4 ms·

I've also had multiple stability issues, especially across dist upgrades. It seems like such a great option until you try to use it for work, and then it quickl

I've also had multiple stability issues, especially across dist upgrades. It seems like such a great option until you try to use it for work, and then it quickly degenerates at a speed worse than windows.

PenguinCoder 4y ago
Anecdote. Mine is, I don't have any issues doing work on Linux, and it is _much faster_ than Windows, from basic tasks like opening an app, to RUNNING GAMES. Windows is user hostile and God awful slow in comparison.
- parker_mountain 4y ago
  Anecdote. Every time linux desktop comes up, there are tons of people having issues. Meanwhile, I can point to material improvements Microsoft has made to the windows core that mitigate many of these complaints - improvements that landed in both 10 and 11, and that simply don't exist on the Linux desktop. Simply put, the Linux desktop is hardly anywhere close to prime time. Efforts from Valve and Canonical have gone a long way in the last few years to catch up, but it's hardly a "done deal".
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    What's missing? I can think of a few regressions added in Windows 11. But I can't think of any major features KDE/Gnome on a modern distro lack that Windows/MacOS have.
    - tapoxi 4y ago
      HDR support is prettu important for gaming. Win11 has Auto HDR to convert SDR content too.
    - parker_mountain 4y ago
      - Image based installs (this is actually pretty huge, it means you can recover an existing system very easily, and nothing like it exists in the linux world) - HDR support. Full stop. - Multi monitor / multi resolution support (yes, they support it on paper but in reality it's lacking) - Multi vendor GPU support - my igr is amd, my external is nvidia - Hibernate mode (very rough support on linux, still even today!) - I have never gotten video to play without tearing, over 15 solid years of using linux on the desktop as a side box on bare metal. Please someone tell me what I'm doing wrong. - Thunderbolt networking - I recently installed ubuntu lts and then ran updates, and then the machine refused to boot. That was very cool! and as far as niceties go, Win11 adds excellent tiling support, a better control panel, better network drive integration, and a more clear filesystem exposure for devices - network or otherwise. I have a very long list of additional deficiencies. And yes, I am very disappointed with Win11. I'm still on 10 for my main machine. I keep giving desktop linux a shot and running into massive, deal-breaking issues. Frankly, I'm sick of microsoft's incompetence but their technical foundation is still, even now, strong than desktop linux's. I would like nothing more than to ditch microsoft, but every time I try, it's nothing but dead ends. I use ubuntu via VM frequently, including hosting my dev env - I wish it was the host. FWIW my second machine is a ubuntu lts desktop machine, I have only had a few dist upgrades work flawlessly in my 15 years of running it. I gave up a long time ago and blow it away when LTS support ends.
      - goosedragons 4y ago
        Some of these are Nvidia issues. HDR and TB networking are valid, I forgot about HDR since my monitor is so bad at it that it was a must turn off feature that actively ruins the experience rather than enhance it. For image based installs, it is possible to customize distro installers. Cubic is a tool to do so for Ubuntu/Debian based distros for example. And with NixOS or Guix you can do some pretty crazy stuff which don't have any compliment in the Windows world.
        parker_mountain 4y ago
        > Some of these are Nvidia issues As unfair as it seems, they are desktop linux issues, not Nvidia issues. If your OS does not work with the most popular discrete graphics solution, it's a "you" problem. Like I said, completely unfair :) Speaking of which, the windows graphics subsystem is light years ahead of anything on the linux desktop. It can handle a driver AND card kernel crash, restart the card, and your system keeps running. It's actually very impressive. > Cubic That is installing with a disk image, which is a different thing than an image based install (Windows DISM). > NixOS or Guix This is much closer to the reproducible install mechanism windows has, although still has some key deficiencies (and key benefits that windows doesn't have!). I think this is the future, but IME is not completely ready for casual desktop use.
  - trinsic2 4y ago
    "Simply put, the Linux desktop is hardly anywhere close to prime time." Yeah I am going to have to disagree with you there. Been running PopOS for a year and its pretty close to were it needs to be.
    - parker_mountain 4y ago
      Plug an XPS 15 with 4k display into an external 120hz 1440p monitor and watch the sparks fly. Among many other issues. Absolutely not anywhere close where it needs to be.
      - trinsic2 4y ago
        I hear you in your belief. Everyone experiences different levels of stability depending on the many circumstances
        parker_mountain 4y ago
        Using the most lauded distro, plugging a very common model of laptop into an external display (very common activity), and having it crash is inexcusable. That is not an OS that can be used for day-to-day work. I hear YOU in YOUR belief that desktop linux is stable and ready for primetime. Maybe some day that'll be true. I think it'll probably be sooner than I think, but it's not there yet. Desktop linux still has tons of rough edges, weird glitches, and is still quite buggy the second you take it out of the rather narrowly defined "best hardware" list. It's come a long way, but even the teams building these distros have their own "100 papercuts" lists, and the stuff on there is pretty low hanging fruit, even today.
ElectricalUnion 4y ago
> it quickly degenerates at a speed worse than windows. I think you underestimate how fast a Windows install gets slow and bloated. On the GNU/Linux side I have this experience when I need to use Nvidia stuff. Nvidia open source community modules sucks because they're on-purpose limited by Nvidia firmware. Nvidia proprietary modules take forever to compile and install, and will break your system every time updates are force-interrupted by any reason.
- jaredhallen 4y ago
  > I think you underestimate how fast a Windows install gets slow and bloated. I love my Linux, but I just can't agree with this argument against modern Windows. The Windows installation on my desktop at work dates back to the original release of Windows 10, back in 2015 or so. It's had the guts upgraded twice (motherboard, CPU, ram). It still runs great.
- parker_mountain 4y ago
  >I think you underestimate how fast a Windows install gets slow and bloated. In my many years of experience, I have found desktop linux to be even worse. Frankly, I'm annoyed this is a problem on any OS. App containers are the way forward, and snapd is terrible (firefox updates, for example, are awful)
trinsic2 4y ago
Im using PopOS(LTS) for work and its been working for me for a year, a few issues that I had to deal with but nothing crazy.

PenguinCoder 4y ago

Anecdote. Mine is, I don't have any issues doing work on Linux, and it is _much faster_ than Windows, from basic tasks like opening an app, to RUNNING GAMES. Windows is user hostile and God awful slow in comparison.

parker_mountain 4y ago
Anecdote. Every time linux desktop comes up, there are tons of people having issues. Meanwhile, I can point to material improvements Microsoft has made to the windows core that mitigate many of these complaints - improvements that landed in both 10 and 11, and that simply don't exist on the Linux desktop. Simply put, the Linux desktop is hardly anywhere close to prime time. Efforts from Valve and Canonical have gone a long way in the last few years to catch up, but it's hardly a "done deal".
- goosedragons 4y ago
  What's missing? I can think of a few regressions added in Windows 11. But I can't think of any major features KDE/Gnome on a modern distro lack that Windows/MacOS have.
  - tapoxi 4y ago
    HDR support is prettu important for gaming. Win11 has Auto HDR to convert SDR content too.
  - parker_mountain 4y ago
    - Image based installs (this is actually pretty huge, it means you can recover an existing system very easily, and nothing like it exists in the linux world) - HDR support. Full stop. - Multi monitor / multi resolution support (yes, they support it on paper but in reality it's lacking) - Multi vendor GPU support - my igr is amd, my external is nvidia - Hibernate mode (very rough support on linux, still even today!) - I have never gotten video to play without tearing, over 15 solid years of using linux on the desktop as a side box on bare metal. Please someone tell me what I'm doing wrong. - Thunderbolt networking - I recently installed ubuntu lts and then ran updates, and then the machine refused to boot. That was very cool! and as far as niceties go, Win11 adds excellent tiling support, a better control panel, better network drive integration, and a more clear filesystem exposure for devices - network or otherwise. I have a very long list of additional deficiencies. And yes, I am very disappointed with Win11. I'm still on 10 for my main machine. I keep giving desktop linux a shot and running into massive, deal-breaking issues. Frankly, I'm sick of microsoft's incompetence but their technical foundation is still, even now, strong than desktop linux's. I would like nothing more than to ditch microsoft, but every time I try, it's nothing but dead ends. I use ubuntu via VM frequently, including hosting my dev env - I wish it was the host. FWIW my second machine is a ubuntu lts desktop machine, I have only had a few dist upgrades work flawlessly in my 15 years of running it. I gave up a long time ago and blow it away when LTS support ends.
    - goosedragons 4y ago
      Some of these are Nvidia issues. HDR and TB networking are valid, I forgot about HDR since my monitor is so bad at it that it was a must turn off feature that actively ruins the experience rather than enhance it. For image based installs, it is possible to customize distro installers. Cubic is a tool to do so for Ubuntu/Debian based distros for example. And with NixOS or Guix you can do some pretty crazy stuff which don't have any compliment in the Windows world.
      - parker_mountain 4y ago
        > Some of these are Nvidia issues As unfair as it seems, they are desktop linux issues, not Nvidia issues. If your OS does not work with the most popular discrete graphics solution, it's a "you" problem. Like I said, completely unfair :) Speaking of which, the windows graphics subsystem is light years ahead of anything on the linux desktop. It can handle a driver AND card kernel crash, restart the card, and your system keeps running. It's actually very impressive. > Cubic That is installing with a disk image, which is a different thing than an image based install (Windows DISM). > NixOS or Guix This is much closer to the reproducible install mechanism windows has, although still has some key deficiencies (and key benefits that windows doesn't have!). I think this is the future, but IME is not completely ready for casual desktop use.
- trinsic2 4y ago
  "Simply put, the Linux desktop is hardly anywhere close to prime time." Yeah I am going to have to disagree with you there. Been running PopOS for a year and its pretty close to were it needs to be.
  - parker_mountain 4y ago
    Plug an XPS 15 with 4k display into an external 120hz 1440p monitor and watch the sparks fly. Among many other issues. Absolutely not anywhere close where it needs to be.
    - trinsic2 4y ago
      I hear you in your belief. Everyone experiences different levels of stability depending on the many circumstances
      - parker_mountain 4y ago
        Using the most lauded distro, plugging a very common model of laptop into an external display (very common activity), and having it crash is inexcusable. That is not an OS that can be used for day-to-day work. I hear YOU in YOUR belief that desktop linux is stable and ready for primetime. Maybe some day that'll be true. I think it'll probably be sooner than I think, but it's not there yet. Desktop linux still has tons of rough edges, weird glitches, and is still quite buggy the second you take it out of the rather narrowly defined "best hardware" list. It's come a long way, but even the teams building these distros have their own "100 papercuts" lists, and the stuff on there is pretty low hanging fruit, even today.

ElectricalUnion 4y ago

> it quickly degenerates at a speed worse than windows. I think you underestimate how fast a Windows install gets slow and bloated. On the GNU/Linux side I have this experience when I need to use Nvidia stuff. Nvidia open source community modules sucks because they're on-purpose limited by Nvidia firmware. Nvidia proprietary modules take forever to compile and install, and will break your system every time updates are force-interrupted by any reason.

jaredhallen 4y ago
> I think you underestimate how fast a Windows install gets slow and bloated. I love my Linux, but I just can't agree with this argument against modern Windows. The Windows installation on my desktop at work dates back to the original release of Windows 10, back in 2015 or so. It's had the guts upgraded twice (motherboard, CPU, ram). It still runs great.
parker_mountain 4y ago
>I think you underestimate how fast a Windows install gets slow and bloated. In my many years of experience, I have found desktop linux to be even worse. Frankly, I'm annoyed this is a problem on any OS. App containers are the way forward, and snapd is terrible (firefox updates, for example, are awful)

trinsic2 4y ago

Im using PopOS(LTS) for work and its been working for me for a year, a few issues that I had to deal with but nothing crazy.