10 ms·

So what is wrong with this? I am assuming it only takes soft plastic but still why we don't see widespread use of it.

wheels 4y ago
I'm guessing the answer is, "Because you can already burn the plastic directly." Presumably burning this oil would have the same levels of pollution as burning the plastic in the first place, but also takes extra energy to produce.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  Other than if you have a Mr Fusion you can’t run a car off of solid plastics. But, I assume some additional steps are required to make it usable. The site doesn’t detail the possible uses of the the oil, but generally liquids and solids can be used in different situations. The oil could also be used as lubricant rather than an energy source.
  - naravara 4y ago
    I don't know if most households have enough use for lubricants to be able to consume a quantity equivalent to 80% of the volume of plastics they're disposing of. My door hinges and bike-chains can only be so smooth. Even if it was converting it into usable motor-oil (which I doubt it is) I don't think I could consume that much. I suppose if it's usable for a kerosine type of lamp maybe, but is it pure enough to not present respiratory issues? And why would I need a kerosine lamp?
    - fnordpiglet 4y ago
      Yeah I don’t think it’s the next Nespresso and they probably need to detail the use cases better. But I can see this useful in a machinist shop that might have a lot of waste plastic from packing materials etc.
    - finnh 4y ago
      Airplanes run off kerosene, so that's a sizeable market if this fuel is good enough
      - jandrese 4y ago
        No chance the FAA lets people use homemade recycled plastic oil in their turbojet engines. Jet turbines are very tolerant of different fuels, but this is a bridge too far.
    - jhoechtl 4y ago
      Many people still have ICE cars, you left that intentionally out?
      - naravara 4y ago
        I mentioned motor oil
      - jandrese 4y ago
        No way I'm trusting oil made from random household waste plastic as the primary lubricant in my car engine. What are the lubricating properties? What are the breakdown characteristics? High temperature resilience? Presumably it would vary by batch. You are just begging for a seized engine.
  - SigmundA 4y ago
    An electric car can, in my area they burn garbage for electricity: https://pinellas.gov/waste-to-energy-facility/ https://pinellas.gov/waste-to-energy-facility/
  - luxoramonrising 4y ago
    Flammable lubes are a big no no
    - fnordpiglet 4y ago
      They don’t detail much about the properties of the oil produced
- actionfromafar 4y ago
  Also, plastics can contain all sorts of nasty toxic surprises. Better to burn it at a centralized location with proper filtering and treatment than having little batches or mystery oil of varying quality and toxicity.
  - AuthorizedCust 4y ago
    > Better to burn it at a centralized location with proper filtering and treatment than having little batches or mystery oil of varying quality and toxicity. If we can assure that the output meets a standard should we burn it, then certainly we should be able to assure the output meets a standard should we refine/convert it.
    - beanjuice 4y ago
      And the conversion of plastic into oil will have cost much more energy, producing the same pollution in the end.
      - flavius29663 4y ago
        But at least we save some landfill space. Also micro-plastics contamination is everywhere.
        AuthorizedCust 4y ago
        In the USA, landfill space concerns are based on a hoax. Landfill space is a function of landfill development, and there’s no shortage of spaces to create landfills.
        flavius29663 4y ago
        I am not talking about running out of space in general. I am talking about taking a hill covered with trees or farms, and turning it into a hill of garbage. Surely you can see why I would prefer a natural hill? If you can burn it, there is no point in burring it. We're still taking a lot of stuff from underground and burn it for energy, why not burn the stuff we already have above ground?
- osigurdson 4y ago
  I don’t believe plastic burning is a widespread energy source.
  - mrpopo 4y ago
    Japan and I believe Singapore burn most of their plastic in incinerators to generate electricity. Coincidentally they are also among the highest plastic waste producers per capita.
    - throwaway2037 4y ago
      Korea, Taiwan, and Switzerland are similar.
  - elil17 4y ago
    It happens in waste-to-energy power plants (a.k.a garbage power plants). They can be a great way to get rid of waste but they require a lot of filtering of the exhaust to be safe. Adequate filtering is universal in some countries (like Sweden). In the USA, waste-to-energy plants frequently have inadequate filtering, which can make them dirtier than coal plants.
    - cassepipe 4y ago
      Do you know if they have to reach a certain temperature ? I would think so because I assumme garbage produces a lot of fumes and gases that would better off burned for energy rather that ending in the air. On the other end I wonder what kind of temperature you can get with a dumpster fire
      - fomine3 4y ago
        Incinerators in Japan must be above 800C to avoid generating toxic materials like dioxins. https://www.env.go.jp/content/900453393.pdf https://www.env.go.jp/content/900453393.pdf
    - jhoechtl 4y ago
      > In the USA, waste-to-energy plants frequently have inadequate filtering, which can make them dirtier than coal plants. Source? With EPA being so rigid about diesel cars it would doubt that. Unless the whole regulation was about keeping german car manufacturers in cheque...
- kortex 4y ago
  I imagine it's easier to purify the oil and burn the oil with high efficiency, than to burn solid garbage and filter the flue gas.
  - jandrese 4y ago
    Presumably the noxious byproducts are released during the oil recycling process? It would explain where all of that missing mass went. But if this is the case you'll still need to filter the gas so there is little benefit.
LatteLazy 4y ago
I think the oil it produced would be worth about £0.25 (GBP) (400ml assuming the price is the same as Brent crude and ignoring the cost of the input plastic or the machine itself etc). But the power to run it (3kWh) would cost about £1 (1GBP) at current rates at least here in the UK. I might be wrong, I'm not sure whether the oil produced is equivalent to Brent crude (I picked it at random) or more valuable or less...
- ozim 4y ago
  Still might make sense when solar/wind is at peak to make it as a longer time storage? While still getting rid of plastic waste.
  - actionfromafar 4y ago
    But of what use is that mystery oil? All current petroluem products are highly quality controlled, both for lubrication and use in engines. You didn't get rid of the plastic, you converted it into a liquid which you must now dispose of safely. The only upside I see is that the plastic won't litter and turn into micro plastics in the ocean, but since it's already collected, then burn in a central plant ASAP IMHO.
    - layer8 4y ago
      > But of what use is that mystery oil? You can probably power the next few runs of the machine with it.
    - eloff 4y ago
      You could probably use it in a diesel engine. People filter used frying oil from restaurants and run their diesels on that.
      - actionfromafar 4y ago
        Yes, you absolutely can, especially in an old diesel engine, they can run on all kinds of oil. But the engine might not fare well, depending on the properties of the oil, and the exhaust might contain "interesting" stuff like dioxins, depending on what was in the mystery plastic to begin with.
headcanon 4y ago
I would imagine that its not economically viable at scale. First, it might be too energy-intensive for the value of the end product, and second, the plastic you can get is still the plastic that you're able to separate from trash, which it might be better to just recycle it normally. These are just peanut-gallery guesses though, I don't know for sure.
pfdietz 4y ago
The very small scale ensures it isn't economical. If thermal decomposition of plastic is to be worthwhile, it would be on the scale of oil refineries (which it would likely resemble.) It might be worthwhile to separate plastics now, not for conversion now, but to stockpile for later processing by this or other means. Just put the stuff in plastics-only landfills designed to ease later mining. Fixed carbon will be more valuable after fossil fuel use ends.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

I'm guessing the answer is, "Because you can already burn the plastic directly." Presumably burning this oil would have the same levels of pollution as burning the plastic in the first place, but also takes extra energy to produce.

fnordpiglet 4y ago
Other than if you have a Mr Fusion you can’t run a car off of solid plastics. But, I assume some additional steps are required to make it usable. The site doesn’t detail the possible uses of the the oil, but generally liquids and solids can be used in different situations. The oil could also be used as lubricant rather than an energy source.
- naravara 4y ago
  I don't know if most households have enough use for lubricants to be able to consume a quantity equivalent to 80% of the volume of plastics they're disposing of. My door hinges and bike-chains can only be so smooth. Even if it was converting it into usable motor-oil (which I doubt it is) I don't think I could consume that much. I suppose if it's usable for a kerosine type of lamp maybe, but is it pure enough to not present respiratory issues? And why would I need a kerosine lamp?
  - fnordpiglet 4y ago
    Yeah I don’t think it’s the next Nespresso and they probably need to detail the use cases better. But I can see this useful in a machinist shop that might have a lot of waste plastic from packing materials etc.
  - finnh 4y ago
    Airplanes run off kerosene, so that's a sizeable market if this fuel is good enough
    - jandrese 4y ago
      No chance the FAA lets people use homemade recycled plastic oil in their turbojet engines. Jet turbines are very tolerant of different fuels, but this is a bridge too far.
  - jhoechtl 4y ago
    Many people still have ICE cars, you left that intentionally out?
    - naravara 4y ago
      I mentioned motor oil
    - jandrese 4y ago
      No way I'm trusting oil made from random household waste plastic as the primary lubricant in my car engine. What are the lubricating properties? What are the breakdown characteristics? High temperature resilience? Presumably it would vary by batch. You are just begging for a seized engine.
- SigmundA 4y ago
  An electric car can, in my area they burn garbage for electricity: https://pinellas.gov/waste-to-energy-facility/ https://pinellas.gov/waste-to-energy-facility/
- luxoramonrising 4y ago
  Flammable lubes are a big no no
  - fnordpiglet 4y ago
    They don’t detail much about the properties of the oil produced
actionfromafar 4y ago
Also, plastics can contain all sorts of nasty toxic surprises. Better to burn it at a centralized location with proper filtering and treatment than having little batches or mystery oil of varying quality and toxicity.
- AuthorizedCust 4y ago
  > Better to burn it at a centralized location with proper filtering and treatment than having little batches or mystery oil of varying quality and toxicity. If we can assure that the output meets a standard should we burn it, then certainly we should be able to assure the output meets a standard should we refine/convert it.
  - beanjuice 4y ago
    And the conversion of plastic into oil will have cost much more energy, producing the same pollution in the end.
    - flavius29663 4y ago
      But at least we save some landfill space. Also micro-plastics contamination is everywhere.
      - AuthorizedCust 4y ago
        In the USA, landfill space concerns are based on a hoax. Landfill space is a function of landfill development, and there’s no shortage of spaces to create landfills.
        flavius29663 4y ago
        I am not talking about running out of space in general. I am talking about taking a hill covered with trees or farms, and turning it into a hill of garbage. Surely you can see why I would prefer a natural hill? If you can burn it, there is no point in burring it. We're still taking a lot of stuff from underground and burn it for energy, why not burn the stuff we already have above ground?
osigurdson 4y ago
I don’t believe plastic burning is a widespread energy source.
- mrpopo 4y ago
  Japan and I believe Singapore burn most of their plastic in incinerators to generate electricity. Coincidentally they are also among the highest plastic waste producers per capita.
  - throwaway2037 4y ago
    Korea, Taiwan, and Switzerland are similar.
- elil17 4y ago
  It happens in waste-to-energy power plants (a.k.a garbage power plants). They can be a great way to get rid of waste but they require a lot of filtering of the exhaust to be safe. Adequate filtering is universal in some countries (like Sweden). In the USA, waste-to-energy plants frequently have inadequate filtering, which can make them dirtier than coal plants.
  - cassepipe 4y ago
    Do you know if they have to reach a certain temperature ? I would think so because I assumme garbage produces a lot of fumes and gases that would better off burned for energy rather that ending in the air. On the other end I wonder what kind of temperature you can get with a dumpster fire
    - fomine3 4y ago
      Incinerators in Japan must be above 800C to avoid generating toxic materials like dioxins. https://www.env.go.jp/content/900453393.pdf https://www.env.go.jp/content/900453393.pdf
  - jhoechtl 4y ago
    > In the USA, waste-to-energy plants frequently have inadequate filtering, which can make them dirtier than coal plants. Source? With EPA being so rigid about diesel cars it would doubt that. Unless the whole regulation was about keeping german car manufacturers in cheque...
kortex 4y ago
I imagine it's easier to purify the oil and burn the oil with high efficiency, than to burn solid garbage and filter the flue gas.
- jandrese 4y ago
  Presumably the noxious byproducts are released during the oil recycling process? It would explain where all of that missing mass went. But if this is the case you'll still need to filter the gas so there is little benefit.

LatteLazy 4y ago

I think the oil it produced would be worth about £0.25 (GBP) (400ml assuming the price is the same as Brent crude and ignoring the cost of the input plastic or the machine itself etc). But the power to run it (3kWh) would cost about £1 (1GBP) at current rates at least here in the UK. I might be wrong, I'm not sure whether the oil produced is equivalent to Brent crude (I picked it at random) or more valuable or less...

ozim 4y ago
Still might make sense when solar/wind is at peak to make it as a longer time storage? While still getting rid of plastic waste.
- actionfromafar 4y ago
  But of what use is that mystery oil? All current petroluem products are highly quality controlled, both for lubrication and use in engines. You didn't get rid of the plastic, you converted it into a liquid which you must now dispose of safely. The only upside I see is that the plastic won't litter and turn into micro plastics in the ocean, but since it's already collected, then burn in a central plant ASAP IMHO.
  - layer8 4y ago
    > But of what use is that mystery oil? You can probably power the next few runs of the machine with it.
  - eloff 4y ago
    You could probably use it in a diesel engine. People filter used frying oil from restaurants and run their diesels on that.
    - actionfromafar 4y ago
      Yes, you absolutely can, especially in an old diesel engine, they can run on all kinds of oil. But the engine might not fare well, depending on the properties of the oil, and the exhaust might contain "interesting" stuff like dioxins, depending on what was in the mystery plastic to begin with.

headcanon 4y ago

I would imagine that its not economically viable at scale. First, it might be too energy-intensive for the value of the end product, and second, the plastic you can get is still the plastic that you're able to separate from trash, which it might be better to just recycle it normally. These are just peanut-gallery guesses though, I don't know for sure.

pfdietz 4y ago

The very small scale ensures it isn't economical. If thermal decomposition of plastic is to be worthwhile, it would be on the scale of oil refineries (which it would likely resemble.) It might be worthwhile to separate plastics now, not for conversion now, but to stockpile for later processing by this or other means. Just put the stuff in plastics-only landfills designed to ease later mining. Fixed carbon will be more valuable after fossil fuel use ends.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]