My days at work where I'm actively engaged in a task and feel like I got something done fly by, whereas the days where I have nothing to do and I'm refreshing HN all day are not only boring but draining. Ironic that doing nothing makes you feel like you have no energy at the end of the day.

rgifford 4y ago
I guess it's all relative. To be honest, I would be over the moon to never "work" again. Don't wanna be needed, don't wanna have to report to anyone, don't wanna be part of a pyramid scheme earning some CEO or founder 50% of company payroll. I could very happily set and achieve little goals for the rest of my life -- in video games, education, little creative pursuits, and hobbies -- and never once look back. Really don't care for externally set goals or validation.
- xboxnolifes 4y ago
  I agree with you, but I also feel there is a huge difference between not working and doing nothing at work. The latter is way more draining to me.
  - cm2012 4y ago
    Yeah it's the middle area that's a killer.
  - theonething 4y ago
    Yes, the latter has a big guilt factor involved which for me, weighs me down heavily.
  - rgifford 4y ago
    Yeah, bullshitting is draining. I wonder, why? Sisyphus was condemned to aimlessly push a rock forever, but isn't that basically just the human condition? Most of us convince ourselves we're doing something, but it's narrative. Very little materializes, very rarely as intended. We like feedback and certainty in the face of randomness -- it's the attraction to slot machines. But musicians rarely predict their most popular songs (and sometimes come to hate 'em), founders toil away pivoting for years before they stumble on something that works (but most give up first), artists often only have their work recognized posthumously. I'm drawn to characters like Jerry in Parks and Rec or Stanley in the Office because they embrace the rock. They aren't revolutionizing or disrupting. In a certain way they're really very heroic. They meet the soul-crushing apathy and uncertainty of their place in the universe head on without complaints, excuses or lies. Though mocked and derided as lazy, incompetent fools they steadily carry on. They're stoics in a modern bureaucratic context. And really there's a certain beautiful zen to that. It's very unrelatable for me and, I assume, most of the tech world.
- imtringued 4y ago
  It's still company time. You don't get to play video games. The draining part is pretending to work. It's not like you get a private office and nobody ever sees you. You have to go the weekly meetings and tell them about how much you worked on X which you didn't. If you could convince the company to make you a part of a mini skunkworks team with the freedom to do anything as long as it benefits the company then I don't think anyone would object to it from a mental health perspective.
  - Fredej 4y ago
    > mini skunkworks team with the freedom to do anything as long as it benefits the company This is my lived reality right now. It's not necessarily super fun in the long run. It can get draining to work on new thing after new thing, only for it to get shut down because it doesn't _quite_ fit the company strategy or they can't find anywhere internally to anchor it. Plenty of good ideas have died that way. That said, I think it also heavily depends on the company. If the work you're doing is directly feeding into the development pipeline, it sounds like fucking heaven. Mine, however, is not.
- ChuckMcM 4y ago
  I hope that you reach this point (not having to work) sooner rather than later. It is funny though, the number of people I know who got there and then went back to work for "the man" again. Not for the money, but for having people they could hang out with and talk about things with. They sometimes find happiness working for a company where they have the freedom to be completely honest because "losing your job" isn't a threat that bothers them. In the US managing health care is annoying, of course if you can live without working in the US then you can likely live as an ex-pat in a country that has decent health care included. It has its own set of tradeoffs (languages, community, Etc.) And for some the "little goals" start to feel dishonest, kind of like knowing that you could do "anything" with your remaining life and you are doing little goals you made up for "fun." I know it doesn't sit well with people who were raised to "make a difference" and "be the change." Giving back can be rewarding, mentoring younger people, people who are coming up the ladder. Working with organizations staffed with volunteers brings its own set of quirks. Sometimes "prima donna" doesn't quite capture it :-). At some point you really internalize "hmm, I'm going to be dead and do I care what others think of how I spent these years?" Facing mortality sometimes re-arranges what is, and what is not, important to you. Depending on how close one sees the "finish line" that can be either empowering or depressing. Often a little of both.
smaudet 4y ago
If you have something to do the job is worthwhile. If its busywork, at least you get paid. If you don't have either of those things, the boss/work is not worth anyone's time, you're better of taking training and quitting. Meanwhile hopefully the market/regulation sorts itself, and your boss loses his job, because someone does something worthwhile elsewhere.
JakeTheAndroid 4y ago
When I was a kid I went to work with my dad sometimes. He owned his own painting/handyman company. One of these work trips had a lot of work but very little an 11 year old could really do. I spent most of my day doing nothing, and it felt like the longest day of work in the world. I was tired, bored, and felt like I had actually worked all day. My dad said "sometimes having no work feels like more work doesn't it?" and honestly, yeah. Sometimes that really is the case. A few years ago I had a tech job where they straight up didn't have work for me to do. For the first month it was amazing. But after a few months a day of doing nothing was completely draining. And my dads words rang in my head again, and I was like damn that as true now as it was when I was 11. Doing nothing is shockingly hard mentally. We need to be engaged in stuff day to day, and without that engagement it seems like we spend a lot of energy trying to find something to do.
- cowvin 4y ago
  I was a summer intern at a big defense company for one of my first summer jobs. They gave me some fairly simple work but not enough to fill my day. I ended up reading a lot of books for a large chunk of my day. =/

by hbn 4y ago

rgifford 4y ago

I guess it's all relative. To be honest, I would be over the moon to never "work" again. Don't wanna be needed, don't wanna have to report to anyone, don't wanna be part of a pyramid scheme earning some CEO or founder 50% of company payroll. I could very happily set and achieve little goals for the rest of my life -- in video games, education, little creative pursuits, and hobbies -- and never once look back. Really don't care for externally set goals or validation.

xboxnolifes 4y ago
I agree with you, but I also feel there is a huge difference between not working and doing nothing at work. The latter is way more draining to me.
- cm2012 4y ago
  Yeah it's the middle area that's a killer.
- theonething 4y ago
  Yes, the latter has a big guilt factor involved which for me, weighs me down heavily.
- rgifford 4y ago
  Yeah, bullshitting is draining. I wonder, why? Sisyphus was condemned to aimlessly push a rock forever, but isn't that basically just the human condition? Most of us convince ourselves we're doing something, but it's narrative. Very little materializes, very rarely as intended. We like feedback and certainty in the face of randomness -- it's the attraction to slot machines. But musicians rarely predict their most popular songs (and sometimes come to hate 'em), founders toil away pivoting for years before they stumble on something that works (but most give up first), artists often only have their work recognized posthumously. I'm drawn to characters like Jerry in Parks and Rec or Stanley in the Office because they embrace the rock. They aren't revolutionizing or disrupting. In a certain way they're really very heroic. They meet the soul-crushing apathy and uncertainty of their place in the universe head on without complaints, excuses or lies. Though mocked and derided as lazy, incompetent fools they steadily carry on. They're stoics in a modern bureaucratic context. And really there's a certain beautiful zen to that. It's very unrelatable for me and, I assume, most of the tech world.
imtringued 4y ago
It's still company time. You don't get to play video games. The draining part is pretending to work. It's not like you get a private office and nobody ever sees you. You have to go the weekly meetings and tell them about how much you worked on X which you didn't. If you could convince the company to make you a part of a mini skunkworks team with the freedom to do anything as long as it benefits the company then I don't think anyone would object to it from a mental health perspective.
- Fredej 4y ago
  > mini skunkworks team with the freedom to do anything as long as it benefits the company This is my lived reality right now. It's not necessarily super fun in the long run. It can get draining to work on new thing after new thing, only for it to get shut down because it doesn't _quite_ fit the company strategy or they can't find anywhere internally to anchor it. Plenty of good ideas have died that way. That said, I think it also heavily depends on the company. If the work you're doing is directly feeding into the development pipeline, it sounds like fucking heaven. Mine, however, is not.
ChuckMcM 4y ago
I hope that you reach this point (not having to work) sooner rather than later. It is funny though, the number of people I know who got there and then went back to work for "the man" again. Not for the money, but for having people they could hang out with and talk about things with. They sometimes find happiness working for a company where they have the freedom to be completely honest because "losing your job" isn't a threat that bothers them. In the US managing health care is annoying, of course if you can live without working in the US then you can likely live as an ex-pat in a country that has decent health care included. It has its own set of tradeoffs (languages, community, Etc.) And for some the "little goals" start to feel dishonest, kind of like knowing that you could do "anything" with your remaining life and you are doing little goals you made up for "fun." I know it doesn't sit well with people who were raised to "make a difference" and "be the change." Giving back can be rewarding, mentoring younger people, people who are coming up the ladder. Working with organizations staffed with volunteers brings its own set of quirks. Sometimes "prima donna" doesn't quite capture it :-). At some point you really internalize "hmm, I'm going to be dead and do I care what others think of how I spent these years?" Facing mortality sometimes re-arranges what is, and what is not, important to you. Depending on how close one sees the "finish line" that can be either empowering or depressing. Often a little of both.

smaudet 4y ago

If you have something to do the job is worthwhile. If its busywork, at least you get paid. If you don't have either of those things, the boss/work is not worth anyone's time, you're better of taking training and quitting. Meanwhile hopefully the market/regulation sorts itself, and your boss loses his job, because someone does something worthwhile elsewhere.

JakeTheAndroid 4y ago

When I was a kid I went to work with my dad sometimes. He owned his own painting/handyman company. One of these work trips had a lot of work but very little an 11 year old could really do. I spent most of my day doing nothing, and it felt like the longest day of work in the world. I was tired, bored, and felt like I had actually worked all day. My dad said "sometimes having no work feels like more work doesn't it?" and honestly, yeah. Sometimes that really is the case. A few years ago I had a tech job where they straight up didn't have work for me to do. For the first month it was amazing. But after a few months a day of doing nothing was completely draining. And my dads words rang in my head again, and I was like damn that as true now as it was when I was 11. Doing nothing is shockingly hard mentally. We need to be engaged in stuff day to day, and without that engagement it seems like we spend a lot of energy trying to find something to do.

cowvin 4y ago
I was a summer intern at a big defense company for one of my first summer jobs. They gave me some fairly simple work but not enough to fill my day. I ended up reading a lot of books for a large chunk of my day. =/